What type of credit card do you use when booking cruises?

[ducklite]

5 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

And why should he? Businesses go bust all the time and the owners always seem to just start up again. If a business can go bust and not pay its debts then start back up why shouldn't individuals?

I never said they shouldn't. However, I have always wondered how people would pay for financial advice from someone who has proven themselves to be poor with their finances.

[ducklite]

20 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Financial advice is always a topic that is funny to watch and flares up many emotions. The truth is, we all make different decisions. That is a hard concept for many to grasp because of the political climate we've created. Some have discovered you can make a great victim following if you teach them that their poor decisions are not their fault, and you are their solution.

 

I started working retail when I was a teen. I didn't have much to my name. Put in as many hours as I could. I liked having nice things, but would never ever, spend more than I had. College, car, luxuries, found ways to be responsible with all of them. Saved a chunk for a house, retirement, etc. Worked hard to get a few promotions. What I will say is I don't make anything near the 6 figure mark. However, at 33 my overall position is quite comfortable, and it would often be put down as something unrealistic to many people.

 

Ever take a look at the victims? Poor work ethic, excuses, poor spending habits, and many other poor life choices I won't get into. Can't afford to save for retirement, but can afford cigarettes, coffee, fast food, etc EVERY DAY. Yet the credit card is the problem. Are we blaming the food for all of the fat people?

 

Hell, look at most of the "money saving tactics" you will read on here. Looking for "sales and free" stuff like those things translate into something. $4,000 is $4,000 and your financials don't care about the marketing headlines or how something made you "feel". This could be my opinion, which is fine. However, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that my cruises paid for entirely by credit card points that I earned without putting myself into debt, or paying interest/fees on, is a bad thing.

Well said. There is the FOMO factor.  (Fear of missing out.)  Retailers have gotten incredibly good at instilling it into a consumer.  A person needs to get past emotional purchasing and instead use left brain decision making.

[2wheelin]

6 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I never said they shouldn't. However, I have always wondered how people would pay for financial advice from someone who has proven themselves to be poor with their finances.

They are learning from someone who admitted and learned from his mistake and proven himself to be better than many with finances.

Many of our best CEOs have had failed businesses—usually makes them better at what they do.

[ducklite]

10 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Did you make any mistakes in your 20's?  If you were going to a nutritionist, would it matter if you saw photos of them eating pizza 35 years ago?  At the very least, a broken clock is right twice a day, which includes both Dave Ramsey and his critics.  Each piece of advice should be examined independently of how one views the guy, good or bad.

I didn't have the option of making mistakes.  I was on my own, paying for college as I attended (and took a semester off when I hadn't been able to save enough for the tuition and books), paying rent, utilities, insurance, driving an old car, and trying to save for emergencies--some paychecks it was only a dollar or two.  I packed a lunch (and it was boring but healthy--always had a piece of fresh fruit which varied by what was in season) and made my coffee at home, worked as much OT as I could get with the job that gave me insurance, and picked up gig work a dozen or so times a year which was profitable (I usually made $100-200 a shift) but was erratic and couldn't be counted on.  I "survived."  My big splurge each week was a cup of coffee from a local place that had really good coffee for $.50 for a 20 ounce cup.  I stopped and got one on Saturday mornings as I went to the last five hours of my normal 50 hour work week.  My "free time" was spent studying.  I paid my bills and never had the attitude that I was entitled to something.  Now and then a larger than expected medical bill would come along and I'd call and make arrangements to pay it over time.  

[ducklite]

5 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

I know the vast portion of the population will. It's quite clear that there are two parallel worlds these days. One inhabited by the majority on here and that other one that doesn't have two cents to rub together.

 

And using the stat used earlier that's probably 97% of the population.

I disagree.  I believe that about half of the population of the US has some savings, but certainly not enough.  Many, MANY more could, but don't because they have a hard time separating wants and needs.  They want a Tahoe.  They need an Equinox (and could probably do just as well with a Corolla).  But they go lease the Tahoe and in four years have nothing.  For the same amount of money they could buy the Equinox and own it outright in four years, driving it for another 10 before it needs to be replaced.  But you can't fix stupid.

[ducklite]

11 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

They are learning from someone who admitted and learned from his mistake and proven himself to be better than many with finances.

Many of our best CEOs have had failed businesses—usually makes them better at what they do.

