Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

[Aquahound]

I think Mr. Ashford is off the mark.

 

My children are 40-something's. They are embarking on putting their children through college. One has a boat and keeps it in a slip at their yacht club. Likely the only boat they'll see anytime soon. Our other daughter enjoys travel...not cruising but land trips...to FL, to CA, etc. But for the next 10 to 15 years, they'll be paying college tuition. I find they are typical of their age group.

 

In addition, HAL has a reputation of being an "older folks cruise line". Therefore, I'd guess that if they wanted to cruise, it would be on Royal Caribbean or the like.

 

I don't think he's off the mark at all. The thing is, the lines that typically attract 40-somethings...RCI, NCL and Carnival...are booming. When Oasis was built, you couldn't touch that ship for under a thousand bucks for several years, and that ship carries over 6000 passengers. And now there's 4 of them. Carnival found their niche by just building bigger models of the same ship. Yet, they keep selling out, and they keep building. NCL struck a homerun with Breakaway and now I think they're working on #5 of that design.

 

I'm not saying HAL should become like them though, because those lines are also typically the go-to's for the 20s and 30s crowd.

 

Celebrity is a better representative sample for a usual older demographic that's become more attractive for 40-somethings. Celebrity knocked it out of the park with Solstice and quickly released 5 ships in that class. They're now moving on to another class that looks promising. The South-Beach "chic" atmosphere they went to is proving very popular.

 

Again, this may not play well with the older HAL faithful but if HAL wants to survive, they need to have a 5, 10, 15 year plan, and it only makes sense they need to target younger than their typical demographic of today.

[innlady1]

Very few of our friends cruise. I have friends who just did a Perillo Tour of Rome and the Amalfi Coast. My sister does two or three Gate One tours a year all over the world. Those kinds of trips are very popular. These folks are L.L.Bean in their 60's w/o mobility issues.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roz]

Then he identified HAL's target customer:

-45 to 65 years old. - I turn the big 65 next month.

-Advanced university degree. - BS but no advanced degree.

-Home and 2 cars with no mortgages. - 1 car and a small mortgage (I live by myself, why do I need 2 cars? I could use the extra money for CRUISING.)

-Business / First class air travelers. - Never; unnecessary expense.

-Suite cruisers. - I cruise in everything from an inside to a Neptune.

-"Adventurous" travelers who will pay a premium for unique shore experiences. - I'm adventurous, but find the regular shorex satisfactory and expensive enough already.

-People who do not mind paying extra for a special night out, with special wines and food. - I go to 1 or 2 wine dinners a year...does that count?

So...looks like I'm not a good fit for HAL moving forward. Where should I go? What line's demographic do I sync with?

 

Roz

[sail7seas]

I agree with Kathy.

 

I had friends sail on the Veendam recently and they had glowing reports.

 

You know the changes you will see I think but not all changes are bad and, the one thing that remains consistent is the crew. A happy, good crew make the cruise.

 

I know you will have a most memorable cruise and hope that despite the sadness, both you and your friend have a lovely cruise.

 

 

I sailed Veendam this summer and was more pleased tthan not. I found the ship in btgeter conditoin tthan I expected. we enoyed thougMDRh the food ggood thougfh selection rather pedesrian. Our ding stewards were ggood but worked too hard, IMO. Myffiend and I hada two cabins so two sets of cabin stewards. we were botth sattisfied. I though my suite inn adequate codition and had no complaints in that regard As always, liked the crew..

Pinnacle was awful and had the wortt Manager I've ever encountered and kept digging the hole deeper, I had free dinners as part or5 star mariner ben fits but we didn't user it. I preferred to waste it and not go.

We did not attend any shows I did not find any of the entertainment anything that interested me..... If I could learn that Pinnacle Manager wsas replaced. He was even annoying at breakfast., I might salil Vendam again itf an interest ing trip came along.

 

 

.

[kohl57]

All companies have to appeal to new generations. But successful ones don't have to re-invent themselves every 25 years to do it. Nor does every 28-year-old aspire to blaring rap music on every deck, touch screens and public rooms that look they are out an IKEA catalogue. Age doesn't necessarily define tastes. Carnival attracts an astonishing age range with a defined product. They know who they are and the confidence inspires customer loyality from ages and incomes as varied as any in the industry. Ditto to an extent Cunard's unique trans-Atlantic crossings. But when a company like HAL doesn't seem to know what it aspires to be, it's a problem.

