Crystal Mozart to Exit Crystal Fleet for New Genting Venture

[Texas Tillie]

39 minutes ago, Coral said:

Amamagna is 443' long and 72' width. 196 passengers, 70 crew

Crystal Mozart is 395' long and 75' width. 154 passengers, 92 crew

 

 

That goes a long way in explaining why an AMA boat can't begin to be compared with a Crystal one. Then there's the food and the drinks, etc., etc.

[Coral]

17 minutes ago, kent9xxx1 said:

Each dept still have their own budget, operating expenses, etc...  So the Crystal division should get some money out of this deal.  Maybe concession for future ships.  

Maybe someone else knows more but Crystal went through a huge expansion ----5 river boats, plane, extensive dry docks on their 2 existing ships, purchase of Crystal Espirit and building of Crystal Endeavor all in the last few years. I am guessing this was due to Genting's putting money into the Crystal brand.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Coral

[eroller]

42 minutes ago, Coral said:

Amamagna is 443' long and 72' width. 196 passengers, 70 crew

Crystal Mozart is 395' long and 75' width. 154 passengers, 92 crew

 

 

 

I knew one dimension was larger.  I was thinking I read the width but I guess it's the length.  

 

The cabins on AMAMAGNA are especially impressive.  The smallest is 205 sq ft, larger than the "petite suite" on the 4 Crystal new builds.   The entire boat is designed to appeal to those more used to a large cruise ship, and I think it will. It's a nice transition from cruise ship to river boat.  There is even a heated outdoor pool.      

[Coral]

5 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

That goes a long way in explaining why an AMA boat can't begin to be compared with a Crystal one. Then there's the food and the drinks, etc., etc.

I already miss her! I wonder if Genting knew how much she was loved.

[Coral]

4 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

I knew one dimension was larger.  I was thinking I read the width but I guess it's the length.  

 

The cabins on AMAMAGNA are especially impressive.  The smallest is 205 sq ft, larger than the "petite suite" on the 4 Crystal new builds.   The entire boat is designed to appeal to those more used to a large cruise ship, and I think it will. It's a nice transition from cruise ship to river boat.  There is even a heated outdoor pool.      

On the Mozart - my outside cabin (smallest/cheapest cabin) was 218 square feet.

 

Does Amamagna have Nespresso, iPad and Toto toilet in every cabin? Beat that :)

 

I think you are right - the Mozart probably was the best of the 5 ships.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Coral

[eroller]

14 minutes ago, Coral said:

Maybe someone else knows more but Crystal went through a huge expansion ----5 river boats, plane, extensive dry docks on their 2 existing ships, purchase of Crystal Espirit and building of Crystal Endeavor all in the last few years. I am guessing this was due to Genting's putting money into the Crystal brand.

 

 

It's 100% from Genting putting up the Capital.  Crystal was making no money, and Genting has consistently had losses, but they knew when they purchased Crystal they had to expand the brand.  The initial plans (under formal leader Edie) were even more extensive.  Some might even say far fetched.  It seemed money was no object.  I believe she got the boot and someone more fiscally conservative was brought in from Disney to run Crystal.  Plans were scaled back but they are still ambitious.  

 

In the case of CRYSTAL MOZART I'm guessing Crystal had no choice.  The parent company dictates what will happen, and they wanted MOZART for this new venture.  So bye bye Crystal.  I don't think it had anything to do with performance as I believe the ship was doing quite well and is very popular.  

 

FYI CRYSTAL ESPRIT came from Genting as essentially a private gambling boat.  She has a sister that still operates for Genting in Asia.  I'm guessing that eventually we might see ESPRIT go back to Genting, as Crystal's new expedition ships come online.  ESPRIT is an older vessel, without the amenities (like balconies) that newer luxury ships coming on the market offer.  The new SEADREAM INNOVATION is a prime example.  She will outclass ESPRIT in practically every way.  

Edited May 17, 2019 by eroller

[Host Jazzbeau]

6 minutes ago, Coral said:

Maybe someone else knows more but Crystal went through a huge expansion ----5 river boats, plane, extensive dry docks on their 2 existing ships, purchase of Crystal Espirit and building of Crystal Endeavor all in the last few years. I am guessing this was due to Genting's putting money into the Crystal brand.

 

Yes, and most of those plans have been drastically revised from the initial over-the-top press conference to the final reality.  Crystal Mozart was a good way to jump-start the river cruise division, but I don't recall anything ever being said about it being only a temporary member of the fleet.  The new builds were originally supposed to be 2 of the 135m size for the Rhine and Danube, and 2 of a smaller size [I think 110m] for French rivers – before the smaller boats were built the plans were changed to make all 4 the same and use them all on the Rhine and Danube [but they kept the French composers' names on the boats originally intended for France].  So clearly Crystal is still feeling their way in the river cruise space.

