Viking Sky position, adrift off Norway Coast and evacuating Passengers & Crew

[AmazedByCruising]

3 hours ago, cmaasfamily said:

 

I love the idea of an upbeat, we're-getting-ready-for-you approach. Thirty years in business tells me marketing's enthusiasm gets thrown to the floor and gagged when they run something like that by legal. 🙂  

 

By the time they vet it, scrub it, water it down, the ship will have sailed. (see what I did there?)

 

Can't find the exact quote but Peter Thiel seems to have said something about PayPal like "You aren't really going to tell 30,000 small entrepreneurs in your state to stop because we're not a bank as you know it, are you?". Always listening to "legal" would have stopped PayPal, cars, planes, and most certainly cruises. 

[Haworth]

1 hour ago, azdrydock said:

What was quoted refers to liability and property law

For the purpose of general photography, with some exceptions, if you have the right to be in a space, public or privately owned, you have a right to take photographs unless specifically prohibited. On a ship if you are in an area that that you are not prohibited from being in, snap away. The T&C’s of the cruise may restrict what you can do with the photos, and use of social media. Privacy and permission laws usually apply to the photographer’s intent; if the picture is of copyrighted material, used to insult, shame etc. the photographer is in trouble. If the pictures are describing a news event normally no permission is required except in rare conditions such as government restricted locations. 45 years ago the “news” use was restricted to credentialed news photographers and organizations but I  that is currently true. Most news organizations will edit and blur if so requested; not true on social media. I think the internet pictures did an excellent job of describing the situation in real time, no ones privacy was invaded and there was no intent to defame Viking or anyone else.

Except (I assume ) you were not there and nor were your family wondering what was happening, common decency should trump all the above

[Canal archive]

Copyright and intellectual property rights can be extremely convoluted and as long as you are not making profit from and anyone else is not using your property for gain you are usually okay. Most holiday images wherever they are taken are fine but I can see with the advent of social media into all aspects of life challenges arising, I.e. other media using your images etc it’s your copyright, do you challenge and then gain from your image. Discuss.

 

I really do hope that everyone involved in this incident has no lasting complications, the expert contributors have been absolutely excellent, carry on the good work, but I still will not be taking a sea cruise it’s the rivers for me, far to much deep sea experience in the past. CA

[nybumpkin]

4 hours ago, Pratique said:

 Lawyers are risk adverse, sometimes to the detriment of the business (unintended consequences).

 

I'm my company's legal department.  Actually, I like to describe it as a three-person legal department called "Me, Myself and I."😊 I'm also one of the members of our rapid response team.  Fortunately in my business we don't deal with Viking Sky-type situations, but we do need to be able to react quickly while keeping the best interests of the company in mind. While I may recommend (and that's what I do, recommend - the company, as my client, has the final say) certain language in a statement that I think will best serve the company, the rapid response team as a whole approves the response.

[just_dont]

4 hours ago, Pushka said:

If you are publishing anything online then that could be deemed to be profiting, especially these days for instagrammers and so on. And maybe it’s a moral compass thing. When people are in distress, eg as in Sky, then I would never think that posting recognisable photos of them online is acceptable. But of course I’m assuming that no consent was obtained. 

 

In many countries you cannot take photos of people. And some people in tourist areas insist that a photo taken of them = money please. So for me the bottom line and safest line is don’t take photos of people if they can be recognised without consent. 

 

^This. 

Common decency should have prevented the posting of those images.  Maybe not taking them, for personal use only, but posting in an extremely public forum like Twitter without attempting to protect the identity of the subjects should not have been done, whether or not it may have been legal.

 

In that regard, look up the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) of the EU.

From Wikipedia:

"The GDPR aims primarily to give control to individuals over their personal data...."

"No personal data may be processed unless it is done under a lawful basis specified by the regulation, or unless the data controller or processor has received an unambiguous and individualized affirmation of consent from the data subject. The data subject has the right to revoke this consent at any time."

"According to the European Commission, 'personal data is any information relating to an individual, whether it relates to his or her private, professional or public life. It can be anything from a name, a home address, a photo, an email address, bank details, posts on social networking websites, medical information, or a computer's IP address.'"

