Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[Geraldine Butler]

I rang Seabourn Australia on Wednesday to enquire how our refund was going.  We were booked on the Ovation from Hong Kong to Singapore leaving 29 February (cancelled) and Singapore to Athens leaving 15 March (also cancelled).  We are owed a AU$46,000 refund.

 

They told me that they had processed our refunds and passed them on to a company called Paymode for processing.  They had no idea when Paymode would give us our refund and from their point of view, the matter was out of their hands.  They also told me there is no way I can contact Paymode and I would just have to be patient.  But in the meantime I am welcome to contact them any time to book a future cruise.

[Paulchili]

31 minutes ago, Geraldine Butler said:

They told me that they had processed our refunds and passed them on to a company called Paymode for processing

I have never heard of Paymode but apparently this is who they are:

https://www.paymode-x.com/

You can either try to log in (?open an account) and see if your money is there or dispute the charges with your credit card until you receive the payment when you can drop the dispute.

I am sure your CC would know how to contact Paymode 😀

[Wendy The Wanderer]

3 hours ago, rallydave said:

Can't speak about Crystal or Oceania but, I do read the Azamara Board and they are even more upset than on this Board.  Larry Pimental, CEO and President just left after selling $1.9M worth of stock back in Feb at it's peak and 26% of the staff has been laid off including the head of the Loyalty Department.  The party line is Larry is retiring but, knowledgeable on the board believe otherwise and that RCL may be ridding themselves of Azamara.

 

Don't believe the grass is any greener on other cruise lines.

 

Yikes!  That does sound very fishy.  But I agree that the grass is not greener...

 

3 hours ago, marazul said:

 

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

 

I know Regent seemed to be playing chicken with cancelling cruises back in March.  I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have a world cruise booked on Regent for next January, and I've been told that if I cancel it, I will have to wait for 90 days for a refund.  So no, grass definitely not greener.

 

[MightyQuinn]

3 hours ago, marazul said:

 

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

 

Crystal is no better.  We're still waiting for monies from an Asia cruise that Crystal cancelled on Feb 21, which happened well before they announced a 90-day waiting period for refunds.  Our TA has followed up to no avail.  Crystal recently posted a cheerful, reassuring message on CC about their financial viability and suggested anybody with questions should email Guest Relations.  We did and those emails remain unanswered. 

On March 4, we cancelled Open Deposit Bookings with Crystal as well as Future Cruise Deposits with Seabourn.  These are not related to the rolling covid cancellations and should be processed as regular refunds.  But 6 weeks later, we still wait.  Taking bets on when we actually see the money from either cruise line.

[dalliowner]

I wonder if any cruise line has paid anybody a refund.

We keep hearing how much a month this virus is costing the cruise industry but I have yet to hear of anyone who has received a penny yet.

[HappyFeet13]

I have a new angle I'm trying to try to get a $47,000 refund.  I booked via American Express travel, and paid them...not Seabourn or Qantas directly.  Seabourn and Qantas do not owe me a refund...they owe it to AmEx.  Seabourn and Qantas will not deal with me directly, since I did not book the trip. They require me to go through AmEx. I have written AmEx and to told them that American Express Travel charged me for air and cruise, and they did not deliver because the cruise and air was cancelled. AmEx, therefore, owes me my money back, right now.  If they have a problem getting THEIR money back from Seabourn and Qantas, that is THEIR problem, not mine. I paid THEM, and they owe me. I believe that this approach will work. If you use a TA, you might try the same approach. I'll let you know what happens with AmEx. 

[westmount]

I'm going to guess that refunds under $1000 will be processed as promised, as that probably represents half the claims and 20% of the money, and the rest will be given enhanced FCC before potential cheques go out. Outside of Disney, who might be a different animal, the rest are hanging in for dear life, and unless their backers believe that refunding us is more important than paying staff, debt, and overhead, and put in more money to cover the refunds, I doubt cheques will be going out so quickly. This is not a Seabourn issue, but time will tell if carnival, Royal Carribean or Norweigen step up to the plate and pay everyone back before they reopen for business, I don't see it. 

