Incident on Pacific Dawn

[chengkp75]

While sympathizing with the tragic loss of this woman, and with her family, I will post my professional opinion, without debate, in concurrence with Brisbane. I have been working at sea for 43 years, many on ships where the decks are only 3 meters above the water, and with only open pipe work handrails, and in weather where the decks were 3 meters deep in water. In my younger days, I've been known to venture out on these decks in this kind of weather, for the safety of the ship, and I've never known anyone to be swept overboard by a wave.

 

Waves at sea don't advance and retreat as they do at the shoreline. The water goes straight up and straight down. It is only the energy that forms this up and down motion that moves laterally making waves look like the water is moving along. So, the main force of water once it hits a ship is down due to gravity, which takes things awash on deck, and brings them into the railings, not bodily lifting them over the railings. Add to this that a wave reaches the deck when that side of the ship is rolling down, and "recedes" when the side of the ship is rolling up, so the railing is rising as the water tries to wash things over the side.

 

As for momentum, there is also gravity at work. If she tripped any distance from the rail, gravity would be working with her forward motion, so she would be falling outboard, and down, into the railing. If she tripped close to the railing, she would not have sufficient time to build enough momentum to fall over the railing.

 

As to a rogue wave, had a rogue wave sufficiently large to wash the deck struck the ship, there would have been much more damage than just washing one woman overboard. There would have been water inside the ship (promenade deck doors are not watertight), all the glassware and dishes onboard would have gone flying and broken, and many passengers and crew would have been thrown off their feet and likely injured.

[MicCanberra]

The latest news report indicates that (sadly) the lady jumped. Her husband tried to stop her, but couldn't.

Well that may answer many of the questions posed. How very sad, and especially for her family.

[The_Big_M]

The photo in the following news story shows the railing she fell over. It doesn’t look like the top deck to me.

Personally, I believe the eye witness. That railing does look low.

[/font][/color]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/first-photo-from-inside-tragic-po-pacific-dawn-cruise-as-eyewitness-comes-forward/news-story/ba694166449afa4a252b6fbf25c046c8

 

That photo shows searchers 'looking' for her and the railing on the promenade deck.

 

It doesn't say she fell from that same deck.

[The_Big_M]

Thanks chengkp.

 

That's also in agreement with the earlier post on number of people overboard over decades. If it was the big safety issue some make out, there would be many more people falling over - and obviously safety standards would be adjusted for it.

[Expat Cruise]

The really short answer here is be very careful and sure anytime you are near rails. Always have one hand holding on and know what is going on around you.

 

Being extra careful and alert could save your life.

[Brisbane41]

Thoughts are with the family and friends at this tragic time! May her soul rest in peace.

 

Brisbane41

You are clearly forgetting one thing.... Momentum. The railing is set at an outward angle, witnesses have been quoted as saying she stumbled or tripped as she approached the rail. Consider this happening as the ship pitches or rolls and the woman is already frantically looking for somewhere to throw up without making a mess.

 

I think you will need to add a fourth reason why people go overboard and I sincerely hope you have the decency at some point to less assertively express your point of view and show some empathy to those affected by this event.

 

 

Cheers

 

It is totally impossible to stumble and trip over the side of a ship. I served in the Navy and you could say that I have lived at sea. It is impossible to accidentally fall of a ship. There can be no fourth reason why people go overboard. As I stated earlier it is either murder, suicide or skylarking/deliberate acts of negligence.

[fredflint]

Couple of things to mention, one meter is 39.54 inches and that picture of the railing has some glass above the solid wall. If you look closely you will see the guy is leaning on the glass.

 

The story overall is a bit odd as most overboard stories are. There should be camera footage that will come out after the investigation is completed.

 

Searches are coordinated by the government agency involved. There was a case off the East Coast at 4PM the person was believed to have jumped and another cruise ship joined the search along with a couple of helicopters since they were close to land. The other cruise ship does not ask for money for the fuel burned. There is no cost for a search. The location of the ship determines the ships planes involved in the search. The fact that they had a very good location of where she was in the water could have an effect on how long they have the ship search. Once it gets dark the chance of seeing someone in the water are pretty small and the amount of time they could drift by dawn makes the search area too great. They could send out a plane with thermal imaging too look depending on the distance it could take a while for it to arrive.

 

Sent from my VS995 using Forums mobile app

[Kiwi_cruiser]

OMG, that's dreadful. I know that what was initially reported had changed and that police boarded the ship immediately. Wow, just awful.

 

Police have been no where near the Pacific Dawn! ( I know I am still on her!).

 

I bet police will be on as soon as we dock in the morning.

