Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[Paulchili]

6 hours ago, ab21au said:

and there is a criminal investigation in AUS re the Ruby Princess which left Sydney on the 8th March. Why would you get on the Ruby Princess in March and put money before your life.  
 

Let's not forget that the Encore also left Sydney on March 8th - we were supposed to be on her but passed....

Those passengers seem to be putting money before life.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Paulchili

[westmount]

I hate to say it, but anyone who boarded a cruise ship after march first has only themselves to blame, as hard as that is to come to grip with.  Forgetting the fact that passengers probably could have canceled with future credits at the time, each person has to decide for themselves whether their health is more valuable than a vacation, and the risk associated with that decision. 

The crews probably have a good case, but good luck to them, hopefully their conditions of employment improve as a result of all this. 

 

[SLSD]

2 hours ago, westmount said:

I hate to say it, but anyone who boarded a cruise ship after march first has only themselves to blame, as hard as that is to come to grip with.  

 

I agree with you on this statement westmount.  I think the sad fact is that some listened to news media who did not cover the virus accurately.  It makes me so sad that so many believed the virus was "a hoax" or an attempt to destroy the president.  Others of us read far and wide and knew the peril we were facing.  I can't imagine boarding a ship after March 1st!  In fact, I was stocking my pantry for emergency in mid February and have the labels on frozen meat to prove it.  Some here were still contemplating sailing.  It is such an upside down world we live in.  I pray for the day when once again facts are facts and battling a pandemic is a bi-partisan endeavor.  Most of all, I hope that all of us who love Seabourn cruises stay safe and well.  

[westmount]

To be honest, my comment was based on the fact that somewhere around the 20/22 of February , we were told on the ship that Asia was a no go to zone and our cruise to Singapore was being rerouted to Australia. We sailed on the 12th and every day a new story was coming out. I can only speak for our Seabourn  cruise, but word was getting around that many ports were now refusing cruise ship entry. I don’t remember when the Crown Princess became a major story,  but if that didn’t scare the wits out of everyone, I’m not quite sure what would

have. 
  Since we were on the ship for two weeks already with a healthy crew and passengers, we felt safer than what we were seeing on TV, but I remember thinking that anyone getting on in the Seychelles was posing a risk to us, and in some ways, we were lucky there were only a few and all healthy. 
   At that time, every day seem to have 48 hours of Coronavirus news and stories, especially about cruise ships, as it was hot news, so again, the cruise lines should never had allowed anyone to board a ship without testing, and since no test was available outside of temperature reading ( we did not see Seabourn do that even) they really put their passengers at risk. 
  Its hard to know when Carnival knew that they were stopping various cruises, as there seemed to be a game of chicken going on with booked passengers cancelling for refunds vs FCC, but living through 17 days lost at sea tells me corporate Seabourn , or the bosses at Carnival we’re not thinking about their passengers on the water more than the deposits and refunds for cruises over the following weeks etc. It took an announcement from Viking to get the ball rolling that the world was about to come to standstill and that crisis lines needed to stop the madness. 
  I saw the CEO of Carnival on TV yesterday, talking about the issues of  today and The bright future when all this is done, but a review of actions taken , or not taken in February need to be reviewed and investigated, as people died that didn’t have to. The Seabourn staff was great, and made our lost journey a wonderful experience, and the line lucky none of their passengers were inflicted with the virus, but somebody rolled the dice for a month too long, and now they will pay the price for that. 
 

[zimflyer]

1 hour ago, westmount said:

To be honest, my comment was based on the fact that somewhere around the 20/22 of February , we were told on the ship that Asia was a no go to zone and our cruise to Singapore was being rerouted to Australia. We sailed on the 12th and every day a new story was coming out. I can only speak for our Seabourn  cruise, but word was getting around that many ports were now refusing cruise ship entry. I don’t remember when the Crown Princess became a major story,  but if that didn’t scare the wits out of everyone, I’m not quite sure what would

