Azamara rebrands and Ventures Beyond the Sea

[Lottie A]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

It seems to me that the prices for these packages are extremely high and likely to appeal to those with very deep pockets and either no time or no inclination to do any leg work.  Wouldn't these same people be those who would want to cruise on a luxury line rather than Azamara ?

Yes I rather think they would Pam. Anyone willing to spend that amount of money would not be happy with Azamara cabins. Even the bigger suites are in no way comparable with Silversea or Crystal suites. 

 

It certainly won't appeal to us as we like to research and DIY our own travel plans. The price differential between just booking a cruise and a cruise with a pre or post land tour is huge and it would be easy for someone to spend a little time booking it themselves and saving a LOT of money. 

[excitedofharpenden]

The pre and post packages in South America back end of last year and early this were a truly ridiculous price. I can't get excited about this rebrand at all. I don't understand the rationale.  

 

Phil 

[Shawnino]

Mrs. M and Lottie have hit the nail on the head.

Ultra-luxury cruisers aren't going to 'slum it' on a premium line just because there are overpriced land extensions on offer.

[hubofhockey]

9 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

Mrs. M and Lottie have hit the nail on the head.

Ultra-luxury cruisers aren't going to 'slum it' on a premium line just because there are overpriced land extensions on offer.

 

It's unlikely that they would move ahead with this program if the "City Stay" land portions weren't already a success.  Maybe they figure they have proof of concept.  

 

I suppose my biggest question is why they aren't using luxury hotels.  They are using hotels that any Azamara customer could just book online fairly cheaply.  For Hong Kong, I could book The Peninsula, do private Tours by Locals, and it at Michelin restaurants for cheaper than the Azamara land price.  It just makes no sense to most of us, but just maybe it does make sense to enough of their customers.

[Lottie A]

22 minutes ago, hubofhockey said:

 

It's unlikely that they would move ahead with this program if the "City Stay" land portions weren't already a success.  Maybe they figure they have proof of concept.  

 

I suppose my biggest question is why they aren't using luxury hotels.  They are using hotels that any Azamara customer could just book online fairly cheaply.  For Hong Kong, I could book The Peninsula, do private Tours by Locals, and it at Michelin restaurants for cheaper than the Azamara land price.  It just makes no sense to most of us, but just maybe it does make sense to enough of their customers.

Well I have to say that in all my Azamara cruises I have never met anyone who has booked a land tour pre or post cruise with Azamara. This isn't a new concept for the company, it has just been greatly expanded. I don't think there could be any conclusive hard data available that they will be successful....or not, at this point. 

 

It was apparent on one of the targeted surveys that I received a few months ago that Azamara were thinking about extending their pre and post cruise land tours and several questions were asked about how much I would be willing to pay for them. My answer was nothing as I would prefer to arrange my own. 

[cpgrneyes]

We have friends who only do Taulk tours. That concept of having everything preplanned as zero interest to me, as planning is a big part of the fun of traveling. Our friends may be part of the target market. They want everything planned for them, and it appears this is the new direction Azamara is going with their pre/post tours. While the prices seem crazy for those of us who do the research ourselves, it’s like still less than a Taulk tour.

[ellbon]

6 hours ago, hiccups said:

Here's a post I made last year about the then-branded "City Stays."
 

"I've been looking at a 7 night Pursuit cruise in October 2019, Monte Carlo to Barcelona. The cruise price starts at $2499, while the cruise plus the 3 night Barcelona City Stay starts at $6839. While I'm pretty tight with a dollar, I also weigh out convenience, and at times we've booked a hotel, air or transportation through the cruise line.

 

For the life of me, though, I can't figure out why the city stay would be $4340 more per person. As far as I can tell, it's transportation, hotel, some meals (B, L, D first day, B and L the second, B the third), and a private guide for a day. Two of the meals are advertised as dining with a local family, and there's a flamenco performance one evening, and a wine tasting the next. Can convenience really be worth that much to someone, or am I missing some factor that makes Azamara-booked city stays worth the extra price?"

It looks like those premiums are continuing!

In 2020 AZ using the same Barcelona  type package. The only thing I liked about it was the airport pick up and the hotel looked good online.  Also question why on a free day would you want to meet up with a local family for lunch. I have ,many ideas for that city but not  a picnic lunch. will be interesting to see what happens in the future.

[Shawnino]

4 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

 

It's unlikely that they would move ahead with this program if the "City Stay" land portions weren't already a success.  Maybe they figure they have proof of concept.  