I"m not so sure he did, based on his comment about his folio at the end of the cruise.

 

And because of the good old boys network, many of these CEO's just go on to another company and run that one into the ground as well.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by ducklite

[pacruise804]

21 hours ago, clo said:

Who isnt?

 

I was thinking about you the other day and hadn't seen you post for a while.  Glad to "see" you are ok 🙂 

 

 

17 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, he worked himself out of debt.  Then he started his new business helping people use the process he used to also get out of debt.  

 

16 hours ago, ducklite said:

He declared bankruptcy.  I highly doubt he paid off every dine he owed.

 

According to his testimony he did file bankruptcy after doing everything he could to avoid it.  He also repaid as much of the bankruptcy debt as he was reasonably able as a matter of personal conviction for him but stresses others are not under the same obligation.

 

He is also still heavily invested in real estate and possibly makes more from it than Financial Peace (which is about more than just living debt free).

 

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

Ever take a look at the victims? Poor work ethic, excuses, poor spending habits, and many other poor life choices I won't get into. Can't afford to save for retirement, but can afford cigarettes, coffee, fast food, etc EVERY DAY. Yet the credit card is the problem. Are we blaming the food for all of the fat people?

 

 

Food is often blamed: sugar, grains, carbs, etc.  

 

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

I never said they shouldn't. However, I have always wondered how people would pay for financial advice from someone who has proven themselves to be poor with their finances.

I think many do so out of a sense of relatability - they want someone who has been where they are and come out the other side.  It can be hard for some to take advice from those who've never struggled because they think it all came easy for them or that person was just lucky.  Some prefer health advice from someone who overcame an unhealthy lifestyle (and maintains good health now) over someone who they think is just naturally healthy and never struggled.

----

Some of the comments I've read about the callers is not what I remember from when I listened.  While there were certainly some who were just outright lazy/stupid/made poor choices, there were also those who were encouraged to take large student loans for education (it's "good" debt) and then were burdened with high payments and entry level jobs, or loss of spouse (divorce or death), home sale falling through and suddenly having 2 mortgage payments.  There were also medical issues (insurance doesn't always cover everything) and job loss - not just poor spending decisions.  The show is also entertainment - they aren't putting on calls that aren't interesting or dramatic - even though that's what many situations are.  Even the ship board spending is being taken out of context from what I remember, and likely embellished/exaggerated for show value.

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

I know the vast portion of the population will. It's quite clear that there are two parallel worlds these days. One inhabited by the majority on here and that other one that doesn't have two cents to rub together.

 

And using the stat used earlier that's probably 97% of the population.

 

I realize what you say is true of this forum's membership.  I think I prefer to hang with your let em eat cake crowd.     

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, clo said:

My point is that if you get to retirement age, have a paid for house, no credit card debt, comfortably funded IRA/401(k) you may easily be a millionaire.

 

Related, we just visited a senior living place in Seattle. A one bedroom with "den" apartment and 25 meal per month per person would be over $6k per month for two people. We've been looking at that math for about ten years and planning accordingly...and adjusting discretionary spending accordingly.

 

So this was the point you were trying to make when you said isn't everyone a millionaire.  Don't understand how I missed that.  🙄

 

 

[ldubs]

Duplicate - Oops.  

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by ldubs

[RocketMan275]

50 minutes ago, pacruise804 said:

Some of the comments I've read about the callers is not what I remember from when I listened.  While there were certainly some who were just outright lazy/stupid/made poor choices, there were also those who were encouraged to take large student loans for education (it's "good" debt) and then were burdened with high payments and entry level jobs, or loss of spouse (divorce or death), home sale falling through and suddenly having 2 mortgage payments.  There were also medical issues (insurance doesn't always cover everything) and job loss - not just poor spending decisions.  The show is also entertainment - they aren't putting on calls that aren't interesting or dramatic - even though that's what many situations are.  Even the ship board spending is being taken out of context from what I remember, and likely embellished/exaggerated for show value.

I wasn't meaning to demean the callers.  I reported the typical caller from when I listened to Ramsey.  I haven't listened to his show since the mid-90s.  I'm sure typical calls changed after the events of 2008 and student loans weren't on anyones radars back then.

Of course, the show is entertainment but Rush said it best: "The first job of the caller is to make the host look good."  Ramsey uses the show to promote his Financial Peace University.  His call screeners look for calls that make him and his product look good.