 

Carnival bought Holland America Line precisely as an iconic "heritage" line, one firmly in the middle class in terms of well... everything. You drove a Volvo, you went HAL. Sensible, sane and secure. And boring only for people who are aren't I guess. Everything went fine until Carnival bought a company very close to HAL... Cunard. From then on, they have been tinkering with HAL to make it something more contemporary, hip and well, something. ZUIDERDAM was the first to reflect with this with a very garish interior (for HAL) and for the last decade it's been a drip, drip... Ashford and the K'DAM merely making it more pronounced.

 

Ironically, you'll find Cunard today the best place for HAL "refugees" although their getting a K'DAM in 2022 is very worrying... if basic ship is the same across all these lines, what really is the distinction left if any? It merely re-enforces the "whatever is cheapest, I'm having it" of web based commerce which cruising is very much part of today.

[innlady1]

I don't think he's off the mark at all. The thing is, the lines that typically attract 40-somethings...RCI, NCL and Carnival...are booming. When Oasis was built, you couldn't touch that ship for under a thousand bucks for several years, and that ship carries over 6000 passengers. And now there's 4 of them. Carnival found their niche by just building bigger models of the same ship. Yet, they keep selling out, and they keep building. NCL struck a homerun with Breakaway and now I think they're working on #5 of that design.

 

I'm not saying HAL should become like them though, because those lines are also typically the go-to's for the 20s and 30s crowd.

 

Celebrity is a better representative sample for a usual older demographic that's become more attractive for 40-somethings. Celebrity knocked it out of the park with Solstice and quickly released 5 ships in that class. They're now moving on to another class that looks promising. The South-Beach "chic" atmosphere they went to is proving very popular.

 

Again, this may not play well with the older HAL faithful but if HAL wants to survive, they need to have a 5, 10, 15 year plan, and it only makes sense they need to target younger than their typical demographic of today.

 

 

What I meant by "off the mark" was that I don't think he can successfully rebrand to millennials. Those who do cruise think of HAL as a cruise line for older folks: the "carpets roll up" at dark and all that. They prefer what they conceive as more hip lines. RC, Carnival, NCL. As they age, perhaps they'll "graduate" to HAL.

 

Anyone know what the average passenger age is for the various cruise lines? That would be interesting to know.

 

I think HAL would be smart to market to Boomers and leave the other lines to the Millennials.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tractortom]

Going back to the original post. The last time we cruised with Holland America was 2000, for our 25th Wedding Anniversary. I was 46 at the time and was pretty sure that I was the youngest man on the Maasdam that trip! What I remember about the cruise was being met at the boarding gate by a crewmember in a vest and white gloves, who took our hand luggage and escorted us up to our junior suite (a VA, I think?) to show us the cabin and talk about the ship. We had two FORMAL nights on that seven day cruise to St. Thomas and somewhere else, and I rented a Tux to wear. It was all very special.

 

We leave in a month, now well past our 40th anniversary, and happy to be able to wear slacks and a collared shirt to most of the evening meals and events. A tux is fun once or twice, but now I prefer comfort to dressy. I doubt that I'll be the youngest man on the ship this time!

 

All that said, we are really looking forward to our 11 day Seafarer starting 15 November. To long slow days on the ship, to experiencing the Panama Canal for the first time, and enjoying the good service that Holland America is known for.

 

Tom in Okeechobee, FL

[cruisemom42]

All companies have to appeal to new generations. But successful ones don't have to re-invent themselves every 25 years to do it.

 

Not entirely true. Some businesses may not have to re-invent themselves. Others who don't do so in a changing market risk becoming obsolete. Look at Kodak -- they were certainly top of the game in what they did, with lots of customer loyalty. And where did that get them? (Same can be said for Nokia, Blackberry, Blockbuster video, and so on...)

