Princess Great Lakes Cruises

[CineGraphic]

If priced right, I would LOVE to cruise the great lakes.

[Woobstr112G]

As an aficionado of the Great lakes region and it's historical significance princess will have a winner if this comes to fruition matching the cruise with the correct princess ship. Proximity of Eastern and Midwestern cities......,ports of call........makes this a winner...sign me up!!!...who else is tired of the Caribbean and Mediterranean?

 

Such blasphemy, I would book a western med cruise every year if DW would let me.....:D:D:D

 

Bob

[chrysalis]

We spend the summers on our boat in Little Current, Manitoulin Island, Lake Huron (one of the Great Lakes), and see every few days the cruise ships Victory 1 or the Pearl Mist arriving at our port to spend the day. They sail between Toronto and Chicago and have done so for a few summers now, and are sailing full. The company that owns them, announced last summer that they are building a Victory 11 to circumnavigate Lake Superior, with a stop in Thunder Bay.

 

Another ship will also make a visit....

 

http://www.manitoulin.ca/2017/04/05/little-current-will-see-24-visits-three-cruise-ships-season/

[skynight]

I would like a Great Lakes itinerary. I don't believe it would be in 2018. The Pacific Princess is scheduled to be in Europe. Maybe 2019. I don't see PVSA problems. A one way cruise could embark for example at Toronto and disembark at Chicago. You could also book b2b RT Toronto. No PVSA issues there. Also available would be RT's from any U.S. Great Lakes port as long as there is a port of call in Canada. I do wonder how many potential ports of call have proper dock facilities for a 30 ton cruise ship. But, I guess that is for Princess operations to figure out.

[PescadoAmarillo]

Not sure how the PVSA would be an issue.

 

The cruise could start and finish in a Canadian port. No PVSA involvement

 

The cruise could start in a U.S. port, finish in a Canadian port, Would be PVSA compliant.

 

The cruise could start in a Canadian port, finish in a U.S. port, would be PVSA compliant.

 

The cruise could start and finish in the same U.S. port, after calling at a Canadian port. Should be PVSA compliant.

 

Am I missing something here ?

The bolded is what had me confused. Duluth to Rochester with a stop in Toronto was my example of the above. I don’t believe it would be PVSA compliant.

 

 

And, as others have mentioned, the cruises that are now doing Great Lakes routes are very expensive. Friends were booked to go several years ago at a rate of over $600 per day per person and before they actually took the cruise, the company went out of business.

 

 

But sign me up as one who would love to do Cedar Point as a cruise ship excursion.

[chengkp75]

As noted above, Pacific Princess will not fit through the Welland locks, so that is a non-starter. I don't believe any of the current Princess ships would fit. In fact, I can't think of one of the major cruise lines' ships that would fit.

[RocketMan275]

A quick search says the Great Lakes are no different than ocean with regard to the PVSA. A cruise starting and ending in the same U.S. port will be legal provided there's a foreign (Canada) port call.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Doesn't the foreign port have to be a "distant" port?

[fishin' musician]

It doesn't make sense to me. They would have to completely reinvent their current business model. The ships currently sailing the great lakes are 100-200 passengers and average price is about $1k per day. Windstar or Sea Dream, maybe, but a mainstream line... why? how?

[fishin' musician]

Doesn't the foreign port have to be a "distant" port?

 

Are Vancouver or Ensenada "distant" ports?

[nukesubsailor]

I have read somewhere that cruise ship crew members sometimes tell false stories within the hearing of passengers just to entertain themselves.

We all know that Princess repositions ships as seasons change in order to keep the ships making money. If Princess was to build or buy a ship small enough to ply the Great Lakes, where would they reposition it to in the winter season where it would be profitable to have a small ship? The itineraries now done by American Cruise Lines come to mind. Would competition for those itineraries bring prices down?

[skynight]

Hi,we did the Coral repo last year from Whittier to FL.It consisted of 3 cruises Whit. to Van. Van. to LA and LA to FL.We must have been booked from Van. to FL as 1 cruise because we had no probs.When we tried to book this on the Star the previous year the FCC said it was not possible.We got back to UK and booked it with our PCC at Southampton with no probs.As you guys say "go figure",cheers,Brian.

In this example you are sailing from Whittier to Fort Lauderdale which will contain one or more o port stops at a defined distant foreign port, either Cartagena, Colombia or one or of the A,B,C islands. You would not be able to board in Whittier and disembark in L.A.

[skynight]

As noted above, Pacific Princess will not fit through the Welland locks, so that is a non-starter. I don't believe any of the current Princess ships would fit. In fact, I can't think of one of the major cruise lines' ships that would fit.

Yes, the length is fine, but the locks are only 80 feet wide. The Pacific Princess in 83 1/2 feet. This discussion is finalized.

[RocketMan275]

Are Vancouver or Ensenada "distant" ports?

No.

 

Ensenada,Mexico is a “nearby foreign port” pursuant to the CBP regulations. A “nearby foreignport” is defined as "any port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, orthe West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands ofthe Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).

[chengkp75]

A quick search says the Great Lakes are no different than ocean with regard to the PVSA. A cruise starting and ending in the same U.S. port will be legal provided there's a foreign (Canada) port call.

 

sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Doesn't the foreign port have to be a "distant" port?

 

No, if the cruise is "closed loop" (as lstone says; "starting and ending in the same US port", then only a near foreign port is required. If it is an "open jaw" cruise that starts in one US port and ends in another US port, then a "distant" foreign port is required. Closed loop cruises on the Great Lakes would be fine with only a port call in Canada.

[Jersey42]

Not sure how the PVSA would be an issue.

