PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Globehoppers said:

Its not the ship's doctor.  The  Italian government ordered the quarantine.

you missed the point. It was not about the quarantine. It is about that until there is a test that can be run and get results locally a ships doctor has no way to determine if a passengers illness is Corona, or any number of other URIs that show up on a cruise ship. So do they put every passenger in lockdown if they start coughing and running a fever or any of the other symptoms if any of the passengers have recently been in a affected area? Do ports stop letting ships call if there is any doubt and no onboarding test exists. Making ships wait until the tests can be sent to a lab for analysis?

 

Today, not an issue. If it takes hold outside of China, then it certainly might become one. 

[npcl]

10 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

It's not just the cruise lines taking action. Some ports are being closed to cruise ships as they do not have good enough medical facilities to cope with an outbreak within their local community if infected by a cruise ship passenger. Two New Caledonian ports, Lifou and Mare, have just announced they are closed to cruise ships. These are both very small, isolated communities. Some cruises on other cruise lines have been affected by this but, so far, not any Princess cruises.

Oh well, we are scheduled to stop there in April on a HAL cruise between Sydney and Honolulu.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, NFL Traveler said:

Fearmongering?  I don't believe it is fearmongering after the many reports of Chinese Nationals taking fever-reducing meds before boarding flights to take vacations abroad.  Rumor has it that cruise lines in South FL are refunding cruise fares to Chinese passengers; as far as I know this is a rumor.  The reality is as this virus spreads in China, and it will, what will cruise lines do?  Will they ban passengers from China?  As another poster said, cruise ships are petrie dishes.  

 

The bottom line: my wife and I will continue to cruise, but we will alter our behavior by washing/sanitizing our hands, keeping our hands away from our faces, not shaking hands, bringing our own sanitizing wipes to wipe down our cabin, daily...

Unfortunately there are some major differences between some of the previous breakouts like SARS and this one.

 

1. Incubation time.  SARS was 2-7 days with Corona is it 14 days.  Makes it much more likely for people to get outside of quarantine areas before symptoms develop. Also requires longer quarantine periods.

2. Rate of Spread. Corona is spreading faster.  Already more cases than the total 8098 cases in the Nov 2002 to July 2003 SARS outbreak.

3. Some reports of spread be individuals even before symptoms develop. That was not happening with SARS. Will be very interesting if this turns out to be true of not.  If true then much much harder to contain.

 

 

Some questions are 1. if there are many mild cases where a person shows some symptoms, but are mild enough that they do not go to the hospital. If so then, unlike SARS were if you got it it was major with its 10% fatality rate, there might be substantial under reporting and a faster spread with a lower mortality rate.  2. How long do the symptoms persist and when can an infected person stop being infectious?

 

I think that if this is going to be a major problem the next shoe to drop will be in Thailand or Vietnam (to a lesser degree Indonesia and Malasia).  They get large numbers of Chinese tourists (The Health Director in Thailand indicated that 22000 Chinese from Wuhan traveled to Thailand prior to China locking down travel).  Relatively poor infrastructure for blocking spread. If nothing happens there in the next 2-3 weeks then I would expect this to be fairly well contained.

 

Just read story of first confirmed case of person to person transmission in Thailand.  Unfortunately it was to a Taxi driver, apparently infected by a sick Chinese tourist.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

6 hours ago, Griller said:

• We are due to board tomorrow and just received an email from Princess as follows - at last
• We feel happier now there should be no pax on board from mainland China. It helps considerably.

CORONAVIRUS TRAVEL ADVISORY

We are closely monitoring the Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) situation and wish to reassure you that the risk to our guests and crew is low and our medical experts are coordinating closely with global health authorities.

As a precautionary measure, any guest who has traveled from or through mainland China within 14 days of the beginning of this cruise will be denied boarding. This does not apply to Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan. If this applies to you or your client, please contact us at 1-800-774-6237 (North America) or your country s office to provide proof of such travel and we will process a full refund of all amounts paid to Princess Cruises for this voyage.

