Crystal Mozart to Exit Crystal Fleet for New Genting Venture

[ctjon]

Wow didn’t mean to cause controversy. 

[Texas Tillie]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

 As somebody often says on the Crystal forum, "Choice is good." 

 

As long as you are aware that if you choose AMA you will not be getting a Crystal experience.

[Texas Tillie]

42 minutes ago, ctjon said:

Wow didn’t mean to cause controversy. 

 

No problem!😱🤡😛🤓

[kent9xxx1]

16 hours ago, Roland4 said:

 

Having experienced AMA and Uniworld (as well as Tauck), that makes a very real difference on a river cruise. We have enjoyed all of them, but there is a very significant difference between Crystal/Tauck and AMA/Uniworld.

 

Serious question, is Uniworld really significantly worse than Crystal river?  

[TravelerThom]

1 hour ago, Texas Tillie said:

As long as you are aware that if you choose AMA you will not be getting a Crystal experience.

Yet you have stated that you are not a fan of the remaining Crystal river boats. 

On 5/18/2019 at 7:01 PM, Texas Tillie said:

...The Bach (and the other 3) are just too small. Everything is so tight, almost claustrophobic to me...

I assume you will no longer be river cruising. 

[Texas Tillie]

54 minutes ago, TravelerThom said:

Yet you have stated that you are not a fan of the remaining Crystal river boats. 

I assume you will no longer be river cruising. 

 

You are correct. I don't see why that should not allow me to voice my opinion that AMA is not the same level as Crystal. I'd think that most would realize that just looking at what is/is not included on their river boats. Yes, AMA has a river boat that is the size of the Crystal Mozart. No, that boat will not provide the same experience you would have had on the Crystal Mozart.

[Got2Cruise]

15 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

You are correct. I don't see why that should not allow me to voice my opinion that AMA is not the same level as Crystal. I'd think that most would realize that just looking at what is/is not included on their river boats. Yes, AMA has a river boat that is the size of the Crystal Mozart. No, that boat will not provide the same experience you would have had on the Crystal Mozart.

So it is up to the consumer to decide which is more important — the wider size or the level of service. 

[Coral]

2 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

You are correct. I don't see why that should not allow me to voice my opinion that AMA is not the same level as Crystal. I'd think that most would realize that just looking at what is/is not included on their river boats. Yes, AMA has a river boat that is the size of the Crystal Mozart. No, that boat will not provide the same experience you would have had on the Crystal Mozart.

I completely agree with you. I loved the Mozart. I am guessing if I sailed the AMA Magna, it won't feel the same as the Mozart. The quality of food, service and having everything included will not be there. 

 

I am guessing Mozart will be my favorite but if I was to sail again in Europe, I would probably go Crystal or Tauck. I can not expect the AMA Magna to give me the same experience, even though she is the same size.

 

I am hesitant to go with AMA again. Corporate had a chance to keep me as a customer but instead, blew me off. Their loss. All indications my demographics would put me in AMAs ship.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Coral

[Roland4]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

AMA has 19 European ships (excluding the Douro).  Crystal now has only 4.  So while the Crystal experience may be more luxurious than AMA, the choice of itineraries is extremely limited.  And AMA now has the only double-wide boat.  AMA's greater choice was the point of my original post.  As somebody often says on the Crystal forum, "Choice is good." 

 

Okay, just so I understand what you are saying, Crystal's four ships, which can sail the entire Rhine/Main/Danube system somehow offer fewer choices than the AMAMagna, which is restricted by its size to the Danube, and even then, mostly to the Danube between Budapest and Passau?? The fact that it may be a double-wide (are we talking trailer parks now??) is, to me, somewhat immaterial. It is the experience of cruising the river that is most important.

 

While it is true that AMA has more ships (all equally as narrow as the Crystal ships), it mostly means more ships doing the same itineraries over and over again. While it may mean a greater number of available dates, it does not necessarily mean a greater choice of itineraries. They all tend to stop at the same places. Where the likes of AMA/Viking/Uniworld have a distinct advantage over Crystal is in the sheer number of ships, which allows them greater flexibility to deal with too much/too little water in the rivers, as was proven last summer/fall.

 

As to passenger numbers, while I was working from memory, whether it is 160 or 150, it still does not compare to +/- 106 on Crystal or Tauck, and in our experience on AMA, Uniworld, Tauck and Crystal, the fewer the guests, the better the service. I am not putting AMA down, as we very much enjoyed our cruise on AMACerto, but it is not in quite the same league as Crystal

Edited June 13, 2019 by Roland4

[Roland4]

7 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

 

Serious question, is Uniworld really significantly worse than Crystal river?  

