Extremely Poor behavior in Oceanview Cafe

[philpcruiser]

On 4/26/2019 at 7:06 AM, Bo1953 said:

Okay, if this person has a behavioral or mental health issue, they need to be required to have their handler with them at all times, in public or not sail at all...

 

bon voyage

Or...  Have their emotional support peacock with them!   (Sorry, couldn't resist.)  We need to lighten up this thread a bit.

[philpcruiser]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:04 PM, Luvcrusn said:

I might have felt the same before our dear DIL came into our lives. She has a severe peanut, tree nut allergy. At one time she worked in a restaurant as a server and was sent into a severe reaction that required a hospital visit (despite carrying an EpiPen) from simply wiping a table where customers had eaten a dish containing peanuts. What may seem inconsequential to those unaffected by food allergies/sensitivities may be life threatening to someone affected by those things. We once went to baseball games and consumed peanuts and Cracker Jacks like the song says. Now, we ask everyone around us if they have any peanut issues before we'd ever do that. Her issues have driven home to me the seriousness of these types of problems and also the necessity of being careful. 

Thank you, Thank you for your comment.  Unless you know someone with a severe allergy, you'll never understand.

[jjlen11]

It is highly unfortunate that people must act in that manner.  I have met all types of nice people on ships.  We had a couple fighting and cursing on our last cruise during our dinner at a Tepanyaki restaurant which took away from the show of the cook and for the others trying to enjoy the meal......the manager tried his hardest to difuse the situation to no avail......I work too hard to go and show my spouse a great time to have that happen or even ruin our trip...….

[Luvcrusn]

49 minutes ago, philpcruiser said:

Thank you, Thank you for your comment.  Unless you know someone with a severe allergy, you'll never understand.

You're welcome.  Sometimes knowing someone with food allergy issues doesn't guarantee caring however. Our dear DIL always comments that she feels safe eating at our house, yet her own relatives always forget! I'm a careful label reader because often things you'd never think of as having nuts are prepared in facilities that process peanuts and tree nuts or are made on shared equipment.as I'm sure you are aware.  She didn't eat her wedding cake because of just that issue. 

[Forecheck]

On 4/27/2019 at 8:45 AM, Bo1953 said:

m -  I really owe you an apology if you thought my comment was directed towards your family members or others who have 'mental illness' and cruises/vacations.

 

When I use the word 'handler' any pronoun can be substitutable in place of that word (i.e. companion, spouse, relative, nurse etc..).

 

I can also assure you that I have knowingly traveled with individuals with such issues AND I assure you that their 'handler(s)' who also traveled with them, one of us were there to help diffuse any situation (when necessary) and calm the individual.

 

When I choose to travel with such individuals I do my best to understand what can or does trigger events for the individual and how to best help them handle it so as not to be disruptive, offensive or be in a situation where they could harm themselves or others verbally or physically.

 

Fortunately, for me, there has been only one (1) instance in all of these years where I had to personally intervene in a friends episode.

 

Additionally, I have declined to travel with individuals who have these issues when I thought that I did not want to help fulfill the role of handler (part time). Just my personal preference on how to enjoy my vacation without worry about what is going on at any given time.

 

I do apologize if you took my post to mean that these individuals (or your family) should not travel, that is not the case, yet if they are traveling and have these issues, clearly someone who can 'handle', help diffuse or otherwise calm the individual down to the point where others will not take offense by their public display of behaviour which can be harmful, is greatly understood, applauded and accepted by fellow passengers, I Am sure or at least my self.

 

I laud, wholeheartedly, those handlers who readily take on the care giving requirements of such individuals, seriously. Great respects.

 

Again, My apologies and it was never my intention to offend you or anyone else with these issues or their caretakers, just pointing out a fact that "I believe" goes a long way to help everyone enjoy their vacation with a minimum of stress.

 

bon voyage

You would be surprised at the amount of people who have mental health issues to varying degrees. Most do not have " Handlers " and if they did it would likely be their spouse . Different things can trigger certain people and with crowds , busy schedules and drinking on a cruise vacation the odds are raised that some may be more prone to an incident.