[clo]

28 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

So this was the point you were trying to make when you said isn't everyone a millionaire.  Don't understand how I missed that.  🙄

 

 

And that planning for that day when $75k-$100k/yr goes out on like I mentioned.

[clo]

2 hours ago, ducklite said:

I disagree.  I believe that about half of the population of the US has some savings, but certainly not enough.  Many, MANY more could, but don't because they have a hard time separating wants and needs.  They want a Tahoe.  They need an Equinox (and could probably do just as well with a Corolla).  But they go lease the Tahoe and in four years have nothing.  For the same amount of money they could buy the Equinox and own it outright in four years, driving it for another 10 before it needs to be replaced.  But you can't fix stupid.

I think in some cases it's stupidity and for some it's ignorance. But some people have a closed mind when it comes to planning for the inevitable future. I know almost no one who is willing to even think about these things.

[ducklite]

42 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I wasn't meaning to demean the callers.  I reported the typical caller from when I listened to Ramsey.  I haven't listened to his show since the mid-90s.  I'm sure typical calls changed after the events of 2008 and student loans weren't on anyones radars back then.

Of course, the show is entertainment but Rush said it best: "The first job of the caller is to make the host look good."  Ramsey uses the show to promote his Financial Peace University.  His call screeners look for calls that make him and his product look good.

I used to listen to him because for part of my route it was the only station I could pick up.  It was sadly amusing hearing the people who called and their story.  I could only shake my head and wonder how they find their way out of their house each day.  The worst were the people who had repeated the cycle over and over.  

 

Now and then there would be someone who had their act together and was soliciting advice about an "either/or" situation which made perfect sense.  Something like, "My wife and I paid off our student loans last year and are now saving for a home.  We just came into a small nest egg and are wondering if we should pay off our car loan or put it into our house fund.  The car is our only debt except the recurring monthly bills and a credit card with a $300 balance that we pay every month."   

 

Most of them were like the show "Hoarders" only with debt instead of stuff.  Although most of them had a lot of junk paid for with the debt, so there is that.

[RocketMan275]

12 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I used to listen to him because for part of my route it was the only station I could pick up.  It was sadly amusing hearing the people who called and their story.  I could only shake my head and wonder how they find their way out of their house each day.  The worst were the people who had repeated the cycle over and over.  

The sad thing is how we have let down so many people by not exposing them to basic economics, how to manage your money, etc., while they were in middle/high school.  I'm a bit old for kids now, but if I had children, I would enroll them Ramsey's classes for middle/high school students.

[ducklite]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The sad thing is how we have let down so many people by not exposing them to basic economics, how to manage your money, etc., while they were in middle/high school.  I'm a bit old for kids now, but if I had children, I would enroll them Ramsey's classes for middle/high school students.

My son had a "life skills" class that was mandatory in high school.  They could take it as a junior or senior, but couldn't graduate without it.  Balancing a checkbook, creating a budget, preparing a tax return, opening a bank account, filling out a job application, interview skills, much more.  

We taught him much of that at home as well.

[RocketMan275]

Just now, ducklite said:

My son had a "life skills" class that was mandatory in high school.  They could take it as a junior or senior, but couldn't graduate without it.  Balancing a checkbook, creating a budget, preparing a tax return, opening a bank account, filling out a job application, interview skills, much more.  

We taught him much of that at home as well.

That's what I was talking about. Doesn't happen in this area that I'm aware of.  I know my grand kids didn't get that.

[ducklite]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

That's what I was talking about. Doesn't happen in this area that I'm aware of.  I know my grand kids didn't get that.

My son attended a private school.  I don't think the public's teach it.  They should.

[clo]

Just now, ducklite said:

My son attended a private school.  I don't think the public's teach it.  They should.

My stepdaughters grew up in a very affluent area in NorCal but their mom taught them well.  When the older wasn't old enough to drive she had save $1000. Her mom thought that was too much money to sit in a savings account so she got her into a mutual fund 🙂

[Travelicious]

2 hours ago, ducklite said:

My son attended a private school.  I don't think the public's teach it.  They should.

We had a class like that in my small town public high school.  My dad taught it for many years in the 70s - 90s.  It included a credit for class work and a credit for having an actual job.   It was not mandatory, but probably should have been.

[AlanF65]

There is a Dave Ramsey Cruise on March 22, was searching for something else and saw this.

