Extra Tipping

[FLACRUISER99]

1 hour ago, NavyCruiser said:

 

So you're sayin' that your "extra Tips" are real Tips, &  Pre-Paid Gratuties / Auto Gratuities are considered Expected... as in expected expenses...?

Yes I always pay my Auto Gratuities and then Tip on top of that.

[leisuretraveler223]

On 6/27/2018 at 10:57 AM, JMTtor said:

the cruise lines don't give all of those auto-tips to the people serving you on your cruise; they skim some off the top for themselves.

 

A lie is still a lie even 18 months later.....

[JMTtor]

To be clear, I never remove the auto gratuities, and I always tip extra directly to people who serve me directly. But I’m not naïve enough to think that those are the only people who get my money from the auto gratuities.

[Wine-O]

2 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

A lie is still a lie even 18 months later.....

 

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” -- Joseph Goebbels  🍷

 

[marci22]

I wouldn't say the skimming comment is a lie, but poorly worded. Royal words their gratuity explanation to include 'behind the scenes' people in 'other departments'. Basically, they can do as they wish with 'tips'. The consumer doesn't want to think that their 'tips' are wage subsidies. They want to think that they are directly contributing 'extra' to someone. I feel that Royal encourages this vew. So I could see how this might be viewed as skimming.

 

I have also been told by workers that they prefer auto-tips to cash.

[lovescats5]

So, just to ask a question that I know has been asked and answered.....What would a concierge do that would get him/her an additional tip?  Never have had one (had plenty of genies) and will have one in March on Liberty.  Not sure what they need to do to get the extra money from us.  According to most of the comments it is their job to help us (at least that is what most of you are saying about waiters, stewards, etc) so how do they go above and beyond?

[Clarea]

1 hour ago, lovescats5 said:

So, just to ask a question that I know has been asked and answered.....What would a concierge do that would get him/her an additional tip?  Never have had one (had plenty of genies) and will have one in March on Liberty.  Not sure what they need to do to get the extra money from us.  According to most of the comments it is their job to help us (at least that is what most of you are saying about waiters, stewards, etc) so how do they go above and beyond?

 

Find a way to get you a reservation to a restaurant or excursion that is booked.

[vacationlover_mn]

Here is what we do- leave auto grats in place.  If we do UDP, we tip extra at the restaurants.  Even if we get boozy package, we tip $1 per drink.

[BillHana]

The video link posted by JMTtor is a real eye-opener for me. I always felt if I did the prepaid tips I was doing the right thing for the workers. Looks like that is really just the company agreed upon wage. After 20+ cruises I will now change my ways to give additional cash. Are they required to report cash tips?

Is there any tactful way to give cash to the stateroom attendant during the cruise and not at the end?

 

[hal2008]

 

 

Workers prefer personal cash tips that is theirs and they dont have to share.

When spoken in confidence of their native language, they readily voice their obvious preference.

(you actually find out lots of inside information about ship, ports, etc along with much better personal service - most authentic food on any cruise line is what chef make for their own team)

 

 

If you are type of cruiser who NEVER go to MDR, why would you want to auto-tip staff there?

 

Everyone entitled their opinion and style. I prefer to tip personal service (early or immediately, not all on the last evening)

[hal2008]

By the way, why is the content of that video posted by JMTtor a surprise?

Isnt the exploitation well known?? 

 

It is similar to 19th centuary Bostonian willing to buy cotton products from deep South fully knowing that it is cheaper due to free slave labor.

 

Or modern day consumer willing to buy Made in China clothing fully knowing why it is so cheap.

 

 

 

[hal2008]

9 hours ago, marci22 said:

 

 

I have also been told by workers that they prefer auto-tips to cash.

 

Did you really think they will dare to tell a stranger how they really feel and risk being sent packing home with debt to agency still unpaid?