 

[I was typing while eroller posted 🙂]

[eroller]

16 minutes ago, Coral said:

On the Mozart - my outside cabin (smallest/cheapest cabin) was 218 square feet.

 

Does Amamagna have Nespresso, iPad and Toto toilet in every cabin? Beat that 🙂

 

I think you are right - the Mozart probably was the best of the 5 ships.

 

 

Well MOZART doesn't matter much longer, at least as far as Crystal is concerned.  For those seeking a larger river boat experience, AMAMAGNA might be the answer.  I'm not saying it's for everyone, but it's probably the closest river boat in Europe to MOZART based on size and amenities (specialty restaurants, pop up bars, cabin size, pool, gym, spa, etc.).  As I mentioned before more cruise ship style than river boat and that was the intent.  

Edited May 17, 2019 by eroller

[kent9xxx1]

https://skift.com/2017/09/15/crystal-cruises-hires-disney-veteran-in-shakeup-to-replace-outgoing-ceo-edie-rodriguez/

 

Some insight into what eroller & Host Jazzbeau brought up earlier.  

 

The 787-8 dreamliner is currently in storage, waiting to be sold.  It is part of the terrible teen of the Dreamliner family where production was non-standard.  I think they will lose a lot of money on that dreamliner.  

[tfred]

Forgot all about the airplane 

 

the plane, Esprit and to a lesser extent Mozart are one off parts of the fleet. Having a more flexible fleet that can both Rhine and Danube is better for scheduling. Mozart is popular but is limited in geography. Probably a smart move to sell it now or move it to another continent. 

 

We have only only been on Debussy, but other than physical space compared to Mozart, the experience seems to be identical 

[Roland4]

23 hours ago, Coral said:

The odd thing this fall was that the Mozart was the ship that sailed when they had to cancel the other sailings due to low water. The Mozart had the itinerary with the least affected schedules. 

 

Primarily because it sails mostly between Vienna and Passau, the one part of the Danube where the depth is controlled by locks at either end. We were supposed to sail Mozart in the Lower Danube last September, but because there was virtually no water east of Bratislava, it was converted to a Vienna/Passau sailing which included FIVE  of eleven days in Vienna. Fortunately they gave us the option to cancel with a 100% Future Cruise Credit.

[eroller]

40 minutes ago, tfred said:

 Probably a smart move to sell it now or move it to another continent. 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's being sold.  It's a wonderful boat that people seem to love and that Genting spent a lot of $$ on.  In fact almost universally I've read that Crystal passengers that have been on MOZART and the new smaller boats prefer MOZART.  Anyway I think it's just being redeployed to a yet unknown venture within the Genting group.  I'm guessing she will stay cruising the exact same itineraries she is now, but marketed exclusively to Asian passengers, perhaps even under the Dream Cruises banner that Genting also owns.  

 

I agree MOZART had limitations, just as the new AMAMAGNA does, but there seems to be a market for those itineraries.  They are probably the most mainstream itineraries and a likely great pick for those taking their first European river cruise.  In any case I'm sure Ama Waterways is happy about this decision.  

Edited May 18, 2019 by eroller

[Coral]

4 minutes ago, eroller said:

Anyway I think it's just being redeployed to a yet unknown venture within the Genting group.  I'm guessing she will stay cruising the exact same itineraries she is now, but marketed exclusively to Asian passengers, perhaps even under the Dream Cruises banner that Genting also owns.  

Now that I have had time to think on this - I think you are 100% right. 

[Roland4]

10 minutes ago, eroller said:

II'm guessing she will stay cruising the exact same itineraries she is now, but marketed exclusively to Asian passengers, perhaps even under the Dream Cruises banner that Genting also owns.  

 

 

I am sure this will be her ultimate fate, and there is precedent for this. Last Fall on our Tauck cruise we were rafted to a Viking ship that catered exclusively to the Chinese market. All of the visible signage when we passed through her was in Chinese and all of the visible staff were also Chinese. We crossed over to her on the top deck and descended through two decks to exit the ship to the pier and did not see a word of English anywhere.

[eroller]

4 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

I am sure this will be her ultimate fate, and there is precedent for this. Last Fall on our Tauck cruise we were rafted to a Viking ship that catered exclusively to the Chinese market. All of the visible signage when we passed through her was in Chinese and all of the visible staff were also Chinese. We crossed over to her on the top deck and descended through two decks to exit the ship to the pier and did not see a word of English anywhere.

 

 

Interesting.  I had heard that Viking had dedicated a few of their boats to the Chinese market, but didn't know the extent of it.  Of course they have the hardware to spare, with something like 50+ "longships".  Truly the Carnival of European river cruising at least by size.  

[Roland4]

Just now, eroller said:

  Truly the Carnival of European river cruising at least by size.  