In addition, all guests will be subject to pre-boarding health reporting and screening at cruise check-in, in addition to other precautions being taken. The above is subject to change based on the interests of health and safety of our guests and crew and any other requirements imposed by local authorities.

While a good move by Princess, it is dependent upon the passengers self reporting.  How many are likely to just go that they feel fine and  want to go on the cruise so they just happen to forget that they were just in China.

[Ombud]

Looking it up for fatality rates:

2% fatality rate vs SARS 9.6% / MERS 34.4% / flu 795-1781 per day. Bad but IMHO it's the unexpected emergence not the death rate that caught everyone off guard. I'm with MissP22 (I cannot believe we agree on something!! Usually we're on opposing sides 🤫) looking for a better hotel & flight rate for my upcoming Asia cruise

[hllwdcruiser]

Princess, or any cruise line or airline or really any public transportation can only do so much.

 

My daughter and her friend came back about 2 weeks ago from a 3 week independent land tour of SE Asia. She was in Cambodia, Phuket, Singapore, Myanmar and Vietnam. Everywhere she went there were masses of Chinese tourists. The outbreak was reported here about 2 days before her return and already somebody in Singapore was hospitalized. 

 

Hypothetically, let's say she was exposed and incubating the virus on her return and let's say I was going on a cruise that same week. After hugging her and spending several days with her, I could now be incubating the virus as well. When I boarded the cruise would I then be asked if I had any exposure to anyone who had been to SE Asia in the past week? I don't think so.

 

We can all live in a bubble of fear and never go out. Heck, I caught Spinal Meningitis when I was in Boston in my undergraduate days. The Doctors there said I probably caught it on the "T" since no-one I knew had it in my dorm or classes. 

 

The Zika scare was so bad here in SE Florida - it was literally on the news every day. The media made it seem as if every pregnant woman was risking her unborn child to this mosquito borne illness. Fast forward to now - in the past 2 years we've been blessed with 4 new grand babies. Not once was Zika mentioned by the medical staff to the expectant mothers.

 

I'm not trying to make light of the Coronavirus. It seems as if it is fast spreading and very serious. But the CDC keeps repeating that we are okay here in the US and I believe it is the same for Europe. If I were going on a cruise to Asia I may rethink it, but it appears that Princess and the affected countries are taking all the necessary precautions.

 

Until I am told otherwise by a governing official, I choose to live outside of a bubble.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by hllwdcruiser

[RMMariner]

Funny how the cruise ship getting quarantined had so much attention in the news. The all clear that happened the same day was page 12 news.

 

Canada's first coronavirus patient was just released from the hospital. His wife is also doing well. The initial detection of a Canadian patient was the front of my Google feed. The article on his release was only found after I scrolled down several pages.

 

Take the time to learn the whole story. Don't let sensationalistic headlines panic you.

[Steelers0854]

Well this is about to make things infinitely more complicated. 
 

im not sure there are many cruises that go from China to the US but if there were this is going to be a nightmare. 

re: travel ban 

 

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-01-31-20-intl-hnk/h_ec834f6633cf88e481dd1f1edf48088d

Edited January 31, 2020 by Steelers0854

[npcl]

3 hours ago, hllwdcruiser said:

Princess, or any cruise line or airline or really any public transportation can only do so much.

 

My daughter and her friend came back about 2 weeks ago from a 3 week independent land tour of SE Asia. She was in Cambodia, Phuket, Singapore, Myanmar and Vietnam. Everywhere she went there were masses of Chinese tourists. The outbreak was reported here about 2 days before her return and already somebody in Singapore was hospitalized. 

 

Hypothetically, let's say she was exposed and incubating the virus on her return and let's say I was going on a cruise that same week. After hugging her and spending several days with her, I could now be incubating the virus as well. When I boarded the cruise would I then be asked if I had any exposure to anyone who had been to SE Asia in the past week? I don't think so.

 

We can all live in a bubble of fear and never go out. Heck, I caught Spinal Meningitis when I was in Boston in my undergraduate days. The Doctors there said I probably caught it on the "T" since no-one I knew had it in my dorm or classes. 

