Crystal Mozart to Exit Crystal Fleet for New Genting Venture

[Coral]

24 minutes ago, eroller said:

Thanks for the info.  I'm anxious to do a European river cruise but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  This rafting concept kind of makes getting a balcony seem useless.  

 

I wonder if rafting is less common during off-peak season, say April or October when perhaps there are less boats sailing?  

I had a Thanksgiving sailing on Mozart and we often rafted. We were once 3 deep.

 

I rafted in May 2007 in Russia before Viking's longships existed. Rafting is part of life.

 

I actually agree about a balcony. I don't find it necessary. I don't find it that big of a deal - maybe because I haven't known any different. When the ship is in port - I am almost always off the ship the majority of the time so the only inconvenience is when walking through 2 ships to get to yours which isn't that big of a deal.

 

Though I have always been on that even if I have a balcony on ocean ships, during scenic cruising days, I am on deck somewhere as that is where the best views are.

 

The biggest deal is if you have a balcony cabin and you arrive in port early or stay late, make sure your curtains are closed when you are changing clothes, going to sleep, etc...

[Coral]

1 hour ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Honestly, not a fan. I'd done the Mozart and enjoyed it very much. Very sad to learn that it will be going away from the Crystal fleet. The Bach (and the other 3) are just too small. Everything is so tight, almost claustrophobic to me. The crew was, however, great, one of the best I've ever experienced.

Have you been on any other river boat besides Mozart to compare? I am sad to hear your impressions. I think I would probably feel the same way.

 

When I asked Crystal staff which ship they preferred - the answer was overwhelming Mozart due to the spacious feeling and extra public spaces. I thought they answered honestly and that they were not making me feel better that I choose an older ship.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Coral

[Coral]

I don't think this will be an issue as all employees on the ship are Crystal employees - I hope that no one loses their jobs due to this ship leaving the fleet. I hope they will be absorbed onto other Crystal ships. Each employee I met was exceptional on the Mozart.

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, eroller said:

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I'm anxious to do a European river cruise but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  This rafting concept kind of makes getting a balcony seem useless.  

 

I wonder if rafting is less common during off-peak season, say April or October when perhaps there are less boats sailing?  

 

I advise my clients NOT to book a balcony on a river cruise, even though it would be more "lucrative" to me if they did. On the Crystal ships it is academic, since they all have a form of French Balcony ( the top of the window drops down), but on all the others, a French Balcony (sliding door(s) with a railing) is sufficient to allow fresh air into the room. Think of a balcony on an ocean ship. It sticks out from the side of the ship. A river ship has to fit into a lock, so the balcony protrudes INTO the cabin space. Besides, when you are cruising a river, you want to be up on the Sun Deck, where you can see both sides of the river. The simple truth is you use the room to sleep, shower and change your clothes, and not much more.

 

As to rafting, the season starts for all of the lines in April and ends in December, so there is no "off peak" time. We have cruised rivers in May, September and December and both rafted and not rafted. We are going again, on Bach in June, and I expect it will be the same. It is, and always has been, a fact of life on the rivers, so please don't let that deter you from what is a great experience.

[Roland4]

2 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Honestly, not a fan. I'd done the Mozart and enjoyed it very much. Very sad to learn that it will be going away from the Crystal fleet. The Bach (and the other 3) are just too small. Everything is so tight, almost claustrophobic to me. The crew was, however, great, one of the best I've ever experienced.

 

I suspect this is entirely a function of going on Mozart first. The other ships are the same size as a Viking Longship, the maximum size to fit the locks on the Rhine/Moselle/Danube. The difference is Crystal carries 106 guests, where Viking carries 180 - 200. We have been on two Tauck, an AMA and Bach that were all the same size and never felt claustrophobic, but then, our Mozart cruise got cancelled, so maybe we would feel differently if it hadn't been.

[eroller]

21 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

I advise my clients NOT to book a balcony on a river cruise, even though it would be more "lucrative" to me if they did. On the Crystal ships it is academic, since they all have a form of French Balcony ( the top of the window drops down), but on all the others, a French Balcony (sliding door(s) with a railing) is sufficient to allow fresh air into the room. Think of a balcony on an ocean ship. It sticks out from the side of the ship. A river ship has to fit into a lock, so the balcony protrudes INTO the cabin space. Besides, when you are cruising a river, you want to be up on the Sun Deck, where you can see both sides of the river. The simple truth is you use the room to sleep, shower and change your clothes, and not much more.