 

I have called them that many a time when explaining the difference to clients. My usual line is, "You can walk from Budapest to Amsterdam on Viking ships without getting your feet wet!" Talk to any of the older river Captains and you quickly begin to realize that Viking does not have a good reputation!

[eroller]

1 minute ago, Roland4 said:

 

I have called them that many a time when explaining the difference to clients. My usual line is, "You can walk from Budapest to Amsterdam on Viking ships without getting your feet wet!" Talk to any of the older river Captains and you quickly begin to realize that Viking does not have a good reputation!

 

To give them some credit, they have opened up European river cruising to the masses (just like Carnival to ocean cruises).  They certainly would not be my first choice (just like Carnival LOL).  The Viking ocean ships and operation look wonderful though.  

[eroller]

7 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

I have called them that many a time when explaining the difference to clients. My usual line is, "You can walk from Budapest to Amsterdam on Viking ships without getting your feet wet!" Talk to any of the older river Captains and you quickly begin to realize that Viking does not have a good reputation!

 

 

Do you think they have overcrowded the European rivers?  I've heard of this "rafting" but never experienced it.  I know that 2 or 3 boats can be tied up alongside each other.  Seems so strange to me.  With so many riverboats, I can only think that Viking is largely responsible for this phenomenon.  

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, eroller said:

 

To give them some credit, they have opened up European river cruising to the masses (just like Carnival to ocean cruises).  They certainly would not be my first choice (just like Carnival LOL).  The Viking ocean ships and operation look wonderful though.  

 

1 hour ago, eroller said:

 

 

Do you think they have overcrowded the European rivers?  I've heard of this "rafting" but never experienced it.  I know that 2 or 3 boats can be tied up alongside each other.  Seems so strange to me.  With so many riverboats, I can only think that Viking is largely responsible for this phenomenon.  

 

eroller, the Viking Ocean experience is the same as the river experience, just on an ocean ship. Entertainment is reported as minimal at best, and unlike every other ocean ship, they have no casino. That isn't important to us, but it is to many others.

 

As to "rafting" that has always been part of the river experience simply because there are only so many places to dock, and there have always been more ships than piers. The problem is that Viking has overbuilt their fleet to such a huge extent that it has pretty much become the rule where it used to be the exception. There is nothing more annoying than opening your drapes in the morning to find yourself looking at a ship three feet away from your window. Or even worse, from the balcony you paid for, but can't use.

[eroller]

18 hours ago, Roland4 said:

 

 . The problem is that Viking has overbuilt their fleet to such a huge extent that it has pretty much become the rule where it used to be the exception. There is nothing more annoying than opening your drapes in the morning to find yourself looking at a ship three feet away from your window. Or even worse, from the balcony you paid for, but can't use.

 

 

 

Yes that doesn't sound attractive at all.  I'm a bit put off by the concept of "rafting".  

 

It seems Viking is able to fill all those boats, and are building more so obviously there is a market for them.  Also they are not bargain basement in terms of pricing like Carnival is.  They might be less than Crystal, AMA, or Uniworld, but I still wouldn't call their cruises cheap.  

[Texas Tillie]

26 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

 

Yes that doesn't sound attractive at all.  I'm a bit put off by the concept of "rafting".  

 

 

 

Off the Crystal Bach last Saturday and rafting is a fact of life on the European rivers. It doesn't happen at every stop, but does frequently. We were sometimes the rafter (having to travel through another boat to get to land) and sometimes the raftee (having others traveling through the Bach).

[AllisonJames]

Texas Tillie — how did you like the Bach? We’re on it next summer on our very first river cruise? Your thoughts and insights are appreciated!

[Texas Tillie]

1 minute ago, AllisonJames said:

Texas Tillie — how did you like the Bach? We’re on it next summer on our very first river cruise? Your thoughts and insights are appreciated!

 

Honestly, not a fan. I'd done the Mozart and enjoyed it very much. Very sad to learn that it will be going away from the Crystal fleet. The Bach (and the other 3) are just too small. Everything is so tight, almost claustrophobic to me. The crew was, however, great, one of the best I've ever experienced.

[docmark]

We just got off Mozart 8 days ago, and was able to tour Ravel while parked next to us.  Agree that it felt very TIGHT in public areas...….again very sad to see Mozart go..

[eroller]

34 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Off the Crystal Bach last Saturday and rafting is a fact of life on the European rivers. It doesn't happen at every stop, but does frequently. We were sometimes the rafter (having to travel through another boat to get to land) and sometimes the raftee (having others traveling through the Bach).

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I'm anxious to do a European river cruise but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  This rafting concept kind of makes getting a balcony seem useless.  

 

I wonder if rafting is less common during off-peak season, say April or October when perhaps there are less boats sailing?