Redoing and Renaming ships - what is the reason?

[Oceansaway17]

Any interesting thoughts on why Carnival has started the trend of not only renovating their ships but giving them a new identity and new name?

 

Were this ships under performing?  Why new names?  What do you think and has anyone been on the old and new version of either ships?

 

Just wanted to start the topic because they have now done two ships.  Other lines have not done this, they just sell their ships.

[hotsauce126]

They're different enough that they can market them as new ships. Most people (and I said most before 1000 old people quote me and say they like old ships) don't care to cruise on old ships like the fantasy class. Destiny class was the next oldest but more similar in size to the current classes

[evandbob]

To me, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.  The old ship was old for a reason.  I sailed Destiny in 2008 and it was old then.

 

Carnival re -does the ship to lessen public space, and to add more cabins and other revenue generating venues.

 

I'll stick to the newer ships, except when casino fares snare me on the Conquest class.

Edited April 5, 2019 by evandbob

[UnorigionalName]

Other lines are also starting to spend BIG money renovating ships.  RCC did this with Mariner and is planning for it on more of that class.  Celebrity is currently on plan to renovate like their whole fleet (to the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the celebrity sub-forum). 

 

The big reason is that the 100+ ton cruise ship format is super popular and there are only so many shipyards in the world capable of building these ships.  Profits are good right now and demand far outstrips supply.   The orderbook for the shipyards is completely packed for like the next 5+ years. (https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/cruise-ship-orderbook.html)

 

People like new ships and the demand is MUCH higher for new ships.  New ships sail at a premium compared to older models.  So that's why like all the major cruiselines are shifting and refurbishing instead of selling these megaships.

 

Carnival must think renaming the ships is a better business move than not.  I would guess that since their fleet is so large, and i would guess their average customer goes on less cruises, that they have less loyalty/preference to any particular ship instead of the brand as a whole.

[shof515]

The Carnival Triumph has a horrible history of becoming the Poop ship. It makes sense to rename the ship to get rid of the past 

[Joebucks]

It's all marketing. Customers fall for marketing.

 

What sounds better to the average person? Come sail the Triumph that is almost 20 years old or come sail the "new" Sunrise, with new venues? 

 

I think what's even more interesting is that they have clearly elected to skip over the Fantasy class. Does that mean they don't have a future?

[wemjam]

The one thing I can't help but think though... isn't it "bad luck" to rename a ship lol!

[Doggielover68]

1 hour ago, Oceansaway17 said:

Any interesting thoughts on why Carnival has started the trend of not only renovating their ships but giving them a new identity and new name?

 

Were this ships under performing?  Why new names?  What do you think and has anyone been on the old and new version of either ships?

 

Just wanted to start the topic because they have now done two ships.  Other lines have not done this, they just sell their ships.

 

Rebranding = marketing. 

 

Think about all of those house flipping shows. You take an old house, put new parts inside and make it pretty...the people pay a premium to buy it. 

 

In the same way, it costs Carnival less money to renovate and rebrand ships than building new ships. I think the small ships are just fine for short or port intensive itineraries. Personally, I don't give a hoot about all of the bells and whistles of the new large ships because with more attractions come more crowds. I sail for the ports and the ocean. Give me a clean ship with a good crew and good food and I'll be happy. 

 

 

[PhillyFan33579]

30 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

It's all marketing. Customers fall for marketing.

 

What sounds better to the average person? Come sail the Triumph that is almost 20 years old or come sail the "new" Sunrise, with new venues? 

 

I think what's even more interesting is that they have clearly elected to skip over the Fantasy class. Does that mean they don't have a future?

 

I think the Fantasy class ships are too small to renovate them in a similar fashion to Destiny class ships. I think it is safe to say Fantasy class ships will be around for awhile since Carnival has continued to upgrade these ships during dry docks. 

[Aplmac]

40 minutes ago, wemjam said:

The one thing I can't help but think though...

isn't it "bad luck" to rename a ship lol!

.

That ^ is such a tired old saw.

 

Recent look-ups on Wikipedia, on just about any cruise ship under 100,000 tons

will reveal re-names aplenty!

 

It's almost shocking how many names some of them have had!
One example: Ocean Village Two that I've been on twice.
Several names before OV2 and one or two after, as well.

Cunard Countess is another!

[ray98]

The only ships that were renamed were those modified far beyond a simple dry dock.

[PhillyFan33579]

There have been posts on this and other sites where people have said they thought they were booking a cruise on a new ship when they booked a cruise on Sunrise. I can see that easily happening to someone who Is new to cruising and/or not familiar with Carnival. So that is likely another reason for the name change.  

[mdwcruises]

The ship gets to wipe its history clean and bad reviews and ratings technically don't apply.   

 

EBay, Amazon sellers do something like it all the time.  If a product has good reviews and high ratings the sellers would do everything they can to keep the history.  But if the reviews are no good sellers will try to post it as if it's a new product. 

[dave_k58]

9 hours ago, Joebucks said:

It's all marketing. Customers fall for marketing.

 

What sounds better to the average person? Come sail the Triumph that is almost 20 years old or come sail the "new" Sunrise, with new venues? 

 

I think what's even more interesting is that they have clearly elected to skip over the Fantasy class. Does that mean they don't have a future?

That's what it looks like to me. Also wondering about the Spirit class. 

[cloudninecat]

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

There have been posts on this and other sites where people have said they thought they were booking a cruise on a new ship when they booked a cruise on Sunrise....

Yes, I was told by my PVP that it was a "brand new ship" so I was a little miffed when I found out it was the Triumph. I like the Triumph just fine, she was the first ship I sailed on, and in this case I was buying the itinerary not the ship, however I feel like I was lied to which wasn't cool.  