[fragilek]

The problem with reporting to the crew is they don't do anything- I have this issue on every line I sail (except Marella).  I am celiac and so eat gluten free food- there is even a counter set up for this- So should be easy right.- NO!!!!- I have seen people swap their rolls for the ones on this counter placing gulten bread in with the gluten free stuff (ugh some even used their hands).  Folk walk by and decide they want to add stuff from here onto their plates. So they use the utensils and allow them to touch stuff already on their dish. Asking staff to help explain this is a problem -forget it they do nothing, they seem to reluctant to "pull up guest behavior even although I think in the most part these guests just haven't understood what that area is for and how easy its contaminated. TUI Marella policed their allegy station and wow did it make life easier for the rest of us. In other lines I now choose to eat in the MDR or make do with peel-able fruit for breakfast along with any prepacked gluten free item I can find.

[Bo1953]

2 hours ago, Forecheck said:

You would be surprised at the amount of people who have mental health issues to varying degrees. Most do not have " Handlers " and if they did it would likely be their spouse . Different things can trigger certain people and with crowds , busy schedules and drinking on a cruise vacation the odds are raised that some may be more prone to an incident.

Thank you for your input, yet I believe our conversation mainly focused on those whom we know that have these issues and travel.

 

It is a given that there are others 'unknown' yet we have to deal with them as they arise and unless 'known' they will be treated accordingly even if there are other environmental factors involved, I have to roll with it when encountered.

 

bon voyage

[lysolqn]

Interesting thread!  Cruise ships are mini-cities at sea - the good, the bad and the ugly. Thus, it should come as no surprise that on any given cruise, regardless of the cruise line or the socio-economic status of pax sailing, one is likely to encounter some rude, obnoxious, entitled and/or just plain poorly mannered adults who behave no differently on a vacation at sea than they do at home.  These folks come from all backgrounds and in all sizes and shapes, and are just as likely to be living the good life in the Presidential Suite as in an inside cabin below the water line (😊).  Trying to explain their behavior is futile.  Just think how they behave when they're not away from home, laid-back, relaxed and thoroughly enjoying themselves on vacation!  

[Covepointcruiser]

Eating in any public buffet with a life threatening allergy is a risk most people with severe allergies will not take.   You can use your Epi Pen, however a rush to an equipped emergency room is always required.   

[Stateroom_Sailor]

6 hours ago, lysolqn said:

 These folks come from all backgrounds and in all sizes and shapes, and are just as likely to be living the good life in the Presidential Suite as in an inside cabin below the water line (😊). 

 

Again, I was referring to Carnival loyalist's preference for fun ship entertainment, most seriously loving their brand and needing quite an incentive to leave it ($600 for Hawaii would do it).  When I hear dozens of people complain that they're bored, that the entertainment is stretched out too thin, that too many people go to bed early due to age, and frustration is building over 14 days, we can all come to our own conclusion as to what that means.  Personally, I don't think people paying $1,200+ and sailing for 14 days are getting restless because they're low income.  I'm taking what they're saying at face value.

 

Still, how do you know that income and weight have no correlation to behavior?  Lets just go there, since this keeps getting brought up, no doubt by many that wouldn't be caught dead on a Carnival ship, at a Super 8, or in a budget trailer park.  Remember, correlation does not equal causation...

 

Do low wages cause people to misbehave?

My answer:  No

Why?  The Great Depression and Great Recession did not see a spike in crime.

However:  Difficult personalities can lead to low income, in that it is hard to maintain a JOB!

 

Does weight gain cause people to misbehave?

My answer:  No

Why?  Increases in weight and obesity rates are not causing a spike in crime.

However:  The very lack of impulse control, specifically from those with sociopathy and other personality disorders, can lead to morbid obesity.

 

Flame Away.

[lysolqn]

It appears you have way over-thought my post. I have no interest whatsoever in analyzing cause and effect with respect to why some adults are short-tempered, loud,  rude, accusatory, offensive, obnoxious, racist or use the wrong tongs at the buffet on cruise ships. They just do. Explanations ranging from alcohol, depression, bi-polar disorder, food allergies, obesity and low wages, as entertaining as they may be, are purely speculative and serve no purpose.  Simply put, some adults behave poorly - whether on land or at sea.

Edited May 1, 2019 by lysolqn

[bermadu22]

2 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Again, I was referring to Carnival loyalist's preference for fun ship entertainment, most seriously loving their brand and needing quite an incentive to leave it ($600 for Hawaii would do it).  When I hear dozens of people complain that they're bored, that the entertainment is stretched out too thin, that too many people go to bed early due to age, and frustration is building over 14 days, we can all come to our own conclusion as to what that means.  Personally, I don't think people paying $1,200+ and sailing for 14 days are getting restless because they're low income.  I'm taking what they're saying at face value.