[Tigerlily75]

Police have been no where near the Pacific Dawn! ( I know I am still on her!).

 

I bet police will be on as soon as we dock in the morning.

 

Yes Queensland Police have stated they will be meeting the ship tomorrow morning.

[Tigerlily75]

Update from 9News

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/14/21/19/brisbane-mother-may-have-jumped-to-death-from-cruise-ship

 

Heartbreaking for all involved.

[chengkp75]

Update from 9News

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/14/21/19/brisbane-mother-may-have-jumped-to-death-from-cruise-ship

 

Heartbreaking for all involved.

 

Not sure how the "international cruise experts" are "baffled" by how she could go over the rail. There are international standards. Then they mention a person whose partner went overboard (is this the international cruise expert?), who claims that there are no laws "specifying how high the rail should be". First off, the ship is UK registered, not Australian, so Australia can not pass a law requiring this ship to have a specific height of rail, with one big exception. SOLAS requires a 1 mtr height for rails on open decks for passenger ships, and since Australia is signatory to SOLAS, there is enabling legislation taking all of the requirements of SOLAS into Australian law. So, Australia can enforce SOLAS requirements on a foreign flag ship, but not any more restrictive requirements that they may feel justified.

[Esilef]

Very sad for her family. It sounds like the most logical explanation as to how and why she went overboard. I hope the media and all allow her family time to process this and be able to find closure and peace. This must be so hard for all on the ship as well.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Brisbane41]

Now finally the truth has come out and it is a fact that it was a suicide.

 

I now hope all the supposed cruise loving people on this forum who jumped on the social media bandwagon, without any regard for the truth aplogise for sprouting so much vile and negative comments about cruise ships and the cruise industry about believing and supporting initial false stories that someone accidentally fell over.

 

This just shows the danger of social media and how in the wrong hands a group of people "mob mentality" can be led into believing something is true. I on the other hand stuck to my three main reasons as to why people go overboard and in the end was proven correct. I hope the false stories and those who provided online support for the false stories have not scared new people off booking the best holiday in the world out of fear that they might fall off if they get sick.

[Brisbane41]

Thoughts are with the family and friends at this tragic time! May her soul rest in peace.

 

Brisbane41

You are clearly forgetting one thing.... Momentum. The railing is set at an outward angle, witnesses have been quoted as saying she stumbled or tripped as she approached the rail. Consider this happening as the ship pitches or rolls and the woman is already frantically looking for somewhere to throw up without making a mess.

 

I think you will need to add a fourth reason why people go overboard and I sincerely hope you have the decency at some point to less assertively express your point of view and show some empathy to those affected by this event.

 

 

Cheers

 

I really hope you request to delete false and misleading posts like this now that it is a proven fact that it was suicide. I would hate it if you scared off new people to cruising by suggesting a ship is dangerous and easy to fall off.

[Scottygirl1]

Police have been no where near the Pacific Dawn! ( I know I am still on her!).

 

I bet police will be on as soon as we dock in the morning.

 

Sorry, I meant to say that police will board here as soon as she arrives (I incorrectly stated that they had boarded her). I agree that no one could trip and fall off. The news item says she "launched" herself off... I'm trying to imagine how one would do that? Certainly it's a deliberate act. Very sad for her family.

[rkmw]

this was posted on FB awhile ago

 

[banzaii]

It is totally impossible to stumble and trip over the side of a ship. I served in the Navy and you could say that I have lived at sea. It is impossible to accidentally fall of a ship. There can be no fourth reason why people go overboard. As I stated earlier it is either murder, suicide or skylarking/deliberate acts of negligence.

 

 

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree!

 

I concede that it is unlikely and improbable that one can accidentally go over the railing but not impossible.

 

I'm not suggesting any of this in regards to this tragedy, but in risk analysis, I don't believe an insurer would consider an accidental person overboard, an impossibility. There are be many variables that affect the likelihood.

- What if there is something to stand on near the railing?

- What if the person was leaning far out so as not to vomit on lower decks?

- Is it possible that a part of the rail might fail at a weak point or gate or something?

- Body composition - Would a top heavy 6'6" rugby player be more likely than a 5'6" couch potato to go over a railing?

 

I'm sure we have all seen the sporting footage of players hitting the fence at speed and their momentum taking them over said fence. There is footage of this occurring in baseball games where the fence is far higher than 1m!

 

One thing that I will not relent on, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, is that we all need to be more considerate of our language in public forums when asserting or defending our opinions. We cannot ignore that many of our online friends are affected in different ways by unfortunate events such as this compounded by speculation and media sensationalism.

