Large ships vs small "luxury" ships

[clo]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

So, just a distraction for the not so well heeled.   Or, the walmart crowd, as is frequently said here on CC.  Do you guys really want or need to make this distinction -- getting to sound kind of condescending.   

I think if @Joebucks would return THEY could make the distinction. I really don't know what they were talking about.

[Joebucks]

Maybe my original post wasn't articulated as eloquently as I wanted. I did not infer that there was no luxury available on the "luxury liners," because there are absolutely some things they do better than anyone else. However, I still firmly believe it is not the be-all, end-all of luxury.

 

Definition from Dictionary.com

noun, plural lux·u·ries.

- a material object, service, etc., conducive to sumptuous living, usually a delicacy, elegance, or refinement of living rather than a necessity:Gold cufflinks were a luxury not allowed for in his budget.
- free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being:a life of luxury on the French Riviera.
- a means of ministering to such indulgence or enjoyment:This travel plan gives you the luxury of choosing which countries you can visit.
- a pleasure out of the ordinary allowed to oneself:the luxury of an extra piece of the cake.
- a foolish or worthless form of self-indulgence:the luxury of self-pity.

 

I do not contest at all that many of these premium brands win in elegance, personalized serviced, etc. However, understand that there absolutely are many people that will spend more on a mass-market brand for various reasons. You can say it's because they overpaid. However, certain people value certain things. One person may want the grandest room and dining options, yet a lively nightlife. One person may find that Central Park on Oasis class ships is very soothing to them. A private pool and/or lounging area might be the most important factor to the next. No need to take offense that your luxury isn't luxurious.

 

It's all a very grey area because vacation in itself can be defined as a luxury.

 

[pacruise804]

- a means of ministering to such indulgence or enjoyment:This travel plan gives you the luxury of choosing which countries you can visit.

 

I quoted this portion of the description to relate back to @Joebucks original post, which if I remember right was about how luxury ships seem to have less options than larger ships.  In this aspect of luxury I agree, as well as that any vacation is a luxury 🙂 

 

For myself, not having as many choices/options is in itself a luxury since I have to do that so much in my daily life.  

[clo]

33 minutes ago, pacruise804 said:

how luxury ships seem to have less options than larger ships.

So are "we" saying that "luxury" means smaller? If so I never thought of it that way. Isn't Cunard large and also luxury? No wonder I've been confused.

[FlyerTalker]

8 minutes ago, clo said:

So are "we" saying that "luxury" means smaller? If so I never thought of it that way. Isn't Cunard large and also luxury? No wonder I've been confused.

 

Cunard is far from luxury unless you are in their uppermost Grill accommodations.  And even then, it's more of a "class" thing than lux.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

So, just a distraction for the not so well heeled.   Or, the walmart crowd, as is frequently said here on CC.  Do you guys really want or need to make this distinction -- getting to sound kind of condescending.   

 

Let me posit some working distinctions.  If you can only order lobster on "lobster night", you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you can't arrange to have items off the menu for your dinner, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you have art auctions, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you use your key card for other reasons more than you do for entering your room, you are not on a luxury vessel.

 

We can go on from there.

[clo]

6 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Cunard is far from luxury unless you are in their uppermost Grill accommodations.  And even then, it's more of a "class" thing than lux.

 

 

Okay then 🙂 So "luxury" does mean smaller.  Now I'VE finally learned he code.  YAY.

[calliopecruiser]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

However, I still firmly believe it is not the be-all, end-all of luxury.

Good Lord, no!  But nobody said, or even inferred, that it was.  What they did say is that luxury cruise lines offer more luxurious service and surroundings than mainline cruise lines. 

[clo]

17 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

We can go on from there.

Dare we add premium to the mix? Do they have more in common with luxury?

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, clo said:

I wasn't familiar with that expression. Spot on.

Bread and circuses - Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Bread_and_circuses

"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metonymic phrase critiquing superficial appeasement. It is attributed to Juvenal, a Roman poet active in the late first and early second century AD — and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.