have. 
  Since we were on the ship for two weeks already with a healthy crew and passengers, we felt safer than what we were seeing on TV, but I remember thinking that anyone getting on in the Seychelles was posing a risk to us, and in some ways, we were lucky there were only a few and all healthy. 
   At that time, every day seem to have 48 hours of Coronavirus news and stories, especially about cruise ships, as it was hot news, so again, the cruise lines should never had allowed anyone to board a ship without testing, and since no test was available outside of temperature reading ( we did not see Seabourn do that even) they really put their passengers at risk. 
  Its hard to know when Carnival knew that they were stopping various cruises, as there seemed to be a game of chicken going on with booked passengers cancelling for refunds vs FCC, but living through 17 days lost at sea tells me corporate Seabourn , or the bosses at Carnival we’re not thinking about their passengers on the water more than the deposits and refunds for cruises over the following weeks etc. It took an announcement from Viking to get the ball rolling that the world was about to come to standstill and that crisis lines needed to stop the madness. 
  I saw the CEO of Carnival on TV yesterday, talking about the issues of  today and The bright future when all this is done, but a review of actions taken , or not taken in February need to be reviewed and investigated, as people died that didn’t have to. The Seabourn staff was great, and made our lost journey a wonderful experience, and the line lucky none of their passengers were inflicted with the virus, but somebody rolled the dice for a month too long, and now they will pay the price for that. 
 

I am not bashing anybody, but Westmount is absolutely right. Carnival, (and possibly others, I am not an expert), rolled the dice, and made one single decision... to keep as many $$$ as possible.

 

Now the rolling argument on this forum begins again,  where some posters here would rather want to save:

the corporation, share values and the future of the cruise company,etc.

 

AHEAD OF ANY SERIOUS CONCERN by the corporations in protecting lives....

(Very Boeing, lets not let anyone know what we know, and it will all go away, and our share price is safe)

 

For me this is not on, it is unjustifiable to risk anything, when you already know from the Diamond Princess episode in Japan had propensity to spread this new and dangerous virus, more especially when your prime age group coincides with that for which morbidity is a likely outcome. And most of all, don't  forget your well trained, good natured crew who, even now, seem to be stuck on these ships... outrageous.

 

Moral ambiguity, $$$ grabbing, combined with a continued lack of even mass updates to all your faithful clients and leaving staff in the danger zone.

 

This is not just poor - it's as bad as Trump attacking the W.H.O. totally outrageous.

[ab21au]

16 hours ago, jozi said:

Sadly people were still getting mixed messages as late as March 8.

In AUS, our PM by then was giving daily updates. 
 

Feb 1 : a ban on travel from/through mainland China

March 9 : reconsider all cruising

March 11 : a ban on travel from Italy

March 13 : all Australians to reconsider the need to travel overseas

March 17 : all Australians to return home ASAP

March 18 : DO NOT TRAVEL to any country

March 24 : a Gov ban on any overseas travel

 

The thing that I find interesting is that Australia’s PM announced a pandemic 2 weeks prior to WHO

 

I watched many press conferences in early March and our PM and Trumps media conferences were like chalk and cheese. Some said ours were too negative but I would rather that than Trumps positivity.  
 

This is an article from our news and repeated, in frustration, by our PM. 
 

“Thousands of Australians ignored Prime Minister Scott Morrison's call to stop overseas travel during the coronavirus pandemic, new data reveals.

 

The Federal Government raised the advice for all overseas travel to the highest level - four - on 18 March, meaning everyone - regardless of destination, age or health - should not travel overseas.

 

But about 16,000 Australian citizens still chose to fly overseas between 19-30 March, despite the restrictions.  The staggering figure was revealed in data provided by the Department of Home Affairs.

 

A further 3,800 Australians flew out after the official ban on all overseas travel came into force on 24 March, though they did require a government exemption, which can be granted for people who ordinarily live overseas, have essential work abroad or on compassionate grounds. 

 

All returning overseas travellers are now required to undergo mandatory quarantine in hotel rooms and other accommodation, funded by state governments.

 

The West Australian government is considering whether it is possible to charge returning Australians who travelled overseas despite the warnings.

 

“It was grossly irresponsible of people to go to Bali or Thailand or Britain or wherever it was,” WA Premier Mark McGowan said.