 

To my mind, HAL in this moment somewhat resembles the Pontiac line of GM. Carnival, like GM, has a range of successful "brands" -- but HAL seems to be a brand in search of a new image. Will they come up with one soon enough to save the line? Or will HAL, like Pontiac, eventually disappear....

 

 

Nor does every 28-year-old aspire to blaring rap music on every deck, touch screens and public rooms that look they are out an IKEA catalogue. Age doesn't necessarily define tastes.

 

But there are certain expectations and beliefs that are widely held by specific market segments like the Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, Millennials, etc. If that weren't true, marketers would not be able to build successful campaigns around targeting these various population segments. Just because there are some outliers doesn't invalidate the overall model and assumptions.

 

Carnival attracts an astonishing age range with a defined product. They know who they are and the confidence inspires customer loyality from ages and incomes as varied as any in the industry. Ditto to an extent Cunard's unique trans-Atlantic crossings. But when a company like HAL doesn't seem to know what it aspires to be, it's a problem.

 

Agreed; see my comment above.

 

Carnival bought Holland America Line precisely as an iconic "heritage" line, one firmly in the middle class in terms of well... everything. You drove a Volvo, you went HAL. Sensible, sane and secure. And boring only for people who are aren't I guess. Everything went fine until Carnival bought a company very close to HAL... Cunard. From then on, they have been tinkering with HAL to make it something more contemporary, hip and well, something. ZUIDERDAM was the first to reflect with this with a very garish interior (for HAL) and for the last decade it's been a drip, drip... Ashford and the K'DAM merely making it more pronounced.

 

Interestingly, you fail to mention Princess Cruise Line (which came into the Carnival family after Cunard), which I find to be more similar to HAL than Cunard in most cases. Princess also seems to have a bit of an identity problem.

 

Ironically, you'll find Cunard today the best place for HAL "refugees" although their getting a K'DAM in 2022 is very worrying... if basic ship is the same across all these lines, what really is the distinction left if any? It merely re-enforces the "whatever is cheapest, I'm having it" of web based commerce which cruising is very much part of today.

 

Interesting thoughts. See my comments above.

[Stevanb]

I love HAL, but I'm not happy with some of the changes over the years, but I realize everything changes. I was not happy with all the add on items last cruise. The final cost was not that much difference between HAL and Crystal where it is all inclusive.

 

 

Yes you are right if you take a lager cabin or a suite on Hal the price will be about the same Did Crystal in April and it was 12.00 per day more using there ocean view cabin BUT no bar bill

[kazu]

I don't think he's off the mark at all. The thing is, the lines that typically attract 40-somethings...RCI, NCL and Carnival...are booming. When Oasis was built, you couldn't touch that ship for under a thousand bucks for several years, and that ship carries over 6000 passengers. And now there's 4 of them. Carnival found their niche by just building bigger models of the same ship. Yet, they keep selling out, and they keep building. NCL struck a homerun with Breakaway and now I think they're working on #5 of that design.

 

I'm not saying HAL should become like them though, because those lines are also typically the go-to's for the 20s and 30s crowd.

 

Celebrity is a better representative sample for a usual older demographic that's become more attractive for 40-somethings. Celebrity knocked it out of the park with Solstice and quickly released 5 ships in that class. They're now moving on to another class that looks promising. The South-Beach "chic" atmosphere they went to is proving very popular.

 

Again, this may not play well with the older HAL faithful but if HAL wants to survive, they need to have a 5, 10, 15 year plan, and it only makes sense they need to target younger than their typical demographic of today.

 

Try pricing the Prinsendam for it's unique itineraries and even the Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

 

Prinsendam makes a pile of money for HAL, most profitable ship in the fleet per passenger for HAL, not just in pricing but in casino activity, specialty dining bookings etc.

 

Now, granted it's a smaller ship, but those cruise ships you mention do NOT do the itineraries I want. I've done the Caribbean enough. A nice escape but I prefer unique and different itineraries.

 

So far, I have not found ANY cruise line other than HAL (primarily Prinsendam) that offers these. And yes, I've looked at luxury, etc.

 

HAL could easily create a niche for the discerning passenger if that is what Mr. Ashford is looking for, but he needs to focus on that. HAL's itineraries has been one of it's successes IMO along with the wonderful crew.