 

Not at all, and we sailed on Uniworld's oldest and smallest ship, in the smallest cabin. Like Crystal, Uniworld is pretty much all inclusive, so the only real difference is in the number of passengers onboard. And on Uniworld you kind of really need to like French Provincial because that is how they decorate most of their ships!!

 

At the end of the day, every line will give you a very good experience, and they all go to pretty much the same places.

[Host Jazzbeau]

56 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

Okay, just so I understand what you are saying, Crystal's four ships, which can sail the entire Rhine/Main/Danube system somehow offer fewer choices than the AMAMagna, which is restricted by its size to the Danube, and even then, mostly to the Danube between Budapest and Passau?? The fact that it may be a double-wide (are we talking trailer parks now??) is, to me, somewhat immaterial. It is the experience of cruising the river that is most important.

 

I am truly stunned by your ability to twist words out of context.  You are conflating two different parts of my post, so let me spell it out as clearly as I can:

•  Crystal has 4 ships that offer 4 itineraries on the Rhine/Main/Danube system (with the Moselle added on one)

•  AMA has 22 ships that cover all the rivers and ports on Crystal's itineraries plus they go all the way down the Rhine to Giurgiu, Romania; in addition they have itineraries on the Rhône, the Seine, the Gironde (Bordeaux), the Dutch/Belgian canals, the Douro, the Mekong, and (using full-ship charters) the Chobe River in Africa.

•  In addition, AMA also has the only double-wide ship (now that Crystal is losing Mozart)

 

Now do you understand why I say that AMA offers more choice?  Crystal may offer a more luxurious experience [although my cruise on Crystal Serenity did not live up to the hype on their CC forum], but it does not offer much in the way of choice as regards itinerary.  

And [notice we are transitioning to the other point now?] for the person who only wanted a double-wide ship, Crystal offers no choice at all but AMA does.

[TravelerThom]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I am truly stunned by your ability to twist words out of context....

It is my impression that Crystal cheerleaders, even more than most, live in a world of “alternative facts” where words mean whatever they choose them to mean. Sadly I am no longer surprised or shocked by this behavior. 

[Roland4]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

I am truly stunned by your ability to twist words out of context.  You are conflating two different parts of my post, so let me spell it out as clearly as I can:

•  Crystal has 4 ships that offer 4 itineraries on the Rhine/Main/Danube system (with the Moselle added on one)

•  AMA has 22 ships that cover all the rivers and ports on Crystal's itineraries plus they go all the way down the Rhine to Giurgiu, Romania; in addition they have itineraries on the Rhône, the Seine, the Gironde (Bordeaux), the Dutch/Belgian canals, the Douro, the Mekong, and (using full-ship charters) the Chobe River in Africa.

•  In addition, AMA also has the only double-wide ship (now that Crystal is losing Mozart)

 

Now do you understand why I say that AMA offers more choice?  Crystal may offer a more luxurious experience [although my cruise on Crystal Serenity did not live up to the hype on their CC forum], but it does not offer much in the way of choice as regards itinerary.  

And [notice we are transitioning to the other point now?] for the person who only wanted a double-wide ship, Crystal offers no choice at all but AMA does.

 

Not sure where the confusion lies. Here is your original statement;

 

"So the choice now is the narrow Crystal ships, with very limited itineraries – or the only wide ship on the rivers: AmaMagna."

 

I agree AMA has ships all over the world, but we are talking about the Danube and Magna, not about the rest of the world beyond the Rhine/Main/Danube. In the context of the Rhine/Main/Danube market, AMA offers more sailing dates, but as I have said before, all of the lines go to all of the same places at some point in the season.. Since Crystal does not sail in those other markets, it would be pointless to compare them to AMA. More to the point, I have referred a number of times to the difference being in the onboard experience as it relates to the number of guests onboard. We have sailed on all of the lines I have mentioned, and my observations are based on our experiences, all of them favourable, on those lines.

 

While I am sorry your Serenity experience did not live up to your expectations, I am not sure what the point of your continued references to it have to do with this discussion, or river cruising in general.

[Psoque]

6 hours ago, TravelerThom said:

It is my impression that Crystal cheerleaders, even more than most, live in a world of “alternative facts” where words mean whatever they choose them to mean. Sadly I am no longer surprised or shocked by this behavior. 