 

 

[westmount]

There’s an article in Bloomberg today that details the Carnival saga, which when read doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about them. 
 Back at home, our Prime Minister defends the actions they took , or didn’t take early on , simply taking action when they felt it was the right time to do so, as the citizens were not ready for a lock down in early February and would not have followed instructions. 
  Presuming Carnival received minute by minute updates on hotspots around the world, and actions being taken by local governments to stem the spread of the virus, all the cruiselines should have been the big boys in the room and stopped all cruises in the Orient in February and everything else March 1st, as they put crews and passengers at risk. 
   It’s not that they didn’t do what they can when forced to do so, but given the bad press from the Princess cruiseline issue, and given what we know now, I’m not quite sure how else they expected this to turn out? 
   I wonder if Seabourn would have acted differently if orders weren’t being given from Miami vs Seattle, time will tell. 
 The Mayors of Ammvtyiille always have their way until the shark has its lunch, history should teach these people it’s not the way to do business any longer. 

[norm2002]

Health meets politics! But what does this say about Miami as a cruising base? Tampa Bay Times.

Edited April 16, 2020 by norm2002

[Silver Spectre]

On 4/13/2020 at 10:10 AM, Reef Knot said:

Try getting a refund from an airline. Many will not entertain a cash refund and are only willing to give a voucher. 

 

 

 

 

That may be true outside the UK and for some airlines, however after BA cancelled our May flights to France, a polite phoned request for a cash refund resulted in a credit back to my Amex within 3 working days.

[Paulchili]

On 4/13/2020 at 2:10 AM, Reef Knot said:

Ok, these are exceptional times and to be fair, it's not only the cruise industry that can be accused of highway robbery.

Try getting a refund from an airline

Today I called KLM to cancel a flight from CDG to SFO that was not even officially cancelled yet (an award flight).

The returned miles showed up in my account the SAME day without a re-deposit fee and the tax refund will follow. Iberia is a little slower but cancelled my award flight without a fee; UA already returned both my miles and fees within a week.

Seabourn on the other hand still has not returned my taxes from a cruise I cancelled on 2/27 and refuses to either answer my calls or respond to messages I leave.' I also filed a separate claim for air change fees - at least I would like to know that they have received it and are working on it. Is that too much to expect?

Shame, shame, shame.

Seabourn is not responsible for Covid but their response in a time of crisis is reprehensible.

I only have a few Seabourn cruises under my belt and while they were perfectly fine, nothing about them made me a Seabourn cheerleader for life over the likes of Crystal, Regent, Silversea or even Oceania.

It's easy to be gracious when all is going well while collecting huge amounts of moneys from their customers - the proof of the pudding is how one responds at at time of crisis. And SB here is failing horribly.

After I spend my FCC (if either Seabourn or I survive this pandemic to do so) I will never spend another dime of my hard earned money with them.

Rant over.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Paulchili

[HappyFeet13]

Much as i have enjoyed Seabourn, i agree with you. When we are able to sail again, i will try another cruise line.  

[Mark56]

Me too. You know how long it takes to issue a credit card refund? 5 minutes tops and that’s if you’re a slow learner. I do it everyday and it’s not rocket science. Instead, they have the nerve to make us all wait 12 weeks to get a refund. I’m confident it would take one employee two days to issue refunds to an entire ship worth of customers. The reason they’re holding and using our money is because they feel like they can get away with it. American Airlines refunded our flights within 48 hours of my request. That’s how it should be done if you want to keep your customers.

[teamflames]

17 minutes ago, Mark56 said:

Me too. You know how long it takes to issue a credit card refund? 5 minutes tops and that’s if you’re a slow learner. I do it everyday and it’s not rocket science. Instead, they have the nerve to make us all wait 12 weeks to get a refund. I’m confident it would take one employee two days to issue refunds to an entire ship worth of customers. The reason they’re holding and using our money is because they feel like they can get away with it. American Airlines refunded our flights within 48 hours of my request. That’s how it should be done if you want to keep your customers.