   Here in Canada, the Government has announced no refunds for air passengers, Air Line  future credits will stand, as they didn't want to be funding passengers when their only concern is workers and employees. 

In any case, all the cruise lines mentioned are good ones, and everyone should try the various lines out, Regent, Oceania, Silverseas and Seabourn, but don't ever kid yourself that one will treat your money differently than the other, we created the system, its up to us to change it. 

[rallydave]

17 minutes ago, HappyFeet13 said:

I have a new angle I'm trying to try to get a $47,000 refund.  I booked via American Express travel, and paid them...not Seabourn or Qantas directly.  Seabourn and Qantas do not owe me a refund...they owe it to AmEx.  Seabourn and Qantas will not deal with me directly, since I did not book the trip. They require me to go through AmEx. I have written AmEx and to told them that American Express Travel charged me for air and cruise, and they did not deliver because the cruise and air was cancelled. AmEx, therefore, owes me my money back, right now.  If they have a problem getting THEIR money back from Seabourn and Qantas, that is THEIR problem, not mine. I paid THEM, and they owe me. I believe that this approach will work. If you use a TA, you might try the same approach. I'll let you know what happens with AmEx. 

Since you are in the US, surprised at your post.  Have been cruising for many years and always us a TA and always have had my TA provide the credit card number to the cruise line who is the one who bills my credit card.  Did several years ago book a hotel thru Amex Travel and if my memory is correct, my credit card was charged by the hotel in that case as well.  In other words Amex Travel gave your credit card number to Seabourn and Quantas much as you would if you paid direct so most likely you did NOT pay Amex Travel so they don't owe you until Seabourn and Quantas credit your account thru Amex Travel.

 

If you've already looked at your bill and seen the charges were to Amex you might have a chance but, pretty sure if you look at your statement you will see that Seabourn and Quantas show up as who charged your credit card and Amex will reject your dispute.  Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings but, that is the proper way to be billed as over the years many of us who at times used small TA's did not want to be stuck with the TA going out of business or not paying the cruisee line and thus losing the money since in those days we didn't worry about the safety of the cruise line.

 

Please let us know what you find and how Amex reacts if in fact it was Amex who charged your card.

Edited April 17, 2020 by rallydave

[westmount]

Good luck HappyFeet, but i gather the airlines and cruise lines have a direct payment issue going, and a contract that doesn't allow them to credit your account without the blessing of the carrier. With me, Expedia instantly told me the issue is with United and not them, and I'm guessing that unless you can show "FRAUD" and make a police report ( might be needed) they will not take up your case for a refund. Is it a fraud that they took your money and canceled the cruise and have not refunded your money, that will be a question of time. From what I understand, they have not refused to refund you, they simply have not done i yet. there probably is not a case unless they refuse to refund passengers, something that has not happened. Maybe the credit card companies will allow you to hold the payment for one month, but probably not more than that, but let us know how it goes.

[HappyFeet13]

 There are two variations of a potential claim:

 

1. Had I used my AmEx card to pay Seabourn and/or Qantas, that might offer me some protection, as AmEx is usually very good about reversing charges. For example, if I bought something on Amazon, using my AmEx card, and did not receive it, all I need to do is tell AmEx and they immediately credit my account. I think most credit cards do that. So, I'm suggesting that asking for a refund from the credit card company may be an approach that you might find worth pursuing. Let THEM deal with it.

 

2. My case is slightly different. I did not only use my AmEx card to book this trip, but I actually paid Amex Travel for it. i.e. My AmEx card was used to pay AmEx itself. So, I have no claim against Seabourn or Qantas, my claim is against AmEx. If they paid Seabourn and Qantas, and can't get their money back, that is THEIR problem, not mine. (Hope that works!)