 

1. The cruise could start and finish in a Canadian port. No PVSA involvement

2. The cruise could start in a U.S. port, finish in a Canadian port, Would be PVSA compliant.

3. The cruise could start in a Canadian port, finish in a U.S. port, would be PVSA compliant.

4. The cruise could start and finish in the same U.S. port, after calling at a Canadian port.

 

Should be PVSA compliant.

 

The bolded is what had me confused. Duluth to Rochester with a stop in Toronto was my example of the above. I don’t believe it would be PVSA compliant.

 

WpgCruise has this down correctly. PescadoAmarillo's example does not match any of the four options. Duluth and Rochester are two different US ports so # 4 does not apply. But Duluth to Duluth with a stop in Toronto would be OK.

 

The only way you can cruise between two different US ports is if there is a stop at a DISTANT foreign port. In the Americas, a distant foreign port would mean South America, Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Jersey42
typo

[geocruiser]

Port of Rochester you (as of now) can only tender in. Rochester doesn't have too many tourist attraction. Off the top of my head, Susan B Anthony house, an art museum or two, a good golf course (Oak Hill). You can hop a small boat from one of the suburb and go for a ride on the Eire Canal and go through some of the locks. And outside of the city you can get to some wine country.

[Pam in CA]

Hi,we did the Coral repo last year from Whittier to FL.It consisted of 3 cruises Whit. to Van. Van. to LA and LA to FL.We must have been booked from Van. to FL as 1 cruise because we had no probs.When we tried to book this on the Star the previous year the FCC said it was not possible.We got back to UK and booked it with our PCC at Southampton with no probs.As you guys say "go figure",cheers,Brian.

Easy answer: the LA to FL cruise always includes a stop in Aruba and/or Cartagena which are “far” foreign ports. That’s what made your B2B2B legal. If you’d booked Whittier to Vancouver and then Vancouver to LA, that wouldn’t have been legal as there was no “far”foreign port. Canada, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean are not “far” foreign ports. Aruba and South America are.

 

FYI, you should get credit for three cruises even though you booked the B2B2B as one cruise.

[Colorado Coasty]

One of my favorite trips (many, many years ago) was a cadet cruise through the St. Lawrence seaway and the Great Lakes. I hope this comes to pass.

[geocruiser]

One of my favorite trips (many, many years ago) was a cadet cruise through the St. Lawrence seaway and the Great Lakes. I hope this comes to pass.

Your cruise that you took sounds wonderful. I would love to do something like that on Princess.

[chengkp75]

Your cruise that you took sounds wonderful. I would love to do something like that on Princess.

 

I doubt you'd think a cadet training "cruise" would be wonderful. Most training ship accommodations make cruise ship crew accommodations seem palatial.

[geocruiser]

I doubt you'd think a cadet training "cruise" would be wonderful. Most training ship accommodations make cruise ship crew accommodations seem palatial.

 

I would think it would be wonderful. Learning and serving is wonderful. Something that I wanted to do in my youth.

[PescadoAmarillo]

WpgCruise has this down correctly. PescadoAmarillo's example does not match any of the four options. Duluth and Rochester are two different US ports so # 4 does not apply. But Duluth to Duluth with a stop in Toronto would be OK.

 

The only way you can cruise between two different US ports is if there is a stop at a DISTANT foreign port. In the Americas, a distant foreign port would mean South America, Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao.

Thank you. Now I understand the difference. So that’s why the ships coming down from the North Atlantic to Fort Lauderdale start their repositioning cruise in Quebec City and not New York City. I see the light.

 

Still don’t see this in the works for Princess, though. It’s seasonal and lacks the ability to easily move the ship when the lakes ice over.

[lstone19]

Thank you. Now I understand the difference. So that’s why the ships coming down from the North Atlantic to Fort Lauderdale start their repositioning cruise in Quebec City and not New York City. I see the light.

 

 

For the most part, it comes down to three simple cases:

1) If the embarkation port or the disembarkation port is foreign, PVSA does not apply

2) If the embarkation port and the disembarkation port are the SAME U.S. port, then the cruise must call at ANY foreign port

3) If the embarkation port is a U.S. port and the disembarkation port is a DIFFERENT U.S. port, then the cruise must call at a DISTANT (as defined by the PVSA) foreign port.

 

As mentioned above, one of the Princess ships positions from Canada/New England to the Caribbean by doing a Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale one-way ("Case 1" as listed above). But the other (Regal) goes from New York to Ft. Lauderdale and to make it legal, it goes via one of the ABC islands (Bonaire this year I believe). The ABC islands are defined as DISTANT so makes this "Case 3" as I listed them above.

 

 

Still don’t see this in the works for Princess, though. It’s seasonal and lacks the ability to easily move the ship when the lakes ice over.

 

I agree. In addition, I do not see it fitting the Princess brand. If Carnival Corp. wants to enter this market, it would make more sense to do it under another brand or even a new brand. One of the biggest mistakes businesses can make is to try to extend a brand outside of what or where it does well and end up with the brand no longer meaning what it used to mean. Carnival Corp. has been smart and for the most part kept its brands (e.g. Carnival, Princess, HAL, Cunard) distinct - I no more want the Carnival experience on a Princess ship than a Carnival cruiser wants a Princess experience on a Carnival ship.

[myfuzzy]

We were talking to a ships captain a few years ago, and his take on the Great Lakes cruises were that they were so unstable with weather conditions, there time on the lakes would be limited to a couple of months. However, I do see that there is the America line that does the Hudson Valley......very expensive...I could drive that route on a couple tanks of gas.

[broberts]

The Welland Canal runs between Lake Ontario and Lake Erie. Unless the ship is built adjacent to Lake Ontario, a ship has to transit the St Lawrence Seaway locks. These locks have the same width restriction. http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/seaway/locks/index.html. This is the reason that Holland America stops in Quebec and Montreal but not Toronto.