 

You're debt-free—you've earned this!

You have done the hard work and lived like no one else. Now it's time to celebrate your freedom! For the first time ever, Dave Ramsey is thrilled to host the Live Like No One Else Cruise. Join Dave, his team of world-renowned personalities, and some incredible special guests as they set sail for seven luxurious days in the Caribbean.

 

Holland America's Nieuw Statendam ship for the debt-free celebration of a lifetime, March 22–29, 2020

Edited February 12, 2020 by AlanF65

[Stateroom_Sailor]

10 hours ago, ducklite said:

I didn't have the option of making mistakes.  I was on my own, paying for college as I attended (and took a semester off when I hadn't been able to save enough for the tuition and books), paying rent, utilities, insurance, driving an old car, and trying to save for emergencies--some paychecks it was only a dollar or two.  I packed a lunch (and it was boring but healthy--always had a piece of fresh fruit which varied by what was in season) and made my coffee at home, worked as much OT as I could get with the job that gave me insurance, and picked up gig work a dozen or so times a year which was profitable (I usually made $100-200 a shift) but was erratic and couldn't be counted on.  I "survived."  My big splurge each week was a cup of coffee from a local place that had really good coffee for $.50 for a 20 ounce cup.  I stopped and got one on Saturday mornings as I went to the last five hours of my normal 50 hour work week.  My "free time" was spent studying.  I paid my bills and never had the attitude that I was entitled to something.  Now and then a larger than expected medical bill would come along and I'd call and make arrangements to pay it over time.  

 

You might be more of an exception, but most people learn their big lessons in their 20's.  That can be financial, dating, substance, career, toxic family, poor health, bad driving, etc.  The range can be anywhere from a "goodie two shoes" dabbling with a vice, to someone hitting rock bottom in a hospital bed.

 

If we're going to ask for an absolute purity test, Dave Ramsey already blew his shot in the 80's.  The problem is, most teachers have a passion due to personal experience.  Someone teaching a 12 step program likely has had a substance abuse problem, and can relate better than someone who's never tasted a drop of alcohol.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The sad thing is how we have let down so many people by not exposing them to basic economics, how to manage your money, etc., while they were in middle/high school.  I'm a bit old for kids now, but if I had children, I would enroll them Ramsey's classes for middle/high school students.

 

No, the sad thing is how many kids didn't have a good parental example.  My millennial doughters are great personal finance managers and never got any instruction in school.  But my wife and I were pretty transparent about our finances and our financial decision making process.  And they were smart enough to absorb the lessons of no debt other than home, living below your means, maxxing out matching in 401ks, pay off credit cards in full every month, etc.

[That sinking feeling]

18 hours ago, ducklite said:

I didn't have the option of making mistakes.  I was on my own, paying for college as I attended (and took a semester off when I hadn't been able to save enough for the tuition and books), paying rent, utilities, insurance, driving an old car, and trying to save for emergencies--some paychecks it was only a dollar or two.  I packed a lunch (and it was boring but healthy--always had a piece of fresh fruit which varied by what was in season) and made my coffee at home, worked as much OT as I could get with the job that gave me insurance, and picked up gig work a dozen or so times a year which was profitable (I usually made $100-200 a shift) but was erratic and couldn't be counted on.  I "survived."  My big splurge each week was a cup of coffee from a local place that had really good coffee for $.50 for a 20 ounce cup.  I stopped and got one on Saturday mornings as I went to the last five hours of my normal 50 hour work week.  My "free time" was spent studying.  I paid my bills and never had the attitude that I was entitled to something.  Now and then a larger than expected medical bill would come along and I'd call and make arrangements to pay it over time.  

You didnt have the option?

 

You do realise that mistakes are just that. Mistakes.sometimes and probably most of the time people make mistakes by accident.and by definition an accident is just that. An accident.

 

You did have the option. You are just one of those that managed not to. 

[RocketMan275]

7 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

No, the sad thing is how many kids didn't have a good parental example.  My millennial doughters are great personal finance managers and never got any instruction in school.  But my wife and I were pretty transparent about our finances and our financial decision making process.  And they were smart enough to absorb the lessons of no debt other than home, living below your means, maxxing out matching in 401ks, pay off credit cards in full every month, etc.

Yes, parents have a role to play.  But since not all parents are good examples, perhaps the school system could forgo some diversity and gender training to offer some financial training?