 

I suppose my biggest question is why they aren't using luxury hotels.  They are using hotels that any Azamara customer could just book online fairly cheaply.  For Hong Kong, I could book The Peninsula, do private Tours by Locals, and it at Michelin restaurants for cheaper than the Azamara land price.  It just makes no sense to most of us, but just maybe it does make sense to enough of their customers.

 

I'm unconvinced. (As a shareholder, I hope you're right!)

CC is a small slice of the cruising population, and likely not representative, but I've seen anyone on this board say they were doing a City Stay.

[snowglobe]

1 hour ago, Shawnino said:

 

CC is a small slice of the cruising population, and likely not representative, but I've seen anyone on this board say they were doing a City Stay.

That’s because we’re the “planners” segment of their market... our small overall percentage does provide some support for Azamara’s projected targets for the expanded land tours. 😉

We’re not the ones they’re aiming for.

Edited June 20, 2019 by snowglobe

[Grandma Cruising]

On occasion we have bought cruises through a large TA where their package includes flights, a few nights in a hotel and all transfers, but generally we’ve done this because it’s worked out considerably less than buying the parts separately.  Obviously we are not Azamara’s target market given their prices!

Edited June 20, 2019 by Host Grandma Cruising

[little britain]

17 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

The pre and post packages in South America back end of last year and early this were a truly ridiculous price. I can't get excited about this rebrand at all. I don't understand the rationale.  

 

Phil 

I just checked out Glamping in the salt flats and the Atacama for £5000+pp and suggested it to DH .... you can guess his reply!!!!

[Bloodaxe]

8 hours ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

On occasion we have bought cruises through a large TA where their package includes flights, a few nights in a hotel and all transfers, but generally we’ve done this because it’s worked out considerably less than buying the parts separately.  Obviously we are not Azamara’s target market given their prices!

 

Neither are we, just completed a cruise on Pursuit with a 3 night pre cruise stay on Lake Garda flights and transfers with some O B C all at a fraction of Azamara prices.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Bloodaxe

[Riocca]

32 minutes ago, Bloodaxe said:

 

Neither are we, just completed a cruise on Pursuit with a 3 night pre cruise stay on Lake Garda flights and transfers with some O B C all at a fraction of Azamara prices.

I did wonder how travel agents who specialise in packaging cruises with tours would view this move, I'm assuming the commissions they will earn will compensate for any potential loss of business.

[hubofhockey]

14 hours ago, Shawnino said:

 

I'm unconvinced. (As a shareholder, I hope you're right!)

CC is a small slice of the cruising population, and likely not representative, but I've seen anyone on this board say they were doing a City Stay.

 

I don't think this will impact the price of RCI stock one bit and it's pretty low risk.  They set up these land tours and cancel them if not enough people sign up.  If enough sign up, they are splitting a huge margin with their land partner.  They lose nothing by changing their name to Azamara since most people have always referred to them as Azamara.  

 

I think they are on the right track and they might want to consider operating reasonably priced excursions 2-3 days before itineraries were to begin.  On my cruise, one of their days on the "Land Package" for HK is a day at Lantau Island.  If that was a reasonably priced excursion, I'd be interested.  As it is now, I will be there the same day as them, but do on our own.  Might have been a nice chance to meet people before the cruise and get acclimated.  It's also an opportunity for Azamara to make some money (which they are leaving on the table).  I get it that it doesn't fit with with their marketing small pre-cruise land vacations to their highest end customers.  

[PSULion]

I would definitely be interested in a package deal from Azamara if the price is right, especially with competitive air pricing on ChoiceAir for one-way international flights if I can't use FF miles. Based on their shore excursion costs, I would assume most travelers would be better off booking their own pre or post land tours, but there are 1) price insensitive travelers and 2) travelers who don't know or care to know how to navigate making travel arrangements (although you would still likely be better off financially using a local travel agent).

 

John R.

Edited June 20, 2019 by PSULion

[BBMacLaird]

18 hours ago, Shawnino said:

CC is a small slice of the cruising population, and likely not representative

 

It's fascinating for me to read along with this discussion.

I believe Azamara's CC community is the best example of the thoroughly-immersed, well-researched DIY traveler, regardless of price point; whether you're someone shopping for a deal or a price insensitive suite guest. I think by definition if you're actively following CC then you're a hands-on cruiser researching options, pricing, etc. and interested in every facet of the planning phase.

Shawnino is correct...not everyone is as hands-on as this community.