 

The Zika scare was so bad here in SE Florida - it was literally on the news every day. The media made it seem as if every pregnant woman was risking her unborn child to this mosquito borne illness. Fast forward to now - in the past 2 years we've been blessed with 4 new grand babies. Not once was Zika mentioned by the medical staff to the expectant mothers.

 

I'm not trying to make light of the Coronavirus. It seems as if it is fast spreading and very serious. But the CDC keeps repeating that we are okay here in the US and I believe it is the same for Europe. If I were going on a cruise to Asia I may rethink it, but it appears that Princess and the affected countries are taking all the necessary precautions.

 

Until I am told otherwise by a governing official, I choose to live outside of a bubble.

 

 

Of course the US government just declared a health emergency and initiated a health related travel restrictions with quarantines, something that has not been done in 50 years.  That certainly  indicates a degree of concern that was not present with SARS, MERS and Zika outbreaks. 

[Ombud]

Tertiary transmission?

Edited February 1, 2020 by Ombud

[TrixieBel]

11 hours ago, Globehoppers said:

Yes, perspective.

 

Coronavirus is spreading significantly faster than SARS, its death rate for the same initial period if higher, and its infection rate in significantly higher.  This is not something to take lightly.  It is killing young healthy people in addition to those with low immune systems.  

 

Checked yesterday and surgical respiratory masks in the US are extremely scarce.  Plus, they are made in China...!

It will be a while until the REAL prevalence/incidence and % death rate is known. There are problems because China is not recording ALL people that have/had the virus because they can only record those that present for care; and people don’t present for care unless they are pretty sick. People with a milder version may just stay home and never be counted on the stats. 
 

This means that the % death rate may be significantly over-stated. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Expat Cruise]

The cruise line association  issued the following:   "Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA)  pledged that its members will deny boarding to anyone who has traveled through mainland China in the past two weeks, in addition to other precautions."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/01/31/cruise-ships-deny-boarding-anyone-who-has-been-china-recently/4622855002/

 

[RMMariner]

2 hours ago, npcl said:

Of course the US government just declared a health emergency and initiated a health related travel restrictions with quarantines, something that has not been done in 50 years.  That certainly  indicates a degree of concern that was not present with SARS, MERS and Zika outbreaks. 

 

The present coronavirus death rate is nowhere near that of MERS and SARS. Also, much has been learned about how to deal with these situations. The last global flu was marked by a delay in government action. This time governments are being far more proactive. This announcement is a prudent and necessary effort to deal with the spread of this disease, but it is not an indicator that this disease is worse than previous outbreaks.

Also, contrary to what a previous poster stated, Coronavirus is predominately killing older men with preexisting health conditions. H1N1 was impacting on younger people. So far this disease has not followed that pattern.

 

How many people have died of this disease outside of China? I believe it is zero at the present time. There are four people so far diagnosed in Canada. One has been released, and his wife tested positive, but she is asymptomatic. The patient in Vancouver (my home town) is recovering well apparently. The fourth patient barely exhibited symptoms and has been identified as weakly positive. All four had been to Wuhan. 

 

Many cruisers are older people, and I think it would be wise to consider your travel options with regard to this disease, but don't let the circus that is social media be your source of information. 

 

 

[Kenswing]

7 minutes ago, RMMariner said:

 

The present coronavirus death rate is nowhere near that of MERS and SARS. Also, much has been learned about how to deal with these situations. The last global flu was marked by a delay in government action. This time governments are being far more proactive. This announcement is a prudent and necessary effort to deal with the spread of this disease, but it is not an indicator that this disease is worse than previous outbreaks.

Also, contrary to what a previous poster stated, Coronavirus is predominately killing older men with preexisting health conditions. H1N1 was impacting on younger people. So far this disease has not followed that pattern.

 

How many people have died of this disease outside of China? I believe it is zero at the present time. There are four people so far diagnosed in Canada. One has been released, and his wife tested positive, but she is asymptomatic. The patient in Vancouver (my home town) is recovering well apparently. The fourth patient barely exhibited symptoms and has been identified as weakly positive. All four had been to Wuhan. 