 

If you really want to know the truth (and it is fine if you dont want to), seek out a person who has been in industry few years, speak in their native language to win their confidence and make them willing to share their story. But you may not want to do it as it is very depressing -  enough to ruin your vacation mood. (provided you have iota of empathy)

 

Please tip extra if you can for reasonble service (at least to the stateroom attendant and the WJ staff if you use WJ at all).  Just one less speciality drink per peson for the entire cruise and using that money in cash tipping will make a difference to some family.

 

 

[brillohead]

1 hour ago, hal2008 said:

If you really want to know the truth (and it is fine if you dont want to), seek out a person who has been in industry few years, speak in their native language to win their confidence and make them willing to share their story. But you may not want to do it as it is very depressing -  enough to ruin your vacation mood. (provided you have iota of empathy)

I have spoken with many, many employees through the years -- room attendants, bar staff, and MDR staff.  One MDR waiter had worked for Royal for TWENTY years -- he obviously did not feel like he was being treated poorly.  Other employees I've spoken with have been with Royal for 5-10 years, and had previously worked for other cruise lines but preferred working for Royal.  

That's good enough for me.  

As for the whole "subsidizing the wages" argument, I don't understand the basis of that argument -- whether it's paid as the daily service charge or the cost of the cruise fare, the passenger is always subsidizing the wages of the employee... that's how business works. 

When I shop for groceries, I subsidize the wages of the stockers and cashiers.  When I put gasoline in my car, I subsidize the wages of the gas station employees and the trucker who delivered the fuel and the petroleum workers.  When I buy something on Amazon, I subsidize the wages of the Amazon employees and the workers who manufactured the item and the USPS/UPS/Prime delivery people.  

Why is this even a discussion????

 

[hal2008]

8 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I have spoken with many, many employees through the years -- room attendants, bar staff, and MDR staff.  One MDR waiter had worked for Royal for TWENTY years -- he obviously did not feel like he was being treated poorly.  Other employees I've spoken with have been with Royal for 5-10 years, and had previously worked for other cruise lines but preferred working for Royal.  

That's good enough for me.  

As for the whole "subsidizing the wages" argument, I don't understand the basis of that argument -- whether it's paid as the daily service charge or the cost of the cruise fare, the passenger is always subsidizing the wages of the employee... that's how business works. 

When I shop for groceries, I subsidize the wages of the stockers and cashiers.  When I put gasoline in my car, I subsidize the wages of the gas station employees and the trucker who delivered the fuel and the petroleum workers.  When I buy something on Amazon, I subsidize the wages of the Amazon employees and the workers who manufactured the item and the USPS/UPS/Prime delivery people.  

Why is this even a discussion????

 

 

Didnt use the word "subsidizing" anywhere in the quote you are responding to.

What are you ranting about?

If you ranting in response to some other posts, please quote correctly.

 

MDR supervisor or head chef with 10-15-20 years are on different track compared to room attendants and similar staff on first, second or even third contract..

No one is going to take risk of putting their livelihood in jeopardy while on job talking to some stranger in foreign language.

Talk to people in their native language and once they feel not at any risk, you will get the true story.

(in between contract while at home, for example)

 

 

 

[brillohead]

2 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Didnt use the word "subsidizing" anywhere in the quote you are responding to.

What are you ranting about?

If you ranting in response to some other posts, please quote correctly.

 

MDR supervisor or head chef with 10-15-20 years are on different track compared to room attendants and similar staff on first, second or even third contract..

No one is going to take risk of putting their livelihood in jeopardy while on job talking to some stranger in foreign language.

Talk to people in their native language and once they feel not at any risk, you will get the true story.

(in between contract while at home, for example)

So sorry that you have trouble following a conversation, didn't realize that you had reading comprehension issues.  

There is no rule that says you're only allowed to address a single person in a post.  I quoted the part of your post I was referencing, and when I was done with that part of the conversation,  I changed the subject and commented on the "subsidizing" discussion that has also taken place in this thread.  Because, believe it or not, you're not the only person in this discussion.

And I'm not sure why you're bringing up MDR supervisors or head chefs when I specifically said that I talked with MDR waiters, bar staff, and room attendants.  Must be more of your reading comprehension problem, huh?

