Incident on Pacific Dawn

[Tigerlily75]

I'm really sorry you had to experience that Kiwi_cruiser

[Expat Cruise]

Link to the AUDIO: CAPTAIN’S ANNOUNCEMENT to the guest and crew that the cruise lines has called off the search and will head to port. About 2 minutes in length. Still no ID of the guest just that she is 47year old woman from Brisbane.

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-13/search-called-off-for-missing-cruise-ship-passenger/9652232

[CupcakeSusie]

The photo in the following news story shows the railing she fell over. It doesn’t look like the top deck to me.

Personally, I believe the eye witness. That railing does look low.

she walked over to a deck and began to vomit while leaning over a railing of the Pacific Dawn. She then lost her footing.

Her account of the woman’s final moments appears to confirm earlier reports that the woman was unwell before she went overboard.

“(She was) vomiting outside, near the table tennis area” the guest on-board recalled, the Courier Mailreports.

“Leaning over, not far over, then she fell. When she went over he collapsed.”

The guest claimed that there was no freak wave that hit the ship before the victim lost her footing and fell overboard.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/first-photo-from-inside-tragic-po-pacific-dawn-cruise-as-eyewitness-comes-forward/news-story/ba694166449afa4a252b6fbf25c046c8

[fishtaco]

In my opinion the search was called off way too early,if an epirb was set off in any other circumstance the search would have still been on and would have included other search ships and search planes no matter how remote or how long they take to get to the search area,this has been well documented in the past.

 

Somebody has to pay and this search is a P&O cost,if it was at taxpayers cost the search would still be on.

[MicCanberra]

Very sad for the lady and her family.

 

There is a lot of fake news going around.

Anyone who has cruised would know that no one falls off a ship unless they have put themselves into a position of danger to start with. If it was off the top deck, chances are she was dead when she hit the water or even before if she hit something on the way down. The crew member alerted the accident straight away and if the photo is correct, it looks like the life ring was only metres from her but she was already sinking. As for a wave washing her off, absolutely no chance (unless she was hanging off the ship by a rope) as the seas were only 4 metres and wouldn't get to the promenade deck.

Still very sad.

[possum52]

The photo in the following news story shows the railing she fell over. It doesn’t look like the top deck to me.

Personally, I believe the eye witness. That railing does look low.

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http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/first-photo-from-inside-tragic-po-pacific-dawn-cruise-as-eyewitness-comes-forward/news-story/ba694166449afa4a252b6fbf25c046c8

 

 

I agree CupcakeSusie, the photo shown doesn't look like the top deck, more like the promenade deck.

 

Leigh

[MicCanberra]

In my opinion the search was called off way too early,if an epirb was set off in any other circumstance the search would have still been on and would have included other search ships and search planes no matter how remote or how long they take to get to the search area,this has been well documented in the past.

 

Somebody has to pay and this search is a P&O cost,if it was at taxpayers cost the search would still be on.

The P&O called off their search as the Maritime officials had called it off. Personally, I doubt the search would still be on unless the family was paying for it.

 

I do think that every life ring and life vest on these ships should be fitted with a water activated (just like the light) location finder, although in this case it is likely it would not have saved the lady as she didn't have hold of the life ring.

[NSWP]

I agree CupcakeSusie, the photo shown doesn't look like the top deck, more like the promenade deck.

 

Leigh

 

Having been on the ship when she was Regal Princess, I agree the photo is of promenade deck 7.

 

No doubt the true story will come out , many passenger and crew statements taken or will be taken.

[Brisbane41]

The photo in the following news story shows the railing she fell over. It doesn’t look like the top deck to me.

Personally, I believe the eye witness. That railing does look low.

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http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/first-photo-from-inside-tragic-po-pacific-dawn-cruise-as-eyewitness-comes-forward/news-story/ba694166449afa4a252b6fbf25c046c8

 

The railing is not low and does not look low at all. If you look closely to the man leaning on it then you will see the railing is above his hip bone and probably just above his belly button level. Given the width of the rail it would take a tremendous amount of upper body strength to lift your self to a point so high that your body has just enough balance to pivot over the side and strength is generally not what sick people have who are about to throw up.

 

It is clear in the safety instructions that you are not to throw anything over the side and leaning over the side to vomit is reckless and irresponsible and a total disregard for your own safety. It is not only that but it is also revolting and disgusting to think that someone would rather have their vomit splattered down the side of the ship opposed to an area that can be cleaned up and contained.

 

To go a bit further if you look at the person dressed in red in that photo who is leaning over you can see that the railings would be where he is resting his rib cage and it is perfectly level for him to rest his elbows. This level is far too high for anyone to fall over be it with waves or no waves. It is just not going to happen.