[RWolver672]

14 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

I think what's even more interesting is that they have clearly elected to skip over the Fantasy class. Does that mean they don't have a future?

 

I think they will always have a future if they want to continue having ships sail from Tampa.  Larger ships can't get under the bridge.  

[Jared100]

29 minutes ago, RWolver672 said:

 

I think they will always have a future if they want to continue having ships sail from Tampa.  Larger ships can't get under the bridge.  

Sooooo lame 

[RWolver672]

13 minutes ago, Jared100 said:

Sooooo lame 

 

Would you mind explaining that.  What is lame about the larger ships can't get under the bridge?  As long as there is a market for Tampa, they will continue to have ships sail from there.  And there are a lot of people that don't like the mega ships and prefer the Fantasy class..

[pe4all]

What is old becomes new again....

[jimbo5544]

18 hours ago, evandbob said:

To me, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.  The old ship was old for a reason.  I sailed Destiny in 2008 and it was old then.

 

Carnival re -does the ship to lessen public space, and to add more cabins and other revenue generating venues.

 

I'll stick to the newer ships, except when casino fares snare me on the Conquest class.

Such a jaundiced view, have you been on the sunshine?   The Sunshine as the Destiny was the lowest rated ship (by her cruisers) and now as the Sunshine consistently ranks in the top 3.  With many new features, room categories, restaurants and way to features to mention saying it is lipstick on a pig is wrong.  Be happy to debate it (if you have sailed her).  

 

Op, it is common (read that as very common) to rename ships after a makeover.  These redo’s are hundreds of millions of dollars and change the vast majority of things the customer face.   

Edited April 6, 2019 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

17 hours ago, shof515 said:

The Carnival Triumph has a horrible history of becoming the Poop ship. It makes sense to rename the ship to get rid of the past 

I doubt you will let that happen

[evandbob]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Such a jaundiced view, have you been on the sunshine?   The Sunshine as the Destiny was the lowest rated ship (by her cruisers) and now as the Sunshine consistently ranks in the top 3.  With many new features, room categories, restaurants and way to features to mention saying it is lipstick on a pig is wrong.  Be happy to debate it (if you have sailed her).  

 

Op, it is common (read that as very common) to rename ships after a makeover.  These redo’s are hundreds of millions of dollars and change the vast majority of things the customer face.   

What is there to debate?  I have my opinion, I'm not sailing OLD ships, even if they have been remodeled to generate more income for the Corporation than that OLD ship did.  Rebranding and repurposing can be an effective technique to get consumers to keep buying a product.

 

I prefer the newer Dream and Vista class ships on Carnival, although I will sail a Conquest class ship for the tiny reduction a casino fare gives me.  I just happen to like the larger, newer ships.  I will be making an exception for the Legend's cruise to Norway though.

 

Nothing wrong with your opinion either, that's why there's no debate.  We are both right if we remain true to ourselves.  Have fun sailing the Sunrise, Sunshine, Sunset, whatever, I'll stick to the type ship that appeals to me.  My opinion may get even more jaundiced after I sail RCCL's Symphony OTS.

[hard_eight]

4 hours ago, RWolver672 said:

 

I think they will always have a future if they want to continue having ships sail from Tampa.  Larger ships can't get under the bridge.  

Same with Jacksonville. Freaking Mayport people won't let them build a port on the sea side of the bridge...

[LJN22]

18 hours ago, Joebucks said:

It's all marketing. Customers fall for marketing.

 

What sounds better to the average person? Come sail the Triumph that is almost 20 years old or come sail the "new" Sunrise, with new venues? 

 

I think what's even more interesting is that they have clearly elected to skip over the Fantasy class. Does that mean they don't have a future?

I disagree that it is all "marketing." Look at the before and after of the Destiny to the Sunshine. It was a completely different ship. if they are adding new venues and cabins and drastically changing the public spaces, how is that marketing? A lot of people do not want to go on old, outdated ships. I look at videos of the fantasy class ships and I would never sail on them. They are horrible looking. So many of the early Carnival ships are Joe Farcus floating nightmares. They need to update and that is what they are doing. The fantasy class will also have a future for budget cruisers, but I think they are trying to expand the market a little. When you look at all RCI has to offer and the new Norwegian ships Carnival really needs to step up their game and it seems as if they are doing it now. I sailed the Horizon last year and I am sailing her again this year. She is a very nice ship and the public spaces are visually pleasing. 

The Triumph may be 20 years old, but if they change everything inside and out (including mechanically) then it will not seem like an old ship. That is an extensive, lengthy and costly dry dock. I sailed the Sunshine last year and loved that ship. Not trying to start a fight, just giving my two cents. 

[jimbo5544]

45 minutes ago, LJN22 said:

I disagree that it is all "marketing." Look at the before and after of the Destiny to the Sunshine. It was a completely different ship. if they are adding new venues and cabins and drastically changing the public spaces, how is that marketing? A lot of people do not want to go on old, outdated ships. I look at videos of the fantasy class ships and I would never sail on them. They are horrible looking. So many of the early Carnival ships are Joe Farcus floating nightmares. They need to update and that is what they are doing. The fantasy class will also have a future for budget cruisers, but I think they are trying to expand the market a little. When you look at all RCI has to offer and the new Norwegian ships Carnival really needs to step up their game and it seems as if they are doing it now. I sailed the Horizon last year and I am sailing her again this year. She is a very nice ship and the public spaces are visually pleasing. 

The Triumph may be 20 years old, but if they change everything inside and out (including mechanically) then it will not seem like an old ship. That is an extensive, lengthy and costly dry dock. I sailed the Sunshine last year and loved that ship. Not trying to start a fight, just giving my two cents. 

Nice post, sometimes even facts confuse some