On 6/12/2019 at 1:45 PM, Texas Tillie said:

As long as you are aware that if you choose AMA you will not be getting a Crystal experience.

Yet you have stated that you are not a fan of the remaining Crystal river boats. 

On 5/18/2019 at 7:01 PM, Texas Tillie said:

...The Bach (and the other 3) are just too small. Everything is so tight, almost claustrophobic to me...

I assume you will no longer be river cruising. 

 

 

I'm not sure if I am one of the so called "Crystal cheerleaders," but based on my (perhaps very limited compared to those who cruise a lot more than we do) experience on Crystal Mozart as well as our brief walk-throughs on standard-width river vessels (both Crystal and non-Crystal...just happened to be an AMA vessel recently), here's my current OPINION about this topic:

 

I really liked the set-up on Crystal Mozart.  I especially liked the fact that the stairways were not spiral.  Though they look nice, I don't really like walking up/down in a spiral.  Also, I really enjoyed the roomy public spaces on Mozart.  And I also have to mention that we enjoy the good service on Crystal vessels, and I thought the service was even better on Mozart compared to Symphony and Serenity, the two ocean vessels.  That was the case with our cruise on Esprit as well.  I thought the service on Mozart and Esprit was just a more enhanced version of the good service we have received on Symphony/Serenity.

 

Obviously, I have not done a full cruise on either the non-Mozart Crystal vessels or AMA vessels, but I am sad to hear that Mozart is leaving Crystal.  I wish we could have done more cruises on Mozart.

 

Given that:

 

Would I still consider taking a river cruise with Crystal?  Yes.  I liked Mozart, but that does not mean I totally hate the other Crystal river vessels.

 

Would I consider taking a river cruise with another company?  Probably, especially if we want to do an itinerary that Crystal do not offer.

 

Would I seriously consider AMA simply because it offers a double-wide ship?    No, IF other things are not right for us, we would not choose AMA, even AMA Magna.

 

For me (and I'm sure it is the case for many others), we choose a cruise based on more than one factor (in this case, the width of the river vessel).  I have limited vacation time, and I'm not swimming in money, so I have to choose my cruises very carefully.    We look at the level of service, cost, time of the year, in addition to the ship size/itinerary.

 

We all have our own reasons to choose our cruises, and it is rather presumptuous to say that someone is making sense or not.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Psoque
typoe and elaboration

[Texas Tillie]

35 minutes ago, Psoque said:

Yet you have stated that you are not a fan of the remaining Crystal river boats. 

I assume you will no longer be river cruising. 

 

 

That is correct as I stated above. I liked the Mozart and would have considered going again. Had been looking at a 2021 cruise that went down to Serbia. Alas, was not to be. After 17 days on the Bach I was happy to get off as it was just too confining. The food was not as good as on the Mozart, but that could have been the specific chef on the Bach when I was there. The crew was very Crystal.

 

I sent for information on Uniworld and was appalled with the decoration on their boats. No thank you. Just don't think there is any place I could get a Crystal like experience on the European rivers and don't see wasting my money (even if less than what it would cost for Crystal) on an experience that would not satisfy.

 

[Roland4]

34 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

I sent for information on Uniworld and was appalled with the decoration on their boats. No thank you. Just don't think there is any place I could get a Crystal like experience on the European rivers and don't see wasting my money (even if less than what it would cost for Crystal) on an experience that would not satisfy.

 

 

Yes, you do have to be a fan of French Provincial if you are going to sail Uniworld!!! We sailed them pre-FP, on the smallest and oldest ship in the fleet, and quite enjoyed the experience.

[acwmom]

44 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

Yes, you do have to be a fan of French Provincial if you are going to sail Uniworld!!! We sailed them pre-FP, on the smallest and oldest ship in the fleet, and quite enjoyed the experience.

Please, if you are going to describe the decor, refer to it as the "brothel" look, as my DH does  That being said, our first Paris Normandy cruise on Uniworld was on the Baroness (now the "B") and it was TINY. 128sf rooms.....never again. Since then, we have been on two SS ships.....totally different experience, with regard to size of cabin, size of ship, and ship features. The decor is toning down quite a bit, as well. The newly renovated SS. Beatrice and SS Bon Voyage are much less brothel than their prior version. We loved the SS Joie de Vivre last year.

 

We have enjoyed our four Uniworld cruises, and find the level of service and attention to be perfect for us. We are interested in trying Crystal, and Ama (but not the Magna). We sailed Avalon once, and it didn't come close to Uniworld. I would never decorate my home in "brothel" style, but for a week, it's kind of fun for us.