 

 

Cheers

[banzaii]

I really hope you request to delete false and misleading posts like this now that it is a proven fact that it was suicide. I would hate it if you scared off new people to cruising by suggesting a ship is dangerous and easy to fall off.

 

 

 

There remain no false or misleading or statements in what I have said. However I would like you to reconsider your assertion that anyone has proven suicide at this point.

 

Even if this fact is proven, I take offence that you would consider this some kind of moral victory - only fact I am certain of is that a soul has been lost at sea!

 

Also, I do not subscribe to any social media - this forum is as close as I get. If people are scared off from cruising by media sensationalism, that is their decision.

 

 

Cheers

[Russell21]

Latest news supported by video footage on the ship is that she launched herself from the top deck after stepping back and taking virtually a running jump. Husband unable to prevent her doing so.

[Aus Traveller]

New reports have the following quote:

 

But how a passenger is able to be in that position, is a question that baffles international cruise experts.

Mark Brimble, whose ex-partner Dianne died on a cruise more than 15 years ago, is questioning why a backyard swimming pool requires a 1.2 metres-high fence, yet on a cruise ship in Australia there is no law specifying how high guard rails must be.

"The cruise industry is still not doing what it can do for the protection and safety of its passengers," Mr Brimble said.

 

It would be ridiculous to put high walls on all the outer decks of cruiseships to prevent people committing suicide. If they are determined to do it, they will find a way.

 

For people not familiar with the tragic death of Dianne Brimble, I mention that it did not involve falling overboard from a cruise ship. I am puzzled why Mark Brimble got onto the bandwagon once again when the death of his ex-wife was totally different. Dianne Brimble willingly went with a group of much younger men to their four-berth cabin around 1.30am on their first night at sea. She had told several friends she went on the cruise to have a good time. Evidence at the Coronial Inquest indicated that she willingly took drugs offered by the men and that she engaged in sexual activity with multiple partners. These men treated her badly. Tragically Dianne died around 6am. Doctors on board believed she died from a heart attack and although a NSW police officer flew to Noumea and boarded the ship, he did not investigate adequately. He then went on stress leave for two years slowing down the investigation. Subsequently, P&O suffered a tremendous amount of bad publicity and strengthened their security measures. It was reported that P&O paid the Brimble family $2 million in an ex gratia payment.

[essandjaybee]

Now finally the truth has come out and it is a fact that it was a suicide.

 

I now hope all the supposed cruise loving people on this forum who jumped on the social media bandwagon, without any regard for the truth aplogise for sprouting so much vile and negative comments about cruise ships and the cruise industry about believing and supporting initial false stories that someone accidentally fell over.

 

This just shows the danger of social media and how in the wrong hands a group of people "mob mentality" can be led into believing something is true. I on the other hand stuck to my three main reasons as to why people go overboard and in the end was proven correct. I hope the false stories and those who provided online support for the false stories have not scared new people off booking the best holiday in the world out of fear that they might fall off if they get sick.

 

Well said.......;) at the end of the day the deceased is where she chose to be, her reasons none of our business but she obviously did not want to return to her shore life......her choice..............full stop.

 

 

Safety onboard cruise ships is more than adequate and is well controlled....... a suicidal person will find a way no matter what obstacles are put in their way.............

[MicCanberra]

So tragic an event, especially for her family who are left with a lot of unanswered questions as to why she would commit such a selfish act. Just so sad.

[bazzaw]

There remain no false or misleading or statements in what I have said. However I would like you to reconsider your assertion that anyone has proven suicide at this point.

 

Even if this fact is proven, I take offence that you would consider this some kind of moral victory - only fact I am certain of is that a soul has been lost at sea!

 

Also, I do not subscribe to any social media - this forum is as close as I get. If people are scared off from cruising by media sensationalism, that is their decision.

 

 

Cheers

 

Police have made a public announcement on TV! A deliberate action on the part of the missing person is how they put it

[ilikeanswers]

So tragic an event, especially for her family who are left with a lot of unanswered questions as to why she would commit such a selfish act. Just so sad.

 

In one article it was said she had a history of mental illness:(. While sad for the family it is perhaps not so much a mystery to them :rolleyes:.

[Expat Cruise]

I love all the false news and statements that seem to always be posted by social media. It is posted person is overboard and then comes the postings, questioning the ship, the crew, the policies, the poor soul, before the facts are even known. How about wait for the facts and then pass judgments?

 

And now the facts, she jumped off the ship. She cost the Government and the cruise line hundreds of thousands of dollars. People lives were placed in danger during the search, and the passengers had their cruise affected. All because the passenger jump off the ship. I think the bill for this should be sent to the estate of the woman. The only good thing here is no one else was hurt or killed in the search.