100% agree with you. I live at a hotel resort and the manager refunded 6 months worth of cancellations in 2 days single handedly. Anytime I have mentioned this in any thread on cc the cheerleaders have howled next down as being unreasonable. I haven’t heard of one person getting a refund in the last 3 weeks? So even if it were a load issue wouldn’t we have heard from someone each day?

Its clearly a cash management play (every business does this between their receivables and payables).

Seabourn not the only line taking “weeks to months” to process but they have been the most silent line throughout this tough time. Like others on here in recent times I don’t think they have shown a good face towards their customers in a time of crisis.

[Joc123]

We had a NONREFUNDABLE Business Class fare with Qantas Sydney - Auckland.

We rang them when it was cancelled to see if there was anything we could do - it was returned to our credit card by the end of the phone call.

 

Air New Zealand is a different story.

We booked and paid Business Class fares San Fransisco - Adelaide via Auckland in December 2019. This flight was cancelled yesterday (everyone knew it was not going to happen) and their offer is -

voucher to use at a later date or

cash refund less cancellation fee ($AU1500)

THEY CANCELLED, NOT US

I can’t help thinking this is nothing short of theft! To add insult to injury it will take up to 60 days for refund.

 We have spoken with insurance company (Am Ex) and they want $AU250 to lodge the claim (the first we have ever made).

 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect our money back (within a reasonable time frame) for services not received. Air New Zealand has had the use of our money for 5months, Seabourn for 16months, it’s time to give it back - all of it!

 

 

[zimflyer]

32 minutes ago, teamflames said:

100% agree with you. I live at a hotel resort and the manager refunded 6 months worth of cancellations in 2 days single handedly. Anytime I have mentioned this in any thread on cc the cheerleaders have howled next down as being unreasonable. I haven’t heard of one person getting a refund in the last 3 weeks? So even if it were a load issue wouldn’t we have heard from someone each day?

Its clearly a cash management play (every business does this between their receivables and payables).

Seabourn not the only line taking “weeks to months” to process but they have been the most silent line throughout this tough time. Like others on here in recent times I don’t think they have shown a good face towards their customers in a time of crisis.

Finally, after 3 weeks plus on this topic, people are seeing the ugly truth - money matters, goodwill does not.

 

WE can spend my dollars where WE want. If we don't get what we have paid for it is just wrong to give us a "gift card" for future use with a restricted time limit.

 

I will be spending elsewhere in future, (like Crystal, Oceania and Azamara ALL of which have been sending weekly emails appraising situation...) Even Celebrity, ( our last trip 2015) has been in touch advising what they have and will be doing...

 

IT'S REALLY NOT THAT DIFFICULT....

 

If I were CEO, and realised that 20 odd previous faithful clients were getting this upset with my company, I would act immediately.

 

Sadly, very sadly ...I believe there is a huge mindset of complacency with the SB management. This could be their own undoing...

 

 

[teamflames]

3 minutes ago, Joc123 said:

We had a NONREFUNDABLE Business Class fare with Qantas Sydney - Auckland.

We rang them when it was cancelled to see if there was anything we could do - it was returned to our credit card by the end of the phone call.

 

Air New Zealand is a different story.

We booked and paid Business Class fares San Fransisco - Adelaide via Auckland in December 2019. This flight was cancelled yesterday (everyone knew it was not going to happen) and their offer is -

voucher to use at a later date or

cash refund less cancellation fee ($AU1500)

THEY CANCELLED, NOT US

I can’t help thinking this is nothing short of theft! To add insult to injury it will take up to 60 days for refund.

 We have spoken with insurance company (Am Ex) and they want $AU250 to lodge the claim (the first we have ever made).

 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect our money back (within a reasonable time frame) for services not received. Air New Zealand has had the use of our money for 5months, Seabourn for 16months, it’s time to give it back - all of it!

 

 

We had same problem with Singapore air and it appears Australian authorities are allowing these air credits even where the company cancels. We just kept responding we want refund and raised a dispute with credit card and they finally agreed but of course have told us it will take weeks to process

[rallydave]

3 minutes ago, zimflyer said:

I will be spending elsewhere in future, (like Crystal, Oceania and Azamara ALL of which have been sending weekly emails appraising situation...) Even Celebrity, ( our last trip 2015) has been in touch advising what they have and will be doing..