 

Those cruise lines you mentioned are successful certainly but the $ amount to sail is not as high as stated. I have looked. But, those cruises appeal to want to just be in a floating hotel. That has never been HAL's design nor what they did. (Caribbean might be excluded in that statement). HAL has been about itinerary, class and crew IMO.

 

 

HAL needs to decide what they want to do. there are people willing to pay for unique, wonderful itineraries.

[Aquahound]

Try pricing the Prinsendam for it's unique itineraries and even the Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

 

Prinsendam makes a pile of money for HAL, most profitable ship in the fleet per passenger for HAL, not just in pricing but in casino activity, specialty dining bookings etc.

 

Now, granted it's a smaller ship, but those cruise ships you mention do NOT do the itineraries I want. I've done the Caribbean enough. A nice escape but I prefer unique and different itineraries.

 

So far, I have not found ANY cruise line other than HAL (primarily Prinsendam) that offers these. And yes, I've looked at luxury, etc.

 

HAL could easily create a niche for the discerning passenger if that is what Mr. Ashford is looking for, but he needs to focus on that. HAL's itineraries has been one of it's successes IMO along with the wonderful crew.

 

Those cruise lines you mentioned are successful certainly but the $ amount to sail is not as high as stated. I have looked. But, those cruises appeal to want to just be in a floating hotel. That has never been HAL's design nor what they did. (Caribbean might be excluded in that statement). HAL has been about itinerary, class and crew IMO.

 

 

HAL needs to decide what they want to do. there are people willing to pay for unique, wonderful itineraries.

 

I understand what you're saying but in the World of cruising, you represent a minuscule audience.

 

There's nothing saying HAL can't rebrand while keeping a ship like Prinsendam with those unique itineraries. That might even bolster that ship. Look at Celebrity. Xpedition is nothing like their normal fleet and was so popular and so in demand, Celebrity added 3 more yacht-size ships to compliment Xpedition.

 

By the way, the cost I mentioned for Oasis was not referring to today. I was making a new ship analogy. Oasis Class is no longer new. The $$$ I was talking about was 2009, lasting easily into 2011. I know...I cruised that class 4 times, and during off-peak times.

 

I know it's very hard for some people to hear that they are not the best target audience for revenue. Hey, I'm top tier in another cruise line's loyalty program, yet I'm able to see that I am not as valuable to them as a new cruiser.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Aquahound

[iancal]

When I think about the cruises that we have taken I believe that one of HAL's biggest issues in the most recent past has been the competition. Like it or not, the competition has heated up over the past ten years while HAL stood still. They left HAL in their dust and now it is catch up time.

 

I know there are people who only sail on HAL, or Princess, or Celebrity, etc. Not us. We find them all to be very good, and several more cruise lines as well. We do not have an emotional attachment that to any cruise line. I do not think that we are unique. Moreover, I think the generation behind us is or will be the same. Besides, what is really to be loyal about. The cruise lines are so similar, that loyalty programs mediocre to darn right poor, and the service similar. We do it one cruise at a time. We have had not so good and some first rate cruises on many lines. But, we have lowered our expectations in all but one area-cabin comfort and cleanliness.

[kazu]

I understand what you're saying but in the World of cruising, you represent a minuscule audience.

 

There's nothing saying HAL can't rebrand while keeping a ship like Prinsendam with those unique itineraries. That might even bolster that ship. Look at Celebrity. Xpedition is nothing like their normal fleet and was so popular and so in demand, Celebrity added 3 more yacht-size ships to compliment Xpedition.

 

By the way, the cost I mentioned for Oasis was not referring to today. I was making a new ship analogy. Oasis Class is no longer new. The $$$ I was talking about was 2009, lasting easily into 2011. I know...I cruised that class 4 times, and during off-peak times.

 

I know it's very hard for some people to hear that they are not the best target audience for revenue. Hey, I'm top tier in another cruise line's loyalty program, yet I'm able to see that I am not as valuable to them as a new cruiser.

 

I have no problem being part of the minisucle.

 

I learned a long time ago in the business world that I would rather have 100% if a small piece of the pie that was profitable than fight for the other 80% that was not as profitable since I had to cut costs.