 

[ellbon]

My travel agent has made it clear in the past that she has to hand hold a few people. My agent finds flights, hotels etc. I tend  to ask if she likes one hotel over another but I have picked two or three  and say which one. I do not always use her choice. For my Japan flights i asked for help. She can pulled the airlines up faster than me. But for Europe I still book my own flights.

 

as far as touring in a city I do all my own research and book from home. 

 

 

 

 

[benjoon]

We did a post cruise trip on the Rocky Mountaineer. This was on the end of the first Alaskan cruise. There were 4 couples on the trip. When we arrived in Vancouver we were greeted by a representative of the tour company who informed us that because of the amount of people on the tour there would be no guide traveling with us and it was classed as an independent tour. We had a short tour before being dropped off at our first hotel. Due to the timing and having no one from the company with us we had to wait 3 hours for our rooms. The first evening there was a tour representative who was available for questions but she didn’t know many answers as she hadn’t done this thing before. If we had known it was going to be like that we wouldn’t have spent thousands through Azamara and booked it ourselves. Not sure if we would do one again.

[hubofhockey]

2 minutes ago, benjoon said:

We did a post cruise trip on the Rocky Mountaineer. This was on the end of the first Alaskan cruise. There were 4 couples on the trip. When we arrived in Vancouver we were greeted by a representative of the tour company who informed us that because of the amount of people on the tour there would be no guide traveling with us and it was classed as an independent tour. We had a short tour before being dropped off at our first hotel. Due to the timing and having no one from the company with us we had to wait 3 hours for our rooms. The first evening there was a tour representative who was available for questions but she didn’t know many answers as she hadn’t done this thing before. If we had known it was going to be like that we wouldn’t have spent thousands through Azamara and booked it ourselves. Not sure if we would do one again.

 

Ouch!  Did you ask for a partial refund?  You paid for a guide and they changed the classification of your trip.  I would be going nuts. ☹️

[Host Jazzbeau]

38 minutes ago, benjoon said:

We did a post cruise trip on the Rocky Mountaineer. This was on the end of the first Alaskan cruise. There were 4 couples on the trip. When we arrived in Vancouver we were greeted by a representative of the tour company who informed us that because of the amount of people on the tour there would be no guide traveling with us and it was classed as an independent tour. We had a short tour before being dropped off at our first hotel. Due to the timing and having no one from the company with us we had to wait 3 hours for our rooms. The first evening there was a tour representative who was available for questions but she didn’t know many answers as she hadn’t done this thing before. If we had known it was going to be like that we wouldn’t have spent thousands through Azamara and booked it ourselves. Not sure if we would do one again.

 

The Azamara website description of the new Land Tour program includes this feature – plus disclaimer:

First-Class Tour Directors & Guides

Dedicated to ensuring a seamless experience*.

 

*Provided the minimum participation of guest level is met.

 

but the alternative would be cancelling the tour, and then people would complain that they had booked airfare etc.

[benjoon]

30 minutes ago, hubofhockey said:

 

Ouch!  Did you ask for a partial refund?  You paid for a guide and they changed the classification of your trip.  I would be going nuts. ☹️

No refund.

[benjoon]

15 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

The Azamara website description of the new Land Tour program includes this feature – plus disclaimer:

First-Class Tour Directors & Guides

Dedicated to ensuring a seamless experience*.

 

*Provided the minimum participation of guest level is met.

 

but the alternative would be cancelling the tour, and then people would complain that they had booked airfare etc.

That might be the case for the new land packages but wasn’t mentioned when we booked over a year ago. 

 

If they cancelled we would have had to deal with flights and would have been disappointed. 

[Shawnino]

1 hour ago, benjoon said:

No refund.

 

Wow. What an Azamazing Ripoff.

[tgg]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

The Azamara website description of the new Land Tour program includes this feature – plus disclaimer:

First-Class Tour Directors & Guides

Dedicated to ensuring a seamless experience*.

 

*Provided the minimum participation of guest level is met.

 

but the alternative would be cancelling the tour, and then people would complain that they had booked airfare etc.

 

"Provided the minimum participation of guest level is met." 

 

Let's translate that into English:

 

If we don't sell enough of these, you're on your own. Fend for yourself and don't expect our help or a refund.

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, tgg said:

 

"Provided the minimum participation of guest level is met." 

 

Let's translate that into English:

 

If we don't sell enough of these, you're on your own. Fend for yourself and don't expect our help or a refund.

 

That fine print is a killer.  You really don't even know what you're buying when you sign up for this.  The only thing you can count on is the meals and hotel and those are incredible overcharges.  Agree that, if you don't want to DIY it, you're better off using a great travel agent who can book you into better hotels for less and good tours.