 

Many cruisers are older people, and I think it would be wise to consider your travel options with regard to this disease, but don't let the circus that is social media be your source of information. 

 

 

As he posts on social media trying to be our source of information.. 🤣

[RMMariner]

19 minutes ago, Kenswing said:

As he posts on social media trying to be our source of information.. 🤣

 

Well played Sir.

 

Ignore all other social media posts but mine.😀 Or better yet, go research it yourself.

[Cuedon]

1 hour ago, Expat Cruise said:

The cruise line association  issued the following:   "Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA)  pledged that its members will deny boarding to anyone who has traveled through mainland China in the past two weeks, in addition to other precautions."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/01/31/cruise-ships-deny-boarding-anyone-who-has-been-china-recently/4622855002/

 

However, there's a rather interesting line tucked into the middle of that article: "The screening protocols that CLIA is using allow for case-by-case decisions as to whether a crew member or guest will be allowed or denied to board."

 

So for this fuss utilizing firm language, it still comes down to the discretion of whatever staff is at hand. That, or it's the CLIA's attempt to shift responsibility to the cruselines for refusing ticketed passengers... "Don't blame us, we didn't say boarding had to be denied."

[npcl]

29 minutes ago, RMMariner said:

 

The present coronavirus death rate is nowhere near that of MERS and SARS. Also, much has been learned about how to deal with these situations. The last global flu was marked by a delay in government action. This time governments are being far more proactive. This announcement is a prudent and necessary effort to deal with the spread of this disease, but it is not an indicator that this disease is worse than previous outbreaks.

Also, contrary to what a previous poster stated, Coronavirus is predominately killing older men with preexisting health conditions. H1N1 was impacting on younger people. So far this disease has not followed that pattern.

 

How many people have died of this disease outside of China? I believe it is zero at the present time. There are four people so far diagnosed in Canada. One has been released, and his wife tested positive, but she is asymptomatic. The patient in Vancouver (my home town) is recovering well apparently. The fourth patient barely exhibited symptoms and has been identified as weakly positive. All four had been to Wuhan. 

 

Many cruisers are older people, and I think it would be wise to consider your travel options with regard to this disease, but don't let the circus that is social media be your source of information. 

 

 

it is zero outside of china because as of yet it has not effectively spread outside of China. But there are certainly some troubling concerns with relatively long incubation time and the ability to infect without displaying symptoms. both of which make for harder containment than with SARS and MERS. Clearly there are enough unknowns that the US has gone to use a tool that it has not used in 50 years and the last time was for small pox.

 Yes the fatality rate is much lower then SARS and MERS, but appears to be higher then the flu, without any historic immunity in the population. The seriousness of the MERS and SARS cases coupled with the 2 to 7 day incubation time was actual a good thing when it came to limiting spread.

 

 

The next 4 weeks will be very telling. Look at the charts on spread in China. We are basically two weeks in on Jan 19 there were 278 cases in China,  11 days later  11.2 thousand and spread throughout most of mainland China.  If we can get through the next 4 week with it still contained to China then containment is working. If you see cases increasing in other Asian countries then the problem will be much greater.

 

There are only so many beds and so much equipment for palliative care. So the biggest issue with an outbreak like this is that if it spreads it quickly overcomes medical capacity and then you have patients that do not get the appropriate care and fatality rate goes up.

 

Even it it ends up being 10% of current reports .2 instead of 2%. That is magnitudes higher than for the flu. The ironic thing is if it is being under reported and mortality rate drops, than the transmission rate goes up accordingly.

 

In any case those with impaired immune systems should certainly keep informed and maybe be a bit cautious about travel plans until there is more clarity about the ability to control the spread.

[CZEE]

14 hours ago, chamima said:

 

 

14 hours ago, chamima said:

 

Everyone on most cruises needs a passport to board.

A check of your passport will tell where you've been.

 

Passports only include biometric data.  they do not include travel.  Does the TSA release this info to cruise lines?  Do you have a citation.  Not everyone gets a stamp in the passport.  