 

In my view someone would have to find a foothold on the side and balance their belly button or waistline on the railing in order to be in a position for them to lose their balance.

 

I say this based on the face that I am a fit and active person who works out regularly at the gym and puts myself in all sorts of physical and resistance type positions and know where the balance and pivot point are on my body to get more strength and work certain muscle groups.

 

That railing height would have met the minimum level for safe railing heights for the ship and it is very clear that it would be impossible for anyone to fall over from that railing unless they got a foothold, lifted them self up and put the majority of their body over the side of the ship. If so then it is just totally reckless and irresponsible and a complete disregard for your own safety and well being.

 

One might ask would you unscrew and work on an electrical power point while the power is still on? apply that analogy to leaning over the side of a ship to throw up and it pretty much sums up that it is just sheer stupidity and not a freak accident in anyway, shape or form. This was not an accident, it was complete negligence and disregard for your own life.

[Pushka]

A witness said she was unwell and lost her footing. I hope all those who said this was impossible think about what they’ve said. Those who criticise her for vomiting over the side, great that you are perfect, most of us aren’t. Fine for those who are experienced on ships here to sprout off, stuff happens. I’d say most people would instinctively vomit over the side. It isn’t clever if you are experienced in maritime issues to say she was stupid. It will indeed be determined an accident, shame on those who try to make it sound like some sinister intention to harm or stupidly reckless. Callous bunch here indeed. Hope none of your loved ones make a silly mistake along these lines, and you suffer such a loss. But it might make you think and realise people aren’t perfect.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited April 13, 2018 by Pushka

[Scottygirl1]

There are only three ways you can fall of a cruise ship.

 

1.) suicide

 

2.) murder

 

3.) deliberate/negligent/skylarking behaviour.

 

Just heard on the radio that P&O has disputed the version of events and that police will begin an investigation when the ship docks in Brisbane. Police are to meet the ship. The coroner has ordered the police investigation and they will not speculate further at this stage.

 

Normally I would agree with you but if you look at the photo on one of those links, the height of the railing is waist height. If you were leaning over being sick and the ship lurched that side due to high seas it is entirely possible to fall over. I know the railing on the Ovation of the Seas we were just on was much higher everywhere in the ship and it would have been impossible to accidentally fall overboard.

[Brisbane41]

Normally I would agree with you but if you look at the photo on one of those links, the height of the railing is waist height. If you were leaning over being sick and the ship lurched that side due to high seas it is entirely possible to fall over. I know the railing on the Ovation of the Seas we were just on was much higher everywhere in the ship and it would have been impossible to accidentally fall overboard.

 

Read my above post again. The photo is deceptive. Most human weight distribution is centred around the hips meaning is is impossible to fall over. Minimum railing height is set at 1m, 1000mm or 43.5 inches. add that to the width of the rail which even if at that minimum height the rib cage resting on the rail would prevent a fall as the majority of a humans weight is still below the tipping point when leaning over even when combined with waves.

 

They would have to get their hip up to the level of the rail to lose their balance. No one will ever fall unless their hip is above the rail level. It just will not happen.

[ilikeanswers]

Read my above post again. The photo is deceptive. Most human weight distribution is centred around the hips meaning is is impossible to fall over. Minimum railing height is set at 1m, 1000mm or 43.5 inches. add that to the width of the rail which even if at that minimum height the rib cage resting on the rail would prevent a fall as the majority of a humans weight is still below the tipping point when leaning over even when combined with waves.

 

They would have to get their hip up to the level of the rail to lose their balance. No one will ever fall unless their hip is above the rail level. It just will not happen.

 

But if the ship was lurching has some accounts suggest would that not change the centres of gravity?

 

I do hope there are cameras, that would probably clear everything up:rolleyes:.

[wishfulone]

Those solid balconies are low and lean outward. There's also a sort of lip just above ground level. The poor girl possibly tripped as she approached the rail. So sad.

[Expat Cruise]

People need to grow up and learn to take responsibility. If you are on a cruise ship be careful around the rails and other areas of danger. To many people see cruise ships as a big floating hotel, they are not. People need to accept responsibility for the actions they preform. No one walks up to a rail and tips and then falls over the rail.

 

Look at this statement made a year ago: Michael McGarry, senior vice president of public affairs at Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), said the incidents were "nearly always found to be the unfortunate result of intentional or reckless acts”.

 

And this report:

 

Incidents of people falling off of cruise ships are extremely rare: only about .000085 percent of all passengers, according to one study (more than 21 million people went on cruises last year).

 

That makes sense: Accidentally falling off a cruise ship is extremely hard to do. ****** looked at 80 man and woman overboard cases going back to 2000. They found that many of the victims were drunk, trying to climb railings or balconies, or some combination of the two.