 

I also learned (and it was true) that 20% of my clients made me 80% of my profit. So, I took care of those clients and my business was very profitable.

 

Nothing wrong with being minisucle if you are among the profitable for the company ;)

 

and, that's what the company needs to pay attention to. JMO

 

Are we having fun yet :D

[sammiedawg]

Try pricing the Prinsendam for it's unique itineraries and even the Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

 

Prinsendam makes a pile of money for HAL, most profitable ship in the fleet per passenger for HAL, not just in pricing but in casino activity, specialty dining bookings etc.

 

Now, granted it's a smaller ship, but those cruise ships you mention do NOT do the itineraries I want. I've done the Caribbean enough. A nice escape but I prefer unique and different itineraries.

 

So far, I have not found ANY cruise line other than HAL (primarily Prinsendam) that offers these. And yes, I've looked at luxury, etc.

 

HAL could easily create a niche for the discerning passenger if that is what Mr. Ashford is looking for, but he needs to focus on that. HAL's itineraries has been one of it's successes IMO along with the wonderful crew.

 

Those cruise lines you mentioned are successful certainly but the $ amount to sail is not as high as stated. I have looked. But, those cruises appeal to want to just be in a floating hotel. That has never been HAL's design nor what they did. (Caribbean might be excluded in that statement). HAL has been about itinerary, class and crew IMO.

 

 

HAL needs to decide what they want to do. there are people willing to pay for unique, wonderful itineraries.

 

I'm not sure saying the Prinsendam is "the most profitable ship" will sell cruises to discerning passengers. We thought the Prinsendam offered standard HAL food and service. We were in non suite accommodations.

 

I totally disagree that other cruise lines do not offer unique itineraries. Premium and luxury lines routinely visit ports I have never heard of.

[Aquahound]

Are we having fun yet :D

 

Absolutely. My posts are just my opinions. I like healthy discussion and differing opinions, and I totally respect yours. :)

[kazu]

I'm not sure saying the Prinsendam is "the most profitable ship" will sell cruises to discerning passengers. We thought the Prinsendam offered standard HAL food and service. We were in non suite accommodations.

 

I totally disagree that other cruise lines do not offer unique itineraries. Premium and luxury lines routinely visit ports I have never heard of.

 

please let me know what cruise lines visit some of the ports we are going to next year. There is only one that I have found but it only goes to a couple. I used cruise time tables as well as checking several luxury lines. Most are doing the standard stuff with a couple of "different ones" thrown in. that's a far cry from what we are looking at.

 

and yes, the P'dam is the most profitable ship per passenger (remember it's a smaller ship) in the fleet. That fact hasn't changed yet.. I totally get you weren't happy with the ship several years ago. You have posted that enough times for most of us to get it, but like it or not, she does offer different itineraries that others do not and she is profitable - very profitable. But, of course, she's expensive to upkeep ;)

 

Actually when I contacted the tourist bureau in Killybegs for their "over the edge tour", she knew right away we HAD to be on the P'dam. The first cruise ship to arrive there and one of the regulars at this port. P'dam has been a first at many ports. It's a fact. I've been on a cruise when we were the first to visit a Canary Island (Fueteventura - the people were thrilled and the island offered a pilot so we could travel around the island close to shore, see the geographic differences and wave back to all the people) , the first to try to dock at a new floating dock rather than tender (the other ships couldn't), etc.

 

We can agree to disagree but I do know a bit about this ship and yes, I am sailing her again next year :)

[iancal]

Since retiring we have come to view cruising for us as a respite from independent land travel. Bottom line for us is that even though some cruises may offer unusual itineraries we find that there is not enough time in those locales AND we miss out on the local environment by dining and sleeping in what amount to a NA hotel style environment.

 

So for us, unique itineraries are best independent land travel itineraries. This is not what we expected to occur. So now, we buy a cruise either because it provides this mid land travel respite or it goes somewhere we believe that is best served by ocean travel. And there are many of those locations. This may of course change in later years when our travel preferences may change. But certainly not in the near future.