[scorpluvsdolphins]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:51 PM, JMTtor said:

No question that cruise staff like the auto-grats; I've never messed with those daily charges. But if you want to give extra (understanding that this is TOTALLY up to each individual passenger), the staffers appreciate that in cash, at least according to those with whom I've spoken (admittedly a microscopic portion of the thousands of cruise ship service workers out there).

Most cruise lines, as I understand it, allow you to add extra tips to your onboard account, but then they're apportioned among EVERYONE in your service area; there's no way to give someone who has delivered truly exceptional service a special "extra" tip through your onboard account, so - cash it is if you want to reward a specific individual. If there IS a way to do it through the onboard account, please share - I'd love to get the extra "points" on my RCCL VISA! 😄

Interesting. Just the opposite of what they tell me. I tell them the amount which is the same. I ask if they want me to leave the auto tips and extra cash or take tips off and all cash. They, the cabin attendants, and waiters. So the assistant waiters get cash too. 100% of the time say all cash. 

[hal2008]

47 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I have spoken with many, many employees through the years -

 

 

 

where? while they were on their jobs?

when? vulnerable half way around the home?

in what language?

 

Sound like a friend of 18th centuary plantation owner saying "all his guys said "yes master" with smile. Must be very happy".

 

All this thread was about needs/reasons for extra tipping.

(and auto-tip vs cash tips)

One doesnt have to if one doesnt want to.

But some truth doesnt hurt. At least that helps CC users like BillHana to reconsider future practices.

 

5 hours ago, BillHana said:

.... After 20+ cruises I will now change my ways to give additional cash.......

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by hal2008

[Johnamac123]

I bring $200 for a one week cruise and divide it between the staff that serve me. That's twice the auto grats amount. 

[brillohead]

4 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

where? while they were on their jobs?

when? vulnerable half way around the home?

in what language?

 

Sound like a friend of 18th centuary plantation owner saying "all his guys said "yes master" with smile. Must be very happy".

 

All this thread was about needs/reasons for extra tipping.

One doesnt have to if one doesnt want to.

But some truth doesnt hurt. At least that helps CC users like BillHana to reconsider future practices.

I don't know why you can't believe that some employees are actually happy in their jobs, grateful for their jobs, and come back year after year, contract after contract, long-term with the same company. (Makes me wonder what you do that makes all the employees you talk to so miserable.)  People don't return to a company five, seven, ten times when they're not being treated fairly or compensated according to their contract.

And for the record, I've always left my daily service charge intact (and even voluntarily added more when on a hurricane-extended cruise), plus added cash.  

[hal2008]

50 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I
As for the whole "subsidizing the wages" argument, I don't understand the basis of that argument 
Why is this even a discussion????

 

 

The word subsidy was used buy a single user (marci22) single time in one stentance.

It was in context of the video posted above by JMTtor and then he even explains in BOLD, using numerical example, how tips through on-board account helps cruise company decrease its contract obligations.

(I was not aware of this practice by cruise lines)

Yes, it is possible I have reading comprehension issues as you accuse, but on the other hand.....

 

[hal2008]

34 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I don't know why you can't believe that some employees are actually happy in their jobs, grateful for their jobs, and come back year after year, contract after contract, long-term with the same company. (Makes me wonder what you do that makes all the employees you talk to so miserable.)  People don't return to a company five, seven, ten times when they're not being treated fairly or compensated according to their contract.
.  

 

 

I am sure you have read up on the retention rate of cruise employees.

Yes, some employees are "happy" (or possibly have no other equivalent alternative)

 

"Makes me wonder what you do that makes all the employees you talk to so miserable"

Thats the point you are missing.

You are talking to them when they are "in service" and while you are a customer.

You get true story/feeling/facts when talking to them in their language while at home when neither you are a customer nor they at work.

 

You do sound like that friend of 18th century plantation owner "when I talked to my friends's guys on the farm they all said they were happy. They were there for 5-10-20 years and no one ran away. They must be very happy".