 

As to rafting, the season starts for all of the lines in April and ends in December, so there is no "off peak" time. We have cruised rivers in May, September and December and both rafted and not rafted. We are going again, on Bach in June, and I expect it will be the same. It is, and always has been, a fact of life on the rivers, so please don't let that deter you from what is a great experience.

 

 

 

Good information.  Honestly I don't think I would need a balcony on a river cruise ... but I don't like those cabins that are halfway below the water line with that small window at the top of the cabin.  Kind of like a basement.  I know the Crystal ships don't have this, but many riverboats do.  I do love the idea of the French Balcony and the window dropping down.  Interestingly enough this is what CELEBRITY EDGE has.  They basically got the idea from European river boats.  

 

As for rafting, I suppose it's just part of river cruising and not something you can really escape.  

[Coral]

6 minutes ago, eroller said:

Good information.  Honestly I don't think I would need a balcony on a river cruise ... but I don't like those cabins that are halfway below the water line with that small window at the top of the cabin.  Kind of like a basement.  

Just refer to it as "the aquarium class"...... :) It does add a new dimension to having the ship rock you to sleep when you can hear the water slapping against the window as you sleep. Hopefully you will be too tired to care.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Coral

[Keith1010]

Just catching up on all of this.

Mozart will remain under Genting and will serve the Asian Market.  It's a large and growing market.  Certainly some minor changes can be made to further  accommodate this market.

 

As some have said I have thoroughly enjoyed our experience on Mozart.

In physical size it reminds us of having sailed on the Seabourn Pride (200 passenger ship).  

 

It is an easier transition to make IMHO going from an Ocean Vessel to a River Cruise vessel.  I am sitting  here in Palm Court as I write this and very much reminds me of when we sat at the lounge on Seabourn.  If I hadn't been on Mozart I wouldn't know any better in going directly with one of the other River Cruise vessels other than it would be more of an adjustment from Ocean Cruising.  I am reminded that when we pulled up to the Seabourn Pride for the very first time Anne Marie said it looks like a tender and the first 24 hours on Pride it did feel small.  That experience better prepared us for this experience.

 

Having tours Ravel on day two when we were in Vienna things I prefer about Mozart is its width.the larger fitness center, the location of the vintage room, the extra restaurant with respect to Blue and the wrap around promenade deck.

 

I didn't look at guest rooms.  However,  we are looking at another River cruise.  We like the size of the PH on Mozart, but that is not offered on the other vessels.  We are concerned for us that the suite will be too small and the CP too large and too pricey for our need.  So, for us the PH is the perfect size.

 

With that said we will still book with one of the other Crystal River vessels once we figure out a time frame which will work.  

 

Our experience on Mozart has been one of our best experiences ever for a single sailing.  

 

The crew will be fine.  Some already have worked on one or more of the other Crystal River Cruise vessels.   Lots  of opportunities with Crystal.

 

Anyway, it was a shock to learn about this and ironic we were on-board when it was announced.   

 

Larry  is right about the season when it comes to peak and non peak.  When it begins (we were told March) the vessels are all there and continue until December.  What is different is the volume of tourists who are in the cities doing land vacations.  This increases in the summer.  

 

The  Captain  of Mozart joined Mozart in 2002 and has been Captain since 2009.  He says there is a major difference today sailing the Danube.  Back in the day  you saw very little vessels according to him.   So no rafting.  It was funny on  our first day in Budapest.  We haven't rafted much up to that point.  When we went from our vessel to the one next to us I thought I was at a cruise ship port.  Their lobby was full of merchandise on sale and for the moment I thought it was in a terminal where they  sell merchandise.

 

Keith

[TravelerThom]

On 5/16/2019 at 10:52 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

...If they want to move her to Asia, my guess is that there would have to be an overland portage (to e.g. Hamburg or Amsterdam) and then transport on an ocean freighter.

Practically anything is possible given infinite resources, but moving a 3100 ton 23 meter wide vessel overland through urbanized Germany (probably from Passau to Cologne, where it could then sail to Rotterdam) would require wreaking an incredible amount of infrastructure. I have seen Airbus 380 fuselage sections (less than 7 meters wide) being moved through public surface areas in route to Toulouse and that is a major undertaking. Not that I think Mozart is leaving the Danube, but if it was it seems a lot easier to sail it down the Danube to Odessa or Constanta to catch a freighter. 