 

Robin

[Host Jazzbeau]

20 minutes ago, acwmom said:

Please, if you are going to describe the decor, refer to it as the "brothel" look, as my DH does

 

I loved the description that it "looks like Marie Antoinette exploded in the bedroom" 

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, acwmom said:

Please, if you are going to describe the decor, refer to it as the "brothel" look, as my DH does  That being said, our first Paris Normandy cruise on Uniworld was on the Baroness (now the "B") and it was TINY. 128sf rooms.....never again. Since then, we have been on two SS ships.....totally different experience, with regard to size of cabin, size of ship, and ship features. The decor is toning down quite a bit, as well. The newly renovated SS. Beatrice and SS Bon Voyage are much less brothel than their prior version. We loved the SS Joie de Vivre last year.

 

We have enjoyed our four Uniworld cruises, and find the level of service and attention to be perfect for us. We are interested in trying Crystal, and Ama (but not the Magna). We sailed Avalon once, and it didn't come close to Uniworld. I would never decorate my home in "brothel" style, but for a week, it's kind of fun for us.

 

Robin

 

As a TA I have to be a little more "circumspect" than to describe it as the "brothel" look, but as a passenger, I have to say I love the phrase!! 😁 And it is so apt!! Our one and only Uniworld in 2009 was the Seine on the Baroness, but we were in one of the 100 SF rooms on Deck 1. The morning we opened the drapes and found a duck sitting on the window ledge I christened it "Duck Class" and these many years later, every single one of my colleagues at the office call it the same thing when describing Deck 1 cabins on any of the lines to clients!!😄

Edited June 13, 2019 by Roland4

[Coral]

I am probably considered a Crystal cheerleader here. I have never had such a superior experience as I did on the Mozart.

 

The one trend I do see on this thread (and this board) is how much this ship is loved amongst those who have sailed on her. I have not read a negative comment about the Mozart whatsoever.  You don't get that often on a 1987 ship that was renovated. Many times remodeling just doesn't work. Kudos to Genting and Crystal for making her sparkle. Kudos to the staff for taking river cruising to the next level!

 

I will definitely miss her but consider myself lucky to have had a chance to sail on her. And this all happened because a hurricane cancelled an earlier vacation. I will be forever thankful to Hurricane Florence.

[YWW]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 5:21 PM, Stickman1990 said:

It seems her job is done - at least for Crystal - she is to be moved to a new, yet to be announced, venture by Genting. This will leave Crystal with the four smaller river ships 

 

Mozart's last sailing for Crystal

Mozart’s last Crystal voyage available to the public will embark Dec. 2, 2019, from Vienna to Budapest.

Passengers booked for 2020 sailings will be accommodated on similar Danube itineraries offered by Crystal Mahler or Crystal Ravel.

'Crystal Mozart set the stage for Crystal River Cruises’ debut as its inaugural ship in the summer of 2016, and we are pleased to see her carrying onward with Genting Cruise Lines,' Wolber said.

 

http://www.seatrade-*****/news/news-headlines/mozart-to-exit-crystal-fleet-for-new-genting-venture.html

 

We just came back from the Crystal Mozart river Danube cruise round trip Vienna 3 weeks ago. Your information about the Mozart exiting the Crystal fleet is not entirely correct based on the information that was given to us by several senior staffs. The Mozart is not exiting the Crystal fleet but being revised effective sometime in 2020 to accommodate cruisers from primarily mainland China to meet the surging demands of the well-to-do and adventurous mainland Chinese. This is a good move for Crystal especially when Viking has already converted two of their long boats to strictly mainland China bookings. The Mozart changeover will involve replacing the bulk of the staff with Mandarin speaking mainland Chinese staff especially the kitchen and dining room since the menus will be changed to Chinese serving primarily Chinese cuisines. All the signage on the ship will also change to Chinese. All the staff on the Mozart are aware of this change and they will be notified when and where they'll transfer to at a later date. Based on available information, Mozart will still sail essentially the same itinerary on the Danube since it's simply too wide (twice the width of the standard long ships) to sail on other European rivers due to lock width and length limitations. If Mozart copies Viking's Chinese "conversion", it'll mean the bookings will only be handled by an approved travel agency in mainland China.

