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Dog living on Anthem and peeing everywhere ...

noyes66

By noyes66,
in Royal Caribbean International

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GUEST71919

GUEST71919

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Maybe you don’t understand the basic difference between specifically trained and professionally trained.

Oh I understand, I assure you - I frequently must make judgments about the criteria after all.  But this is just plain silly – you suggested that an animal could just spontaneously turn into an assistance animal and I said that was not so that training was required. Now you have dropped that argument and you are quibbling over the training being “specifically” versus “professionally”? My point is, and was, that they must be trained to qualify and that applies to both the US and AU. 

 

Please note that I am going to stop following this thread because this part of the discussion has become pointless and ridiculous.  But feel free to keep on arguing with a blank space where I use to be if it makes you happy 🙋🏼‍♀️

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GUT2407

GUT2407

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually many dogs spontaneously learn to alert for Diabetes, Deafness etc.

 

 

I am actually involved in a number of areas of service dogs including certification for Delta Dogs, (that visit hospitals).

Edited by GUT2407
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kusuriurikun

kusuriurikun

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

The point started with someone, and I’m sorry I mistakenly thought it was the same poster, saying service dogs should be professionally trained.

 

I know there's been a lot of back and forth on what counts as a service animal vs assistance animal, laws in the US vs Australia, but as pretty much all RCI ships are flagged as being registered in the Bahamas technically Bahamian law would apply. 

 

(tl;dr summary of below--not only are some breeds outright prohibited even as service animals, "service animal" is defined strictly enough under Bahamian law that "self-trained" dogs don't qualify unless they're explicitly trained to perform an alert or "protect" action, and therapy dogs and "emotional support" animals certainly don't qualify.)

 

For starters (unlike many places in the US, but similarly to certain provinces of Canada as well as the UK and much of Europe) there are "breed ban" laws that essentially ban "pit bull" type dogs and crossbreeds (including not only the four breeds generally considered as true pit bulls, but Cane Corso and Dogo Argentino derived bullmastiff breeds)--and no, you cannot bring a "pittie" on board or into the Bahamas, not even if it has been fully certified as being trained to perform a service such as a "Helping Hand" dog or seizure-alert dog or PTSD alert dog (probably the three most common categories you'd see "pitties" performing legit service animal duty).  And yes, there do seem to be a fair number of "pitties" trained specificially as PTSD dogs for veterans in particular, so that's an important thing to keep in mind.

 

Bahamian law also explicitly defines an assistance dog as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with disabilities, including physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disabilities" (Animal Protection and Control Act, 2010); "self trained" animals are not legally recognised as assistance animals in the Bahamas unless they have had some form of formal assistance dog training.  (In the case of legitimate PTSD alert dogs, this would be specific training to sense when the owner is in fact having a PTSD crisis and performing a specific action--covering their human, or getting their human away from a stressor.  For dogs sensing seizures, a dog's trained service would be to explicitly get their human to a safe spot and remain with their human until the seizure has passed.  In the case of "hearing ear" dogs, the trained service is to alert the owner to sounds in the environment using visual cues.  For "glucose monitor" dogs the trained service is, again, to get the owner to safety and to alert the owner appropriately if it smells the blood sugar is going too low or too high.) 

 

"Emotional support animals" not trained to do a specific alerting service or specific assistance task do not legally qualify as assistance animals, and technically "Delta Dogs"/"Pet Partners" legally would not qualify as legitimate assistance dogs under Bahamian law (or even under the US's ADA) as they are not trained to perform a specific task including alerting or getting a human to safety.  (In fact, Pet Partners--the American affiliate of the Delta Dogs programme--has actually issued a formal position statement explicitly stating "therapy dogs are not assistance animals" and therapy animals should not be passed off as assistance animals.)  as

 