Can't speak about Crystal or Oceania but, I do read the Azamara Board and they are even more upset than on this Board.  Larry Pimental, CEO and President just left after selling $1.9M worth of stock back in Feb at it's peak and 26% of the staff has been laid off including the head of the Loyalty Department.  The party line is Larry is retiring but, knowledgeable on the board believe otherwise and that RCL may be ridding themselves of Azamara.

 

Don't believe the grass is any greener on other cruise lines.

[zimflyer]

5 minutes ago, Joc123 said:

We had a NONREFUNDABLE Business Class fare with Qantas Sydney - Auckland.

We rang them when it was cancelled to see if there was anything we could do - it was returned to our credit card by the end of the phone call.

 

Air New Zealand is a different story.

We booked and paid Business Class fares San Fransisco - Adelaide via Auckland in December 2019. This flight was cancelled yesterday (everyone knew it was not going to happen) and their offer is -

voucher to use at a later date or

cash refund less cancellation fee ($AU1500)

THEY CANCELLED, NOT US

I can’t help thinking this is nothing short of theft! To add insult to injury it will take up to 60 days for refund.

 We have spoken with insurance company (Am Ex) and they want $AU250 to lodge the claim (the first we have ever made).

 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect our money back (within a reasonable time frame) for services not received. Air New Zealand has had the use of our money for 5months, Seabourn for 16months, it’s time to give it back - all of it!

 

 

Pop over to CCritic Forum here " SB refunds and Covid 19..."

 

Many suggest a recharge on c/card. Air NZ, SB whomever will have to respond to cc company and justify...

 

Also check Consumer Affairs, if product not supplied, you should be due refund...but may not apply in  your country.

 

Keep smiling , above all it's a good life lesson: excuse personal sidetrack here..

 

20 years ago I was diagnosed with terminal illness, realised there were people , 'friends', employers and others that were in my circle which did not help me, they were just baggage. A free valuable lesson when I realised this and got on with the things, people that mattered. It was a gift, I am still grateful.

 

Now we have the GIFT of knowing what the true nature of this matter,  far different underneath all the marketing and hype,

...so we can move elsewhere should we decide too

 

[marazul]

22 minutes ago, zimflyer said:

I will be spending elsewhere in future, (like Crystal, Oceania and Azamara ALL of which have been sending weekly emails appraising situation...) Even Celebrity, ( our last trip 2015) has been in touch advising what they have and will be doing...

 

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

[zimflyer]

3 minutes ago, marazul said:

 

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

It doesnt matter about other lines. Are we not expecting SB to be BETTER than the other lines, given their own marketing toward highly polished, professional service.

 

When you are awaiting news on a refund of tens of thousands of dollars for 4 weeks plus, plus...

 

...any response at all makes you cheerful, I got my first response a week ago but I am very cheerful to finally know that it is in the system.... 😉😉😉

Edited April 17, 2020 by zimflyer
Missed text

[JodiandFrank]

Marazul -  In answer your your question.  One month ago today we cancelled our July Seabourn Cruise....that same day my girlfriend cancelled her family cruise to Alaska on one of the Disney ships.  Within one week she her nearly $40,000 credited to her credit card.....

I am still waiting.

[marazul]

Well, it does matter if anyone is planning to spend elsewhere hoping for a better response in the future.  And, as a matter of curiosity, it would be interesting to know whether other lines have been more responsive refunding the money.

 

I am also waiting for my refund and any cash will also make me cheerful...😉

[Paulchili]

37 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Can't speak about Crystal or Oceania

A lot of people have received refunds on Oceania

[marazul]

Jodiandfrank,

I just saw your reply. That's a great response from Disney. Unfortunately for me, I don't see me sailing with Mickey. But kudos for them.

[rallydave]

21 minutes ago, marazul said:

 

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

Very few if any reports of refunds on Azamara. And remembered Oceania after Paul posted and yes some positive posts and some not positive posts like one who submitted a day before a friend 4 weeks ago and the friend got a refund in a few days while the poster hasn’t gotten any communication. On Azamara almost total silence.