 

What has surprised us over the past five yeas is that we continue to meet more and more people who are doing exactly the same. The internet continues to shrink the world. It seems to us that more and more people are traveling to out of the way locations that in the past may have only been toured by cruise line passengers. The other big surprise to us is the number of people in our age group, 60-70 who are doing this and are travelling light-often with carry on only. Perhaps a throw back to their youth??? We think that we are going to meet progressively more people who do this type of combo travel. It is very different traveller from traditional cruisers who may do a pre or post cruise but more often than not go from home-airport-cruise ship and back.

Edited October 13, 2017 by iancal

[sail7seas]

Since retiring we have come to view cruising for us as a respite frin independent land travel. Bottom line for us is that even though some cruises may offer unusual itineraries we find that there is not enough time in those locales AND we miss out on the local environment by dining and sleeping in what amount to a NA hotel style environment.

 

So for us, unique itineraries are best independent land travel itineraries. This is not what we expected to occur. So now, we buy a cruise either because it provides this mid land travel respite or it goes somewhere we believe that is best served by ocean travel. And there are many of those locations. This may of course change in later years when our travel preferences may change. But certainly not in the near future.

 

IMO there is not an only one way is correct .....What is correct or best for one may not be for another. BEST, is best decided for ourselves accordinng to our indiividual likes, experiences and wishes........ How lucky are we to be ab le to make those choices? ! The best choicre forr travel to my mind is to travel as much as you are able and as often as possible. I cannot imagine what my Dh' and my life would have been like without all the travel we relished.

[iancal]

The point that I am making is that all of the dynamics are/have changed.

 

The cruise industry has changed. So many new, great offerings at attractive pricing.

 

HAL has changed, or is trying desperately to change. How successful is open to interpretation.

 

The demographic dynamics have changed. Not just age either. More like the saying 60 is the new 50.

 

Finally, there is change itself -as evidenced by the change from formal to casual

 

So, there are lots of variables that were not necessary present 15 or 20 years ago. Many moving pieces. Makes for interesting times.

 

I believe that the HAL management team has a huge challenge in front of them. I am not smart enough nor do I know enough about cruising or the travel industry to figure it out or make a prediction as to where it is going or how it will end for HAL.

Edited October 14, 2017 by iancal

[sail7seas]

The point that I am making is that all of the dynamics are/have changed.

 

The cruise industry has changed. So many new, great offerings at attractive pricing.

 

HAL has changed, or is trying desperately to change. How successful is open to interpretation.

 

The demographic dynamics have changed. Not just age either. More like the saying 60 is the new 50.

 

Finally, there is change itself -as evidenced by the change from formal to casual

 

So, there are lots of variables that were not necessary present 15 or 20 years ago. Many moving pieces. Makes for interesting times.

 

I believe that the HAL management team has a huge challenge in front of them. I am not smart enough nor do I know enough about cruising or the travel industry to figure it out or make a prediction as to where it is going or how it will end for HAL.

I don't argue any of those points.

 

Gauging from some retired folks I know, I think the concept of fixed income is very different as some of these folks have ample retirement accounts. they did not do as the last generation did and planned more carefully for rretirement. they enjoyed their younger years, worked hard and kept some of their high income funds for later. Later is now and many do not have t o squeeze the nickel as hard s some previous. generations. They have funds forttravel now O f couse, tthat is a large generaliazation, however, here are enuogh like that to be a force of sorts. The wild growth in the Dow certainly has helped.

These people have money to spend b ut they will not throw it around. If they find something they think a good value for their money, they may choose to buy it. if they think the product not worth the pirce.......... of course, they will by pass it. Their allegiance is about as fickle as MR. Ashford's. They will look elsewhere.

Edited October 14, 2017 by sail7seas

[bennybear]

We too like to balance our usual independent land tours with a cruise. We like to vary our experiences and enjoy visiting more out of the way places. Last year we really enjoyed a long visit to Crete followed by Tuscany and a cruise to relax.

We would enjoy some more interesting itineraries of harder to reach places such as Chios, Volos, Patmos. We find a lot of the itineraries are the same in the Med particularly.

Interesting times.