[RMMariner]

42 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

In any case those with impaired immune systems should certainly keep informed and maybe be a bit cautious about travel plans until there is more clarity about the ability to control the spread.

 

We are in complete agreement on this point.

[caribill]

The disturbing thing about the Costa ship being quarantined is that this was a reaction to one person out of 7000 showing some symptoms that turned out to be normal flu.

 

In winter, any group of  just several hundred people is likely to have someone with flu symptoms.

 

Will this be the start of a trend that if one person on any cruise ship or even on an airplane coughs or shows some other common symptoms that can be from dozens of diseases will the ship or aircraft then be quarantined?

[dog]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

The disturbing thing about the Costa ship being quarantined is that this was a reaction to one person out of 7000 showing some symptoms that turned out to be normal flu.

 

In winter, any group of  just several hundred people is likely to have someone with flu symptoms.

 

Will this be the start of a trend that if one person on any cruise ship or even on an airplane coughs or shows some other common symptoms that can be from dozens of diseases will the ship or aircraft then be quarantined?

Where was that one person from? China?

[Alcairns]

6 hours ago, CZEE said:

 

Passports only include biometric data.  they do not include travel.  Does the TSA release this info to cruise lines?  Do you have a citation.  Not everyone gets a stamp in the passport.  

To travel to China you need a visa which is  a page stuck into you passport. This would clearly indicate when you have visited the country. 

[Cuedon]

7 minutes ago, Alcairns said:

To travel to China you need a visa which is  a page stuck into you passport. This would clearly indicate when you have visited the country. 

Not for all countries, and not for the US if you're just doing a technical stop or a connecting flight. You still get a dated stamp, but no visa. And that's assuming you're using the same passport. 

[vjmatty]

9 hours ago, RMMariner said:

Or better yet, go research it yourself.

 

Exactly.....research it yourself, then make a decision. If you're worried that Princess isn't taking enough precautions or you are not satisfied with the measures being taken, don't sail with them.  No one is forcing you to do so.

[davidoff2020]

Getting back to the original question: How is Princess Cruises actually reacting due to Corona Virus?

 

Some of you here may find this interesting:

 

I was booked on that cruise for a nice junior balcony suite  since April 2019. This should have been the trip of my lifetime (celebrating my 60th birthday on ship and other things planned) and so I have been booking also nice Qatar Airways business class flights from Germany to Singapore and back from Shanghai to Germany.

 

Following the news from China over last week I got more and more uncomfortable with the whole thing.

 

In fact as a lot of you here stated its not the fear of getting the virus (we have far, far more cases of deaths due to influenza each year here in Germany and still no one wears a sinlge mask on the street). Its the fear of what may happen around the whole trip, ie ports getting cancelled, authorities denying access to ships, passengers held on the ship like in Rome, your flight back from China may be cancelled etc etc. Furthermore all of those cruises in South East Asia have lots of Asian / Chinese guests on board. Can you imagine enjoying your daily cocktail on the bar surrounded by travellers wearing those masks??? Very relaxing atmosphere, hmm?

 

Over last weekend I came to the conclusion that I did not want to pay more than 5500€ for this unsecure experience and did cancel the cruise this Monday. It was exactly day 80 before 16th of April so I could get away just for the 75€ handling fee.

 

Just 2 days later Princess announced a complete re-routing, they swapped some ports and cancelled the final port Shanghai and now the cruise ends in Yokohama, even in anther country, Japan. And they are doing this 10 weeks in advance..

 

Around 3000 passengers or at least those who have flight arrangemants of their own, will have to re-arrange new flights for getting home. Maybe most of them will have to pay a lot of extra money because of this. Besides a lot of other trouble usually coming along with such a serious change of itinerary.

 

What fascinates me the most, is that they did announce that serious change exactly 2 days after the cancellation deadline 😉

 

My personal conclusion: I was right in every aspect of my decision to finally cancel this cruise.

 

PS: The ship was almost sold out until Monday..

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by davidoff2020