 

[rallydave]

5 minutes ago, HappyFeet13 said:

2. My case is slightly different. I did not only use my AmEx card to book this trip, but I actually paid Amex Travel for it. i.e. My AmEx card was used to pay AmEx itself. So, I have no claim against Seabourn or Qantas, my claim is against AmEx. If they paid Seabourn and Qantas, and can't get their money back, that is THEIR problem, not mine. (Hope that works!)

But who is named on your Amex Statement as who was paid for your Air and Cruise.  That makes all the difference in the world to your claim.  We all give our credit card to our TA, Amex, Expedia, etc.  It is who actually put the charge on your card/statement that drive who has to refund.  I've had a card with Amex over 50 years and never seen a charge from Amex itself for travel.

[HappyFeet13]

Good get. I will look at old statements. 

[Rambo_Trout]

Here in England, although I gave my CC details to my TA, the payment was made to Seabourn.

 

I don't know what access USA & Canada have to information, but here, we can see statutory filing information from Carnival. If you want to follow the link, you will see that 9 legal charges were made against Ships and Trade Marks for loan security.

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04039524/filing-history

 

On page 8 of their last Accounts, it states that Seabourn account for 1% of Carnival's Passengers. Maybe that is why we aren't getting any money.

 

BTW It is Day 49 of our waiting for a refund, which was promised 'within 14 working days' lol

Edited April 17, 2020 by Rambo_Trout
More Information

[marazul]

13 hours ago, marazul said:

Does anyone know for a fact whether any of these other lines are more responsive/quicker to refund than Seabourn?  And I don't mean just cheerful, general purpose update emails. 

 

Thanks all for your updates on Seabourn and other lines.  Keep them coming.  

 

It does seem we are all "on the same boat."  

[cruisr]

I have not received a refund from Celebrity, Oceania or Crystal yet.

[Paulchili]

4 hours ago, dalliowner said:

I wonder if any cruise line has paid anybody a refund.

Here are some excerpts from Oceania from people that did get paid:

 

We were booked on the Nautica April 13 Tokyo to Singapore. We booked a European cruise. Our money from our cancelled cruise was applied as well as the fcc. The cruise was cancelled at 5 pm last Wednesday and our account was straightened out today. Considering the number of cancellations I think the time was very good. Our fcc of 25% seems to be on what we paid. Let’s put it this way, it’s fairly close. I didn’t figure it out exactly. Our refund from the cruise was exactly what we paid.

 

Yesterday, I got our 50% refund posted to my credit card for the Nautica cruise we're on right now. FWIW, it was two different individual credits totaling 50% of our original invoice cruise fare amount (no deduction of port taxes, et al.).

With all the itinerary changes we've experienced, we also have excursion adjustments (some refunded, replaced, added), which I expect we'll see on our final statement (the evening of March 3).

 

For our recently completed 30 day Nautica cruise, which had several stops after Sri Lanka changed, we received a 50% refund + a 25% FCC and air change fees up to $300/person for DIYers. For our upcoming Eastern Asia Insignia two segments, we're getting 100% refund + a 25% FCC air change fees up to $300/person for DIYers.

 

Just received my down payment and shore excursions back from O on my Amex card.  As noted everything is back to your original method of payment.   Chase is slower than most...

Our refunds from the WC -- segments 8,9 Singapore to SFO has posted to our Chase credit card.  FCC is also in the account too and used.  Essentially a Free cruise.  As noted previously our shore excursions were also returned on AMEX,

 

Oceania stepped up as well with 100% refund of cruise fare, air (booked through them), transfers, excursions and post cruise hotel. They posted the credit back to my credit card - we are still missing ~$435 though and have an inquiry into them. Also threw in a 25% FCC for any cruise leaving in 2020.

 

Requested a refund on Monday and was posted to my credit card on Thursday.  Great service.