 

 

[Texas Tillie]

According to Keith who is on board the Mozart now, it will begin serving the Asian market. I assume that means continuing to sail the Danube but marketed to Asians.

[Stickman1990]

Strange that they don’t continue to use the Crystal brand though - I thought that’s one of the reasons they bought Crystal to provide a global umbrella for luxury travel 

 

That begs the question in my mind if it is going to be changed in a way to accomodate a larger number of guests - or cater for Asian tastes - I can’t imagine them being to add a casino to it though

[Texas Tillie]

15 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

Strange that they don’t continue to use the Crystal brand though - I thought that’s one of the reasons they bought Crystal to provide a global umbrella for luxury travel 

 

That begs the question in my mind if it is going to be changed in a way to accomodate a larger number of guests - or cater for Asian tastes - I can’t imagine them being to add a casino to it though

 

I think it would be too confusing to continue to market under the Crystal name if it's not operated in the Crystal manner - English language and predominately western food. Genting has the Dream brand that, to my understanding, is an upscale Asian brand. Probably no casino based on local laws.

 

Patty

[acwmom]

We had been looking at Crystal for our next river cruise, and going back and forth between the Mozart and smaller ships. The Mozart was intriguing because of its larger footprint and additional dining options. Now, we don't have to choose, except for itinerary.

 

With regard to rafting, we usually choose the first or second sailing of the season. No rafting on our Paris-Normandy route, and only rafted once (briefly) on our Rhine cruise.

 

Robin

 

 

[Coral]

I selected the Mozart on a mailing of discounted cruises. I zeroed in because it was a 10 night, happened over Thanksgiving (less vacation days) and fell love with the itinerary because it was all new to me. The shore excursions also intrigued me as I could get to Munich and Salzburg which many lines don't do and spent quite a bit of time in Vienna. I also thought it would be ok as many of my friends river boat trips had turned into bus trips.

 

I knew the exterior looked older as it was an older ship but the inside looked amazing in the pictures. I did find myself explaining to my friends who had done river cruises on how all the new ships were so sleek and they were surprised "I" was going on this older ship.

 

I did not regret it one bit. The ports impressed me and the ship was beyond what I expected. One of my favorite trips.

 

When I first read the news - I thought maybe she wasn't popular because the ship is an older ship and wondered if that turned off some passengers looking at exterior photos. I now know that is not the case.

[Psoque]

7 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Strange that they don’t continue to use the Crystal brand though - I thought that’s one of the reasons they bought Crystal to provide a global umbrella for luxury travel 

 

That begs the question in my mind if it is going to be changed in a way to accomodate a larger number of guests - or cater for Asian tastes - I can’t imagine them being to add a casino to it though

I am also wondering the same thing about a casino.  I'm not an expert on the socio-economics of mainland Chinese and Chinese diaspora, but my rough understanding is that a big piece of profits from cruises geared toward the Chinese (both from China and elsewhere) are derived from the gambling activity onboard, and that's how Genting has made its fortune.  So, I would think they would definitely want to add a casino to Mozart if they want to cater it to that population.  However, I have no idea what are the legal/taxation status of river vessels on the Danube.

[eroller]

4 minutes ago, Psoque said:

 So, I would think they would definitely want to add a casino to Mozart if they want to cater it to that population.  However, I have no idea what are the legal/taxation status of river vessels on the Danube.

 

 

I think if legally then can, they absolutely will.   It's very important to the Chinese especially.  

 

Even the new Crystal expedition ships will have a casino, which is very unusual for this type of vessel.  It's obviously meant for the Chinese/Asian guests that Genting will be promoting the ship to.  

[CaribbeanIsland]

We have rafted since 2005 in Europe. Not all ports but it happens on every cruise. We have gotten used to it. I wouldn't not go on a trip because of it.

[Roland4]

5 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

I think if legally then can, they absolutely will.   It's very important to the Chinese especially.  

 

Even the new Crystal expedition ships will have a casino, which is very unusual for this type of vessel.  It's obviously meant for the Chinese/Asian guests that Genting will be promoting the ship to.  

 

I would be very surprised if it would be legal, for the same reasons that ocean ships can't open the casino while in port. And as I pointed out in an earlier post, Viking has a number of ships that cater to the Chinese market, and none of them have a casino.