 

Lets face it

Cruise industry's success and low prices are dependent on exploitation of foreign workers

Coal mining in Apalachhia in 19th centuary dependent on exploitation of Irish immigrants

Fruits/Vegetables/Mushroom industry today, on exploitations of Mexican immigrants

Cotton Plantations were heavily dependent on free labor of kidnapped Africans.

 

 

When it comes to cruising, one can ignore it or help a little by  changing the personal practice in future by 

a) moving towards cash tips rather than tips through on board account

b) if possible, little bit more generous than what we normally do in other normal service industries (cruising is not normal service industry)

 

Again, just a suggestion on the thread. To each, his own.

Edited January 18, 2020 by hal2008

[marci22]

7 hours ago, hal2008 said:

When it comes to cruising, one can ignore it or help a little by  changing the personal practice in future by 

a) moving towards cash tips rather than tips through on board account

b) if possible, little bit more generous than what we normally do in other normal service industries (cruising is not normal service industry)

 

Again, just a suggestion on the thread. To each, his own.

I don't think the people who are paying through onboard account are the problem. Even if they don't 'tip extra'. It's the people who are not tipping at all. And they are only a problem to the extent that other people are made to feel guilty for not tipping on top of their auto grats.

 

'Tips' are a subsidy. I don't know why that phrasing is problematic or why people need to say the company is going get it one way or another. We know that. What I don't like is people guilting other people into paying 'tips' their way. There is no 'right way'. Royal has a way they would like you to do things. Fine. They also accept other ways of paying, and will accept complete removal of tips. Fine. That is their business model. 

 

Royal says their 'tips' may go to the people who directly serve you but also those who are behind the scenes and in other departments. That's not really a tip. It's extra money on top of your cruise fare that some people pay and some people don't. I find the process annoying but I still follow it in some fashion (auto grats or cash). But some people do nothing. You can't change that, but I find it extremely annoying when people are made to feel insecure that they have not tipped 'enough' once they have paid auto grats. And Royal encourages this feeling. 

[springfire]

We usually remove the auto tips and tip in cash.  We prefer to tip in cash directly.

[Saab4444]

8 hours ago, hal2008 said:

 

 

I am sure you have read up on the retention rate of cruise employees.

Yes, some employees are "happy" (or possibly have no other equivalent alternative)

 

"Makes me wonder what you do that makes all the employees you talk to so miserable"

Thats the point you are missing.

You are talking to them when they are "in service" and while you are a customer.

You get true story/feeling/facts when talking to them in their language while at home when neither you are a customer nor they at work.

 

You do sound like that friend of 18th century plantation owner "when I talked to my friends's guys on the farm they all said they were happy. They were there for 5-10-20 years and no one ran away. They must be very happy".

 

Lets face it

Cruise industry's success and low prices are dependent on exploitation of foreign workers

Coal mining in Apalachhia in 19th centuary dependent on exploitation of Irish immigrants

Fruits/Vegetables/Mushroom industry today, on exploitations of Mexican immigrants

Cotton Plantations were heavily dependent on free labor of kidnapped Africans.

 

 

When it comes to cruising, one can ignore it or help a little by  changing the personal practice in future by 

a) moving towards cash tips rather than tips through on board account

b) if possible, little bit more generous than what we normally do in other normal service industries (cruising is not normal service industry)

 

Again, just a suggestion on the thread. To each, his own.

Please keep in mind that countries like the Philippines and Indonesia have been seafarers nations for centuries. All seafarers are comparably rich people at home. The local economy will never provide similar jobs to them, they would have to work even harder for less money. Local cost of living are very low and no one should compare it to living in America or Europe. It is still a win-win for all parties involved. To tell sad stories because they know that especially Americans love to tip big and extra is part of the game. We pay the (alway increasing) suggested amount because it is common practice but this is more than sufficient in most cases.

[leisuretraveler223]

100 posts beating a dead horse.  Tip. Don't tip. Use auto tips. Tip on your own.  Believe whatever baseless conspiracy theory about tips you want to.  No one is changing anyone's mind.  Do whatever you want and shut up about it....