Furthermore, again under Bahamian law (section 28 of the Animal Protection and Control Act, 2010) legitimate service dogs under Bahamian law (again, that are explicitly trained to perform an essential service including alerting of owner to health conditions) are still required to be controlled by their owners, and "the person whom the dog is accompanying must comply with any reasonable conditions imposed by the occupier or person controlling the premises or place in relation to the entry or presence of the dog".   This includes prohibition on animals being "at large" as defined in section 10 in the Act, which includes prohibition on the dog being a "public nuisance".  Bahamian law further (in section 27, subsections 1(b) and (c) of the Act) explicitly list as offenses any act where a dog "deposits faeces on property other than property of the keeper and the person fails to collect the faeces and dispose of it in a reasonable manner; or repeatedly soils, with urine or faeces, property of, or under the care of, another person without that other person's consent".  Section 27, subsection 4 of the Act further explicitly notes anyone taking "a dog into a public place in contravention of subsection (1) commits an offence".

 

So if anything, the laws in the Bahamas (which is the flag registry of RCI's fleet) are actually rather stricter than in the US law (US law allows service horses for persons allergic to dogs but requiring a service animal, among other things).

 

In addition, the Bahamian government (unlike the US) actually has explicitly authorised a certification scheme for legitimate service animals (specifically in section 23 of its equivalent to the ADA, the Persons With Disabilities (Equal Opportunities) Act, 2014) to be done in conjunction with the Ministry for control and protection of animals.  (In other words, unlike the US, yes, the Bahamian government CAN very much ask "What service does this animal provide?" and even ask for specific paperwork from the training facility or (for personally trained animals) documentation of the training programme and the specific task or tasks the dog performs.)

Edited by kusuriurikun
More info re Bahamian equivalent of ADA
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ipeeinthepool

ipeeinthepool

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

Well the little barkers, are much better than the children aboard many vessels, so I don't see the problem. I am thankful that Virgin will be child free!

 

If it will also be ESA free, then you would really have something

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vacationlover_mn Great Review Rare

vacationlover_mn

Posted
Posted
On 3/30/2019 at 4:15 AM, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Sadly...some other folks (not you) don't understand the impact upon people with allergies or other health elements...a quickie wash-off may not resolve the matter for those victims. That's why this thread lingers.

 

Apparently some folks don't take this issue serious enough based on lack of knowledge, understanding, empathy, or some combination of all of those elements. The fact that cruise lines have written policies and action items related to this legitimate problem should demonstrate it is indeed a problem.

 

The fact that there are so many hundreds of posts and tens of thousands of reads on this topic underscores that plenty of people are and would be impacted by this. The best way to solve a problem is to eliminate the circumstances that can create it.

Sometimes I disagree with you... this time I don’t!! 🙂

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pamwigs

pamwigs

Posted
Posted
On 3/23/2019 at 9:53 AM, davekathy said:

Unfortunately your request will never be granted, no matter where you are.  I don't believe those bringing their pets with them even have to prove anything to the cruise lines.  

Well that sucks. You need their shot record to board. It would be even more important on a cruise ship.

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maria1122

maria1122

Posted
Posted

On the Anthem now.  We were in port and sitting on our balcony and my husband  

told me to look at the dog.  Across the way another RC ship was docked.  There was a girl running the length of the ship with a medium size white poodle on a very long leash getting their exercise.

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island lady "Live from...." Rare

island lady

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/2/2019 at 10:43 PM, ONECRUISER said:

Not bad, I always referred to it as People Soup 

 

Good description also...and perhaps cleaner than "bacteria soup"....then again...or is it?  😉 :classic_wacko:

Edited by island lady
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Retired LEO

Retired LEO

Posted
Posted
On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:04 AM, island lady said:

 

I call them "bacteria soup".  LOL!!  😉 

 

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:43 PM, ONECRUISER said:

Not bad, I always referred to it as People Soup 

 

3 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Human Soup is it’s name in our house. 

Anyway you want to look at it it's still "Pee" soup

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