 

 

We finally received our refund, although it arrived in 'pieces' over several days: first a small amount representing our initial deposit, then a smaller amount for a deposit transferred from a cancelled cruise, then yesterday, at last, refund of the remaining total cruise payment.

 

My deposit came through in 3 business days and remainder in about 6. Bank said there is a mandatory hold based on value and in some cases they have to verify transaction prior to posting. You can call the credit card number and they can tell you when it will post. 

 

We cancelled our cruise March 20. Our deposit was credited to my card March 24. I was surprised it happened so quickly. 

 

i cancelled two cruises ....1 I received back on my cc the other not yet.....so I guess they are just going thru 1 voyage at a time.

 

We cancelled after the 120 day mark and received our refund in two weeks, minus the $250 pp administration fee which is a Future Cruise Credit if O is still operational and if we cruise with O in the next two years.  We will see

 

I'm jumping in here. . . we were booked on the French Polynesia sailing of the Regatta that was cancelled on the evening of March 12th when we were en route to Tahiti.  I did receive my refund today from Oceania, and was surprised it came so quickly after the frequent 90 day warning.  The two excursions I had booked were also refunded.

 

Oceania cancelled my June 11, Tokyo - San Francisco  cruise around March 1, and issued credit back to my CC.

I  had used points and AA put the points back in my account with no charge. 

 

Not everyone has received their refunds yet but I think this gives you some idea of what Oceania is doing (I gave up after page 7 of 11).

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Paulchili

[SLSD]

13 hours ago, MightyQuinn said:

 

On March 4, we cancelled Open Deposit Bookings with Crystal as well as Future Cruise Deposits with Seabourn.  These are not related to the rolling covid cancellations and should be processed as regular refunds.  But 6 weeks later, we still wait.  Taking bets on when we actually see the money from either cruise line.

We are among the fortunate Seabourners who only have $1,000 at stake in the form of a future cruise deposit for a cruise we have not booked.  I still maintain that this is a cash flow issue.  I would be very surprised if anyone received a refund anytime soon.  (My husband, the insolvency lawyer, just said, "They will get their money, but it will be two or three years from now.)

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by SLSD

[MightyQuinn]

2 hours ago, SLSD said:

We are among the fortunate Seabourners who only have $1,000 at stake in the form of a future cruise deposit for a cruise we have not booked.  I still maintain that this is a cash flow issue.

 

SLSD, I remember you were considering an Adriatic cruise for next May or Sept.  Good thing you didn't decide earlier or you'd be caught in this refund saga.  We have another Seabourn cruise booked for next Feb/Mar and we plan to keep it until right before we go into penalty.  At that point, we'll likely cancel and then wait in line to have our deposit refunded. We also used FCDs on that booking and we'll ask to have them returned to our account.  Like you, we're comfortable risking $1000 for a 5% future discount.  We'll have 3 years left to use those FCDs and hope SB will be thriving by then.

[SLSD]

11 minutes ago, MightyQuinn said:

 

SLSD, I remember you were considering an Adriatic cruise for next May or Sept.  Good thing you didn't decide earlier or you'd be caught in this refund saga.  We have another Seabourn cruise booked for next Feb/Mar and we plan to keep it until right before we go into penalty.  At that point, we'll likely cancel and then wait in line to have our deposit refunded. We also used FCDs on that booking and we'll ask to have them returned to our account.  Like you, we're comfortable risking $1000 for a 5% future discount.  We'll have 3 years left to use those FCDs and hope SB will be thriving by then.

Yes, we had considered an Adriatic cruise, but finally had decided on a Copenhagen to London itinerary  (August 29th) and possibly continuing to Lisbon  on a back to back to enjoy ourselves even more.  For some reason, I did not book the cruise.  I usually book our next cruise within a couple of weeks upon returning from the previous cruise.  My husband kept asking why I had not booked and was becoming a bit annoyed with me for not booking.  I remember telling him that "something" was keeping me from booking  and I did not know what it was.  Now I know.  