"The GDPR was adopted on 14 April 2016, and became enforceable beginning 25 May 2018. As the GDPR is a regulation, not a directive, it is directly binding and applicable...."

 

I am not a lawyer, but in my job we have to deal with the fact that the regulation exists, and it has been VERY broadly interpreted.  If any of those passengers are citizens of the EU (as any British passengers are - at least for a couple more weeks😉), a photo of them COULD be interpreted as their "personal data" and subject to the consent requirement of the GDPR.  It doesn't matter that the photo was taken in Norway (not the EU), the person taking the photo was an American, and the photo was posted on Twitter (a US company), if the subject was a citizen of the EU, the GDPR would apply.  Though again, I am not a lawyer.

 

Take a look at Google Street View of public streets in Europe.  They have intentionally blurred all faces in every frame of Google Street View, despite the fact that literally every one of those images is a "public space."

 

[helen haywood]

The trouble with “common decency” is it’s not as common as you would wish.

[Hanoj]

47 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

The trouble with “common decency” is it’s not as common as you would wish.

Nor as decent. 

[PhoenixCruiser]

The trouble with “common decency” is it’s not as common as you would wish.

Same with common sense

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[OnTheJourney]

While the past few pages have been interesting, it does seem that this thread has strayed into a whole different area. Not a problem on my end, but just saying. Guess there really isn't much more to report on the Sky incident at this time. I thank all who contributed to this thread however since it provided much valuable info and helped me to cope with the stress of last Saturday's events and most particularly the evacuation. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by gretschwhtfalcon

[kathy49]

still watching here...so one week and they are sailing again?   Have to wonder about that. Any new reports.  On a trip of that magnitude very hard to cancel any later so I hope they are really sure.

 

[LongRiver]

I have followed this topic with interest and thank all the experts who have contributed.  We are on the next cruise boarding on the 6th April.  The ship is currently at Vestbase Kristiansund where it arrived on Wednesday.  The latest information is the cruise will go ahead.

 

I will not take any photographs of other passengers unless I get written approval!

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, LongRiver said:

I have followed this topic with interest and thank all the experts who have contributed.  We are on the next cruise boarding on the 6th April.  The ship is currently at Vestbase Kristiansund where it arrived on Wednesday.  The latest information is the cruise will go ahead.

 

I will not take any photographs of other passengers unless I get written approval!

 

What?  You don't want to take my picture?  What's wrong with you?

 

(Kidding)

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

What?  You don't want to take my picture?  What's wrong with you?

 

(Kidding)

I will express my gratitude for those who did take and immediately post photos during the Viking Sky incident.  We had 2 family members on that cruise and I was able to spot one of them on a Twitter photo...taken while they were sitting at their muster station.  Thanks to that photo we knew they were doing OK (we were later able to text them).  I do recall a legal decision (somewhere) that if you are in a place where you "do not have the expectation of privacy" you have little recourse if photographed.  Lawyers can probably spend 100,000 words talking about this subject, but then finally reach the same conclusion :).

 

Hank

[noche_caliente]

On 3/25/2019 at 5:03 PM, Hanoj said:

There's that saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

And that saying is incredibly rude and demeaning to teachers.  Many teachers HAVE done, and then take that knowledge to the classroom to enrich the lives of others.

[Nightrythm]

22 hours ago, just_dont said:

I am not a lawyer, but in my job we have to deal with the fact that the regulation exists, and it has been VERY broadly interpreted.  If any of those passengers are citizens of the EU (as any British passengers are - at least for a couple more weeks😉), a photo of them COULD be interpreted as their "personal data" and subject to the consent requirement of the GDPR.  It doesn't matter that the photo was taken in Norway (not the EU), the person taking the photo was an American, and the photo was posted on Twitter (a US company), if the subject was a citizen of the EU, the GDPR would apply.  Though again, I am not a lawyer.

 

I am not a lawyer either, but I work with them and have worked with my company on making sure we are GDPR compliant. GDPR does not apply to individuals. If someone wants to argue that Twitter violates GDPR by allowing these pictures to be posted, they can go have that legal fight in the EU.