[ctjon]

Too bad. We are thinking of trying river next year and based upon Keith’s reviews and blog Mozart was going to be first choice but I’m sure other Crystal ships will be fine

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, ctjon said:

Too bad. We are thinking of trying river next year and based upon Keith’s reviews and blog Mozart was going to be first choice but I’m sure other Crystal ships will be fine

 

You could also try AMA's brand new AmaMagna, which is approx. the same size as Mozart.  I know it isn't Crystal, but our one Crystal Serenity cruise did not 'crystalize' us and we think AMA is very good.

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

You could also try AMA's brand new AmaMagna, which is approx. the same size as Mozart.  I know it isn't Crystal, but our one Crystal Serenity cruise did not 'crystalize' us and we think AMA is very good.

 

Comparing the ocean to the river, and comparing AMA to Crystal in the river segment is like comparing apples to watermelons! Leaving aside the obvious differences in inclusiveness, the average AMA ship carries 180 - 200 guests, while the remaining four Crystal ships carry 106 guests. Having experienced AMA and Uniworld (as well as Tauck), that makes a very real difference on a river cruise. We have enjoyed all of them, but there is a very significant difference between Crystal/Tauck and AMA/Uniworld.

[Host Jazzbeau]

57 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

Comparing the ocean to the river, and comparing AMA to Crystal in the river segment is like comparing apples to watermelons! Leaving aside the obvious differences in inclusiveness, the average AMA ship carries 180 - 200 guests, while the remaining four Crystal ships carry 106 guests. Having experienced AMA and Uniworld (as well as Tauck), that makes a very real difference on a river cruise. We have enjoyed all of them, but there is a very significant difference between Crystal/Tauck and AMA/Uniworld.

 

Are you confusing AMA and Viking?  AMA's 135m ships carry only 156 guests.  AmaMagna, which is twice as big (wide), carries 196 guests.  Crystal Mozart had 156 on that same wide size – but it's gone.  So the choice now is the narrow Crystal ships, with very limited itineraries – or the only wide ship on the rivers: AmaMagna.  I was replying to ctjon, who had his heart set on the wide ship.  [Sorry if I violated the 'nothing compares to Crystal' protocol that dominates their forum, but the real apples to watermelons comparison is your '180-200' to '106'.]

[Texas Tillie]

7 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Are you confusing AMA and Viking?  AMA's 135m ships carry only 156 guests.  AmaMagna, which is twice as big (wide), carries 196 guests.  Crystal Mozart had 156 on that same wide size – but it's gone.  So the choice now is the narrow Crystal ships, with very limited itineraries – or the only wide ship on the rivers: AmaMagna.  I was replying to ctjon, who had his heart set on the wide ship.  [Sorry if I violated the 'nothing compares to Crystal' protocol that dominates their forum, but the real apples to watermelons comparison is your '180-200' to '106'.]

 

Perhaps you could say that Larry went a little "overboard" saying that comparing AMA with Crystal is like comparing apples with watermelons (however, they both are fruits), but until AMA is as inclusive as Crystal and offers the same quality in the dining room, it is, at least, comparing apples to oranges. I have a friend who sailed AMA and told me that it is "nice", but can not compare in any way to Crystal. That's OK, the daily rate is less. You get what you pay for.

[gnome12]

11 hours ago, Roland4 said:

 

Comparing the ocean to the river, and comparing AMA to Crystal in the river segment is like comparing apples to watermelons! Leaving aside the obvious differences in inclusiveness, the average AMA ship carries 180 - 200 guests, while the remaining four Crystal ships carry 106 guests. Having experienced AMA and Uniworld (as well as Tauck), that makes a very real difference on a river cruise. We have enjoyed all of them, but there is a very significant difference between Crystal/Tauck and AMA/Uniworld.

The 6 AMA European ships (excluding the Douro) carry 144 (3 of them), 156, 161 and 162 guests.

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, gnome12 said:

The 6 AMA European ships (excluding the Douro) carry 144 (3 of them), 156, 161 and 162 guests.

 

AMA has 19 European ships (excluding the Douro).  Crystal now has only 4.  So while the Crystal experience may be more luxurious than AMA, the choice of itineraries is extremely limited.  And AMA now has the only double-wide boat.  AMA's greater choice was the point of my original post.  As somebody often says on the Crystal forum, "Choice is good."