 

Even more rare than someone falling overboard: someone who does so and survives. Out of those 80 incidents looked at, only 16 of the people were rescued. January 2015.

[getting older slowly]

Just one other point, why would you lean over the edge to be sick, surely you would be a be more civilised and go to the toilets, where one could clean up afterwards.

 

A choice which most unfortunately cost them their life.

 

Don

r

[Pushka]

Seriously. If you suddenly feel like you are going to vomit you just look for the seemingly most opportune place. You don’t have time to find a bathroom when it’s sudden onset. Vomiting has nothing to with planning. “Oh, I might just not open my mouth until I can find the toilet, open the door, and get to the loo”. You lurch over the side if that’s where you have to be. Sometimes you just don’t have time to think. She may have been dizzy. Not thinking straight.

 

She’s dead, she (her family and friends) hardly needs the “if only she” “isn’t she stupid” “I wouldn’t do that” “why didn’t she plan” “how impolite she is to vomit in public” “how uncivilised” kind of talk seen here.

[Aus Traveller]

Read my above post again. The photo is deceptive. Most human weight distribution is centred around the hips meaning is is impossible to fall over. Minimum railing height is set at 1m, 1000mm or 43.5 inches. add that to the width of the rail which even if at that minimum height the rib cage resting on the rail would prevent a fall as the majority of a humans weight is still below the tipping point when leaning over even when combined with waves.

 

They would have to get their hip up to the level of the rail to lose their balance. No one will ever fall unless their hip is above the rail level. It just will not happen.

I agree that it would not be easy to fall overboard. The photo shown looks to be on deck 7 promenade and could be illustrating people looking for someone in the water, not showing where she fell from. I am 167cm tall (5'5"). The rails on deck 7 (shown in the photo) are mid-chest-height on me. I am trying to remember of the rails on deck 14 are lower, but they would not be much lower if at all.

[Tigerlily75]

But if the ship was lurching has some accounts suggest would that not change the centres of gravity?

 

I do hope there are cameras, that would probably clear everything up:rolleyes:.

 

I'm positive there will be camera footage, but we're unlikely to hear about it until the investigation is complete.

 

From what I understand there are cameras down all sides of the ship(s). I remember when the couple went over on the Carnival Spirit in I think 2014, and no one even knew they were missing until they didn't get off the ship the next day in Sydney.

 

There was footage of the female going over the cabin balcony, and about 15 seconds later the male going over, presumably to try and save her.

 

That case was huge lesson in what to do and what not to do if someone goes overboard. Call for help first. No one knew they were gone, so they had no chance of survival. That was a very sad case.

[Scottygirl1]

I have a photo of myself and daughter standing on deck 14 of Pacific Jewel and the railing is just above out waist. If this woman was taller and leaning over and the ship lurched I can totally see how this could happen. The photos we took on our balcony, the railing is even lower and it would not have been too hard at all to fall over given the right set of circumstances. As I said, on Ovation the Seas this simply would not have happened as all the balconies were much higher everywhere.

[Swissmiss6253]

I agree with Pushka.

[banzaii]

Read my above post again. The photo is deceptive. Most human weight distribution is centred around the hips meaning is is impossible to fall over. Minimum railing height is set at 1m, 1000mm or 43.5 inches. add that to the width of the rail which even if at that minimum height the rib cage resting on the rail would prevent a fall as the majority of a humans weight is still below the tipping point when leaning over even when combined with waves.

 

 

 

They would have to get their hip up to the level of the rail to lose their balance. No one will ever fall unless their hip is above the rail level. It just will not happen.

 

 

Thoughts are with the family and friends at this tragic time! May her soul rest in peace.

 

Brisbane41

You are clearly forgetting one thing.... Momentum. The railing is set at an outward angle, witnesses have been quoted as saying she stumbled or tripped as she approached the rail. Consider this happening as the ship pitches or rolls and the woman is already frantically looking for somewhere to throw up without making a mess.

 

I think you will need to add a fourth reason why people go overboard and I sincerely hope you have the decency at some point to less assertively express your point of view and show some empathy to those affected by this event.

 

 

Cheers

[Kiwi_cruiser]

In my opinion the search was called off way too early,if an epirb was set off in any other circumstance the search would have still been on and would have included other search ships and search planes no matter how remote or how long they take to get to the search area,this has been well documented in the past..

 

How long should we have searched for??, The Pacific Dawn search for over 10 hours.

[Aus Traveller]

The latest news report indicates that (sadly) the lady jumped. Her husband tried to stop her, but couldn't.

[Scottygirl1]

The latest news report indicates that (sadly) the lady jumped. Her husband tried to stop her, but couldn't.

 

OMG, that's dreadful. I know that what was initially reported had changed and that police boarded the ship immediately. Wow, just awful.