 

Still, how do you know that income and weight have no correlation to behavior?  Lets just go there, since this keeps getting brought up, no doubt by many that wouldn't be caught dead on a Carnival ship, at a Super 8, or in a budget trailer park.  Remember, correlation does not equal causation...

 

Do low wages cause people to misbehave?

My answer:  No

Why?  The Great Depression and Great Recession did not see a spike in crime.

However:  Difficult personalities can lead to low income, in that it is hard to maintain a JOB!

 

Does weight gain cause people to misbehave?

My answer:  No

Why?  Increases in weight and obesity rates are not causing a spike in crime.

However:  The very lack of impulse control, specifically from those with sociopathy and other personality disorders, can lead to morbid obesity.

 

Flame Away.

Courting controversy shows a lack of impulse control as well. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, bermadu22 said:

Courting controversy shows a lack of impulse control as well. 

 

Indeed a possibility.  We cut my sugar intake by 2/3 about 18 months ago, and am now cutting white flower, chips, and fries.  I'm making slow and steady steps rather than dieting.

[fragilek]

On 4/27/2019 at 1:46 AM, ipeeinthepool said:

 

If it wasn't self-serve, do you really think the kitchen has different serving tools for the fish and fries in the kitchen?  Nope

they do if they say they do - I am celiac and I always ask this- I would soon know if they were lying 😲.  Most places have a dedicated chip fryer - they are NOT allowed to put anything else in it - there have been several  cases in the UK for manslaughter which have resulted in much better practices now.  But I am not sure I would take the risk if there was the potential to kill me , for me its a hassle not a death sentence

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/girl-dies-allergy-takeaway-megan-lee-restaurant-royal-spice-lancashire-oswaldtwistle-a8603016.html

Now due to these cases places in eu will say straight away if they do not have dedicated fryers.

[excitedofharpenden]

5 hours ago, lysolqn said:

It appears you have way over-thought my post. I have no interest whatsoever in analyzing cause and effect with respect to why some adults are short-tempered, loud,  rude, accusatory, offensive, obnoxious, racist or use the wrong tongs at the buffet on cruise ships. They just do. Explanations ranging from alcohol, depression, bi-polar disorder, food allergies, obesity and low wages, as entertaining as they may be, are purely speculative and serve no purpose.  Simply put, some adults behave poorly - whether on land or at sea.

I totally agree with you. There are many excuse makers here on Cruise Critic though. Personally I take poor behaviour for what it is. Just bad manners. Plain and simple.  And I get fed up with those trying to be politically correct and take the moral high ground. 

 

Phil 

Edited May 1, 2019 by excitedofharpenden

[ipeeinthepool]

38 minutes ago, fragilek said:

they do if they say they do - I am celiac and I always ask this- I would soon know if they were lying 😲.  Most places have a dedicated chip fryer - they are NOT allowed to put anything else in it - there have been several  cases in the UK for manslaughter which have resulted in much better practices now.  But I am not sure I would take the risk if there was the potential to kill me , for me its a hassle not a death sentence

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/girl-dies-allergy-takeaway-megan-lee-restaurant-royal-spice-lancashire-oswaldtwistle-a8603016.html

Now due to these cases places in eu will say straight away if they do not have dedicated fryers.

 

Perhaps you do not understand my perspective.  Although I expect that the kitchen makes a concerned effort to keep advertised gluten-free or vegetarian items pure, I think it unwise to expect that every item in the kitchen has dedicated tools or fryers.  I think the same fryer that cooks chicken at lunch could be used for fries or fish at dinner.  I think the same serving tool could be used for a cheeseburger or a turkey burger.  My bottom line is that if you happen to be unfortunate enough to suffer from something that has dietary restrictions, you need to stay in control of your own health and not depend on others to assure your safety.  

[lysolqn]

28 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

My bottom line is that if you happen to be unfortunate enough to suffer from something that has dietary restrictions, you need to stay in control of your own health and not depend on others to assure your safety.  

 

Perhaps off topic but...it's quite refreshing to hear from someone who actually accepts  responsibility for him/herself.  What a novel idea. Lots of folks out there ought give it a try. 😊

Edited May 1, 2019 by lysolqn

[K12Guy]

8 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Indeed a possibility.  We cut my sugar intake by 2/3 about 18 months ago, and am now cutting white flower, chips, and fries.  I'm making slow and steady steps rather than dieting.

If the white flower is from the saguaro you won't have difficulty cutting back. Just saying....😇