Edited April 17, 2020 by SLSD

[HappyFeet13]

Just heard from AmEx travel. They told me "tough luck", I have to wait for Seabourn travel to credit my $47,000 back for cruise and air (Seabourn booked Qantas for me via Seabourn Air). So...my theory didn't work. I paid Seabourn the final balance due for 4-29 cruise, and for airfare,  last December, for a flight in April.  I doubt that Seabourn gave the money to Qantas back then. I still think that if Seabourn stiffs me, I have a claim against AmEx. We'll see. 

[SLSD]

27 minutes ago, HappyFeet13 said:

Just heard from AmEx travel. They told me "tough luck", I have to wait for Seabourn travel to credit my $47,000 back for cruise and air (Seabourn booked Qantas for me via Seabourn Air). So...my theory didn't work. I paid Seabourn the final balance due for 4-29 cruise, and for airfare,  last December, for a flight in April.  I doubt that Seabourn gave the money to Qantas back then. I still think that if Seabourn stiffs me, I have a claim against AmEx. We'll see. 

I just read Mr. SLSD your post and he said that is is almost always what AmEx says---he's dealt with them in some cases.  But, make your claim if necessary.  We'll all be rooting for you.  

[ab21au]

1 hour ago, HappyFeet13 said:

Just heard from AmEx travel. They told me "tough luck", I have to wait for Seabourn travel to credit my $47,000 back for cruise and air (Seabourn booked Qantas for me via Seabourn Air). So...my theory didn't work. I paid Seabourn the final balance due for 4-29 cruise, and for airfare,  last December, for a flight in April.  I doubt that Seabourn gave the money to Qantas back then. I still think that if Seabourn stiffs me, I have a claim against AmEx. We'll see. 

I booked our BC airfares to Hong Kong through AMEX Travel and I had to cancel through them (not Qantas).  They refunded me within a few days, the cc statement says Amex Travel, not Qantas. Amex waived their cancellation fee of $55 each but not the $450 yearly credit we had used against the payment. Qantas had a $400 each (I think) cancellation fee which was refunded within 6 weeks by SB. So in all, we lost the $450 yearly Amex credit less the $110. I was happy with that outcome for a $6500 purchase. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by ab21au

[rallydave]

1 hour ago, HappyFeet13 said:

Just heard from AmEx travel. They told me "tough luck", I have to wait for Seabourn travel to credit my $47,000 back for cruise and air (Seabourn booked Qantas for me via Seabourn Air). So...my theory didn't work. I paid Seabourn the final balance due for 4-29 cruise, and for airfare,  last December, for a flight in April.  I doubt that Seabourn gave the money to Qantas back then. I still think that if Seabourn stiffs me, I have a claim against AmEx. We'll see. 

You still didn't say what the charge on your Amex Card said, Amex or Seabourn??  Am assuming Seabourn so pretty sure any claim against Amex Travel will fail.

[HappyFeet13]

Although I booked with AMEX Platinum Travel, including cruise and air, the charge on my cc statement of $47,299 on Dec 31, says Seabourn. 

[zimflyer]

4 hours ago, SLSD said:

Yes, we had considered an Adriatic cruise, but finally had decided on a Copenhagen to London itinerary  (August 29th) and possibly continuing to Lisbon  on a back to back to enjoy ourselves even more.  For some reason, I did not book the cruise.  I usually book our next cruise within a couple of weeks upon returning from the previous cruise.  My husband kept asking why I had not booked and was becoming a bit annoyed with me for not booking.  I remember telling him that "something" was keeping me from booking  and I did not know what it was.  Now I know.  

It occurs to me that cruise lines are doing themselves a lot of damage.

 

By not refunding promptly, we are less likely to consider future bookings (as all FCC guarantees are contingent on the future financial stability of the company)...

 

A robust feeling of confidence in the brand is key right now... otherwise future sales will falter...?