 

However, the individual posting is most definitely NOT bound by GDPR and is perfectly entitled to post newsworthy photos where they wish. Sure, it would be nice if they'd asked permission, but they don't have to; particularly under these circumstances. 

[OnTheJourney]

11 hours ago, LongRiver said:

I have followed this topic with interest and thank all the experts who have contributed.  We are on the next cruise boarding on the 6th April.  The ship is currently at Vestbase Kristiansund where it arrived on Wednesday.  The latest information is the cruise will go ahead.

 

I will not take any photographs of other passengers unless I get written approval!

 

Can't believe they will have that ship ready to go out by the 6th. The Explorer Lounge alone seems like it could take a week or more to get back in shape. Oh well, 'the show must go on' as the saying goes. Take pictures around the ship and repost them here...would love to see how things look. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by gretschwhtfalcon

[Pushka]

2 hours ago, gretschwhtfalcon said:

 

Can't believe they will have that ship ready to go out by the 6th. The Explorer Lounge alone seems like it could take a week or more to get back in shape. Oh well, 'the show must go on' as the saying goes. Take pictures around the ship and repost them here...would love to see how things look. 

 

There would be multitudes of teams working on different areas so while it might take a week to sort out the Explorer lounge there will be other teams working in the other areas. 

[OnTheJourney]

I just hope that something is done for the crew that was onboard in the way of additional compensation, etc. They were just amazing during the whole crisis. 

[just_dont]

I just hope that something is done for the crew that was onboard in the way of additional compensation, etc. They were just amazing during the whole crisis. 

With you passengers having your cruise refunded, they probably also didn't charge you the automatic gratuities. I hope Viking AT LEAST provides them the gratuities they would have gotten.

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[OnTheJourney]

I never thought about the gratuities! I certainly would not have wanted that back but fairly certain it was included in the refund. 

[just_dont]

I never thought about the gratuities! I certainly would not have wanted that back but fairly certain it was included in the refund. 

You, as a passenger on that cruise, might be able to inquire with Viking through tellus. But I imagine they probably wouldn't even tell you how they plan to compensate the crew for the lost gratuities and special circumstances. Really, I guess it's none of our (or even your) business, despite your best intentions.

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[Haworth]

4 hours ago, just_dont said:

You, as a passenger on that cruise, might be able to inquire with Viking through tellus. But I imagine they probably wouldn't even tell you how they plan to compensate the crew for the lost gratuities and special circumstances. Really, I guess it's none of our (or even your) business, despite your best intentions.

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Given that Viking have to date done (as far as we are concerned) everything right for the passengers, I would trust that they would also treat the crew equally correctly and additionally give an extra something to the 3 younger passengers who all worked in the emergency services and gave fantastic support to the crew in the theatre

[newcruiser1956]

4 hours ago, gretschwhtfalcon said:

I never thought about the gratuities! I certainly would not have wanted that back but fairly certain it was included in the refund. 

Since you were on the ship,  could you share with us how they decided the order of who was going up in the helicopters after the obviously injured ones?  

[Haworth]

24 minutes ago, newcruiser1956 said:

Since you were on the ship,  could you share with us how they decided the order of who was going up in the helicopters after the obviously injured ones?  

Most of us on board puzzled about this, we came to the conclusion that it was random, if for example they had done by by row in the theatre then passengers may have started to move to get "better " positions.

 

We had a man with a large head cut near us and he waited a long time for his turn for evacuation

[The_Big_M]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:03 AM, Pushka said:

 

To be honest I think your first statement is true. When at an airport as an example  I never take photos of people where they can be identified. And that is a public space. I do know here in Australia that parents have been prevented from taking photos of groups of children at their various group activities. I think that’s taking things too far but that seems to be the trend. 

 

 

That's again for a different reason. 

 

There's a general 'sensitivity' towards photos of children here because of very few people doing it for inappropriate reasons. This is in a similar way to some airlines not seating unaccompanied children beside male passengers on flights.

 

t's not to do with public spaces, as your statement even makes no reference to the location e.g. it could be anywhere including completely public spaces.