[whogo]

I joked about cutbacks during a live blog, complaining that HAL had eliminated the yellow dye in the Elemis soap. Seriously, I can't think of any cutbacks that have affected me, yet. I don't miss dam dollars, dutch nights, formal nights, informal nights, tipping not required, leatherette (or were they pleather?) document packages, made to order sandwiches, live music at dinner, dinner chimes, crew shows, ice sculptures, or menu copies.

 

I generally receive good service despite fewer cruise staff. I have never been one to chit chat with the crew, but remember receiving poor service in the past because staff ignored me while chatting with other guests. I don't consider the Indonesian and Filipino staff holy, received great service on other lines, and kind of miss having a waiter from Romania or Zimbabwe or wherever.

 

I will miss the Crow's Nest, walk around promenade decks, libraries and librarians. I miss the better fish offerings of years past, but have to applaud the switch to sustainable seafood, even if the switch was just an economic decision.

 

I am not HAL's dream cruiser. I don't fly first class. I don't stay in suites. If I pay for a unique shore excursion, it will likely not be through he cruise line. My onboard expenses are limited to tips, a few drinks and a few excursions. I don't gamble, don't go to the spa, and am not about to advertise Holland America by buying their logo wear.

 

I am not going to criticize Orlando Ashford for doing what Carnival Corporation stockholders expect. HAL might be successful in luring younger passengers, but Carnival Corporation missed the boat. Royal Caribbean's mega-ships, Celebrity's Solstice Class ships, and Disney ships are the hot tickets in cruising and Carnival Corporation has nothing to compare.

[kazu]

We too like to balance our usual independent land tours with a cruise. We like to vary our experiences and enjoy visiting more out of the way places. Last year we really enjoyed a long visit to Crete followed by Tuscany and a cruise to relax.

We would enjoy some more interesting itineraries of harder to reach places such as Chios, Volos, Patmos. We find a lot of the itineraries are the same in the Med particularly.

Interesting times.

 

We like to combine too. Like you, we prefer the more interesting itineraries.

 

We went to Volos a few years ago on the Prinsendam. So glad we did it :D

[kira5]

We still like Holland America and were happy with our last cruise. That said, if we were travelling with our children and/or grandchildren -- the kind of multi-generational travelling that I've heard is increasingly popular -- I would need to choose a line with more activities for them. I wouldn't use the skating rink, the wave pool, the climbing wall, the go kart track but I'm sure they would

[skiingj]

I joked about cutbacks during a live blog, complaining that HAL had eliminated the yellow dye in the Elemis soap. Seriously, I can't think of any cutbacks that have affected me, yet. I don't miss dam dollars, dutch nights, formal nights, informal nights, tipping not required, leatherette (or were they pleather?) document packages, made to order sandwiches, live music at dinner, dinner chimes, crew shows, ice sculptures, or menu copies.

 

I generally receive good service despite fewer cruise staff. I have never been one to chit chat with the crew, but remember receiving poor service in the past because staff ignored me while chatting with other guests. I don't consider the Indonesian and Filipino staff holy, received great service on other lines, and kind of miss having a waiter from Romania or Zimbabwe or wherever.

 

I will miss the Crow's Nest, walk around promenade decks, libraries and librarians. I miss the better fish offerings of years past, but have to applaud the switch to sustainable seafood, even if the switch was just an economic decision.

 

I am not HAL's dream cruiser. I don't fly first class. I don't stay in suites. If I pay for a unique shore excursion, it will likely not be through he cruise line. My onboard expenses are limited to tips, a few drinks and a few excursions. I don't gamble, don't go to the spa, and am not about to advertise Holland America by buying their logo wear.

 

I am not going to criticize Orlando Ashford for doing what Carnival Corporation stockholders expect. HAL might be successful in luring younger passengers, but Carnival Corporation missed the boat. Royal Caribbean's mega-ships, Celebrity's Solstice Class ships, and Disney ships are the hot tickets in cruising and Carnival Corporation has nothing to compare.

 

Well said, fits my cruise pattern with HAL as well. As a 48 yo sailing HAL since I was 35 yo I don't find HAL cruisers getting younger. I've heard for a decade they want a young crowd but never see that onboard. I'm often the youngest 10% onboard. I like HAL, others think we're crazy... My wife works in the Travel Industry and often says HAL is targeting younger cruisers.