 

The Mozart staff wasn't surprised with this move because Mozart is a very old ship and there have been complaints from cruisers about the various aspect of the ship particularly the smallish cabins, tight closets, tiny bathrooms, too high tech toilets, sliding patio door balcony instead of the much wider drop-down French balcony, ... They said they have never had a sold out voyage. Our voyage had 105 passengers with a number of vacant cabins (Mozart was designed to have about 145 passengers). We met about 5 couples who booked just 2 months before departure.

 

A few other changes are coming to the Crystal river cruising. They are dropping the Eastern European voyage effective next year and revising others. There may be one or more new long ships added in the future since their current 4 long ships offer extremely limited itineraries.

 

[ctjon]

On our recent Symphony cruise we talked to one of the excursion staff as directed to him since he came from river cruises  - specifically Mozart.  He mentioned how sad he was that she was leaving the Crystal fleet.  

I guess it is a definition issue but if not listed in the Crystal literature and the staff being told it isn't a Crystal ship anymore - sure it may have the same owners but it really isn't a Crystal ship anymore as far as past crew is concerned.

 

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, ctjon said:

On our recent Symphony cruise we talked to one of the excursion staff as directed to him since he came from river cruises  - specifically Mozart.  He mentioned how sad he was that she was leaving the Crystal fleet.  

I guess it is a definition issue but if not listed in the Crystal literature and the staff being told it isn't a Crystal ship anymore - sure it may have the same owners but it really isn't a Crystal ship anymore as far as past crew is concerned.

 

 

We were told by a staff member here on Bach today that Mozart will leave the fleet in March and will be re-flagged as another Genting product. My guess would be under Genting's Dream Cruises brand. Interesting that there have been complaints, and that she has never sold out. Have not seen any indication of either up to now. This is our second sailing on Bach and we quite enjoy it. 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Roland4

[Psoque]

2 hours ago, YWW said:

 

We just came back from the Crystal Mozart river Danube cruise round trip Vienna 3 weeks ago. Your information about the Mozart exiting the Crystal fleet is not entirely correct based on the information that was given to us by several senior staffs. The Mozart is not exiting the Crystal fleet but being revised effective sometime in 2020 to accommodate cruisers from primarily mainland China to meet the surging demands of the well-to-do and adventurous mainland Chinese. This is a good move for Crystal especially when Viking has already converted two of their long boats to strictly mainland China bookings. The Mozart changeover will involve replacing the bulk of the staff with Mandarin speaking mainland Chinese staff especially the kitchen and dining room since the menus will be changed to Chinese serving primarily Chinese cuisines. All the signage on the ship will also change to Chinese. All the staff on the Mozart are aware of this change and they will be notified when and where they'll transfer to at a later date. Based on available information, Mozart will still sail essentially the same itinerary on the Danube since it's simply too wide (twice the width of the standard long ships) to sail on other European rivers due to lock width and length limitations. If Mozart copies Viking's Chinese "conversion", it'll mean the bookings will only be handled by an approved travel agency in mainland China.

 

The Mozart staff wasn't surprised with this move because Mozart is a very old ship and there have been complaints from cruisers about the various aspect of the ship particularly the smallish cabins, tight closets, tiny bathrooms, too high tech toilets, sliding patio door balcony instead of the much wider drop-down French balcony, ... They said they have never had a sold out voyage. Our voyage had 105 passengers with a number of vacant cabins (Mozart was designed to have about 145 passengers). We met about 5 couples who booked just 2 months before departure.

 

A few other changes are coming to the Crystal river cruising. They are dropping the Eastern European voyage effective next year and revising others. There may be one or more new long ships added in the future since their current 4 long ships offer extremely limited itineraries.

 

Maybe I am totally clueless, but my understandings were:

1.  Crystal Mozart will be re-branded under another brand owned by Genting HK.  Or was I reading one of those "fake news?"

2.  I thought, most of the cabins on Mozart are at least slightly larger than that on the other Crystal river vessels, as well as most of European river vessels in general.

3.  I thought the Toto toilets are also installed on the other Crystal river vessels.

 

 

[Coral]

Having sailed the Mozart last year, I never heard one complaint about the ship. Actually everyone raved about it. Same with reports on this board.

 

My outside cabin was quite large IMO, my bathroom was large and I actually liked the high tech toilet. It was a topic of conversation but no one complained about it.

 

Crystal is a new kid to the river cruising game. I an not surprised that they are not always sold out because at times, their pricing is pretty high. Though there are some unbelievable deals. When I mentioned I was doing a river cruise on Crystal - most of my friends did not know they were even in that market. Last year, like all the other lines, had sailings that had to be cancelled and also had passengers cancel due to low river levels.