The original context of the expression was how the emperor would retain the support of the population:  insure that there were always sufficient imports of grain (largely from North Africa) to keep the populace fed with low-priced food, and that there was free entertainment - “games” - including gladiator combats- in arenas such as the Colisseum - built by the Flavian emperors in mid-first century.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Okay then 🙂 So "luxury" does mean smaller.  Now I'VE finally learned he code.  YAY.

Of course “luxury” means smaller — far fewer can afford it (or are willing to pay for it) than can afford mass market, so you cannot fill as many bunks.  Your local delicatessen is smaller than your local Costco, just as Bergdorf Goodman is smaller than Walmart.

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Let me posit some working distinctions.  If you can only order lobster on "lobster night", you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you can't arrange to have items off the menu for your dinner, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you have art auctions, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you use your key card for other reasons more than you do for entering your room, you are not on a luxury vessel.

 

We can go on from there.

 

Just curious. Which ships do not have lobster available nightly? Or is all-inclusive lobster the only acceptable means of enjoying lobster?

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Let me posit some working distinctions.  If you can only order lobster on "lobster night", you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you can't arrange to have items off the menu for your dinner, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you have art auctions, you are not on a luxury vessel.  If you use your key card for other reasons more than you do for entering your room, you are not on a luxury vessel.

 

We can go on from there.

 

I understand the distinctions made for the luxury lines.  I don't really have a problem with them.   My comment aimed at use of the "Bread & Circus" phrase to describe mass market lines.  You know, the patricians vs the plebeians.  

 

As an aside, I don't necessarily understand why the distinction is always made between all included vs pay for what you want. But that is always part of the description.  

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, clo said:

I think if @Joebucks would return THEY could make the distinction. I really don't know what they were talking about.

 

It wasn't JoeBucks making the distinction I mentioned.  

[cruisemom42]

30 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I understand the distinctions made for the luxury lines.  I don't really have a problem with them.   My comment aimed at use of the "Bread & Circus" phrase to describe mass market lines.  You know, the patricians vs the plebeians.  

 

 

I have nothing at all against mass market lines; I have frequently sailed on and have plans to sail again on several of them. Some are quite good at what they do/provide.

 

But having been on ALL types of ships, that's just how I see it. Mass market ships are all about delivering food (and drink) and entertainment to those on board and keeping them happy.  Most of them do not put a major emphasis on the travel aspect, or on ports. (A very few do.) Most do not offer any type of educational component, like real lectures about the society, culture, art, politics and history of the places to be visited (Even fewer do.)  And for most, the approach is not necessarily how to provide a "high quality" experience but maybe one better described as having less emphasis on individual food or service experiences.

 

It just seems a little silly to pretend there is no difference between luxury and mass market cruises. I understand that some people definitely want and prefer what is featured on mass market cruises. But that doesn't make them "luxury" in the sense of how the word is used to differentiate levels of food, service, decor, activities, etc.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by cruisemom42

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have nothing at all against mass market lines; I have frequently sailed on and have plans to sail again on several of them. Some are quite good at what they do/provide.

 

...

 

Agreed - Cunard is somewhat formal, but is still mass market.  And we will most likely sail other mass market lines  again - they do provide a comfortable, and inexpensive way to cross the Atlantic - they are not luxury, but they are good “at what they do/provide.”

[ldubs]

9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have nothing at all against mass market lines; I have frequently sailed on and have plans to sail again on several of them. Some are quite good at what they do/provide.

 

But having been on ALL types of ships, that's just how I see it. Mass market ships are all about delivering food (and drink) and entertainment to those on board and keeping them happy.  Most of them do not put a major emphasis on the travel aspect, or on ports. (A very few do.) Most do not offer any type of educational component, like real lectures about the society, culture, art, politics and history of the places to be visited (Even fewer do.)

 

It just seems a little silly to pretend there is no difference between luxury and mass market cruises. I understand that some people definitely want and prefer what is featured on mass market cruises. But that doesn't make them "luxury" in the sense of how the word is used to differentiate levels of food, service, decor, activities, etc.

 

 

Seems like we are having two different conversations.  I said nothing about there being no difference between luxury vs mass market lines.  There certainly is a difference in the atmosphere from what I read.  

[calliopecruiser]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

As an aside, I don't necessarily understand why the distinction is always made between all included vs pay for what you want. But that is always part of the description.  

It's certainly part of the description of luxurious for me.......once aboard, I don't think about money, and that's a freedom that I find very luxurious.   Even if it would cost me less by paying piece by piece, I wouldn't have as good an experience. 

[clo]

3 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

It's certainly part of the description of luxurious for me.......once aboard, I don't think about money, and that's a freedom that I find very luxurious.   Even if it would cost me less by paying piece by piece, I wouldn't have as good an experience. 

I've not thought of this. On the truly all-inclusive, luxury ships, does that mean that you can order super expensive bottles of wine?

[calliopecruiser]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

On the truly all-inclusive, luxury ships

I only have experience with Crystal among the luxury lines, and they have some levels of wine that are an extra charge - but you can request a particular type of wine with dinner instead of what they recommend for that evening.  As I don't really drink wine and wouldn't know a super expensive one from a good, moderately priced one, I've never bothered.  And I can't comment on how other luxury lines handle it.  Crystal also has a level of spirits that incur an additional charge, but even my choice of a 20 year old tawny port is included.  I don't drink enough to have developed a palate to discern between good and great spirits. 

[navybankerteacher]

20 minutes ago, clo said:

I've not thought of this. On the truly all-inclusive, luxury ships, does that mean that you can order super expensive bottles of wine?

I am sure you can ORDER them...

[clo]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I am sure you can ORDER them...

LOL. Good distinction!

[ldubs]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:05 PM, calliopecruiser said:

It's certainly part of the description of luxurious for me.......once aboard, I don't think about money, and that's a freedom that I find very luxurious.   Even if it would cost me less by paying piece by piece, I wouldn't have as good an experience. 

 

I think what you describe meets every definition of luxury!   

[calliopecruiser]

8 hours ago, gpgal said:

I wouldn't call it luxurious. At all.

If you can't imagine it, how do you know it's not a luxurious experience?  LOL......I get that you can't, because thinking about what everything is costing us is a part of every day of life.......but that's what makes it such a luxury to be in a position not to have to think about it.  I do all my financial planning and saving before I buy the ticket - and then once it's done, I don't need to even consider it at all.   There aren't many times in life where we can do that; everybody, no matter how rich, has a budget.  It's only temporary, of course.

[Hlitner]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:27 PM, clo said:

I've not thought of this. On the truly all-inclusive, luxury ships, does that mean that you can order super expensive bottles of wine?

No.  We have  been on a few luxury lines that do include wine (and other top shelf drinks), but the included wine's are generally from a small group chosen for that particular day and are not what you would consider "super expensive" selections.  The better lines will also offer some alternative wines (not on the daily specials) but that list is limited and does not include "super expensive bottles."  The ships will also have a premium wine list that have many excellent wines too expensive to be among the all-inclusive selections.  The passengers who want one of the "super expensive wines" will be charged the price.  Keep in mind that many passengers have a pretty large On Board Credit (OBC) which they might use for wine (or special excursions) and many other passengers can afford their high priced wine habit.  Keep in mind that some wines can cost hundreds of dollars per bottle (i.e. Chateau Petrus, Chateau Margaux, Opus One, etc).  Our own experience is that the large majority of passengers are content with the daily recommended selections (included) although there are always a few Oenophiles willing to pay the big bucks.  We have also seen some passengers bringing aboard cases of their favorite wines (some luxury lines do not charge any corkage fees).

 

It is the same with some expensive drinks.  For example, most ships will carry a bottle of Remy Martin Louis XIII Cognac but we are not aware of any line that includes that item as a free offering.  In fact, most lines would not include much less expensive XOs without charging some kind of extra fee.  One can certainly debate the point, but the cruise line would tell you that it is not reasonble for them to increase fares for everyone so that a few can enjoy special items that can cost thousands of dollars per bottle.  Speaking of Louis XIII Cognac, we just came off a Princess cruise where they did have a bottle in Crooners.  I do not recall the exact cost but it was likely several hundred dollars for a single shot.

 

Hank