RCL Stock

[topnole]

2 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

If 24% is the low tax bracket, then yes I am.

0% is the lowest tax bracket and that is what about 50% of Americans pay.  

[grandgeezer]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:47 AM, nelblu said:

The individual does not appreciate the value of a $.😉

When you have so much of it, you lose perspective.

[topnole]

On 2/15/2023 at 7:48 AM, DaKahuna said:

 

 I understand from a stockholder point of view but a fellow named Peter Lynch one wrote something along the lines of investing in what you know and what you use so that's what I tend to do with regard to individual stocks. 

 

 I do not see Carnival as a good buy at this point.  I would have been wise to buy more Royal Caribbean than I did and/or added Carnival last summer but alas I did not.  My loss.  Not the first time.  I had a choice of buying Microsoft when Microsoft first released Windows 3.1.  I was fully convinced that OS/2 WARP was a superior operating system to Windows so I did not buy Microsoft.  My loss - in a big way!

 

Peter Lynch used fundamental analysis and described great examples

of buying what you know (sort of).  For example, his wife brought home panty hose packaged in an egg and he inquired about the unusual looking product/package as she boasted about it and how all of her friends loved the product.  As I recall it was L’eggs.   So after careful analysis he bought the corporate parent stock which I think was Hanes and adding great returns for the portfolios he managed.  Clearly this wasn’t a product he knew.  He took the good word of someone else (his wife) and used that knowledge.  Hence I said sort of..
 

But by fundamentals I’m not sure if Peter Lynch would buy Royal.  Many of the loyalists complain about the product (food getting worse, service levels going down, etc.).  The financials look horrible and the product environment still involves a lot of risk (particularly because the companies are so highly leveraged now).  The companies would struggle (or more like couldn’t) to absorb another significant external shock to the industry.  
 

For me, I’m actually a buyer of the product, but not the stock.  I’m not a trader.  I’m a buy and hold investor so I have zero interest in trying to time something like this in the short run.  I don’t look down on anyone that does, but long term investing wins out on average and I’m educated enough to know that no one is smarter than the market (even if they win on average and think they are).   To me there are much better places to invest and while the OBC is a good perk if you cruise a lot, it isn’t worth it for those cruising a couple times a year.  There are simply much safer investments with much better expected ROI.  
 

 

[grandgeezer]

On 3/21/2023 at 5:29 PM, Seville2Cabo said:

Pretty sure I don't need your investing advice.  Should I sell my Apple stock I bought in 2004 or Microsoft in 2001?  I understand no profit until I sell, but I think RC will come back and be a good investment from today.  I sell stocks I think will not do well going forward.  Seems you made a mistake selling the utility stock.  BTW - Since I really don't need any invested money, ( I guess my kids should decide what I should sell) all dividend are reinvested.  

Where in my post did I give any investing advise? I just stated som facts and an example of what I did with the utility stock. You can do whatever you want with your money, I couldn’t care less.

If you had read the post correctly, you would have seen that I only sold enough to recover my initial investment, what I have left generates $300 a year in dividends. How can you say it was a mistake to sell the utility stock? You have no idea what I bought with the proceeds. There are three reasons I sell a stock, 1) I feel it has about to hit it’s peak based on the info available, 2) I feel there’s a better opportunity available, and 3) I need the money for something else (this hasn’t happened in over 30 years). 

 

 

[DaKahuna]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:21 AM, mac66 said:

 

A month ago it was $74/share. Debated selling it and decide not to but then figured out that I could have made $4100 on the deal. That's 41 cruises it would take to recoup @ $100 a cruise. Even today @ $63/share that's 30 cruises it would take to recoup. So the stock OBC is cool but not that much of a deal strategically.

 

 

 That depends on how many days your cruise is.  We are getting $250 OBC for our upcoming 15 day cruise.  We have held the stock long enough and taken enough cruises that it's very close to having paid for what we bought it.  Not to mention, as other have, the gain in stock price of over average purchase price (we bought multiple times as the price dipped). 

 

[nelblu]

3 hours ago, Biker19 said:

In connection with Ms. Lutoff-Perlo’s transition, she will be entitled to receive severance payments 

That's some deal.  Can someone enlighten me on this.  There was a big scandal when a principal at one of the schools in my County was retiring and was to receive a $750k severance.  All hell broke loose.

[Ocean Boy]

16 minutes ago, nelblu said:

That's some deal.  Can someone enlighten me on this.  There was a big scandal when a principal at one of the schools in my County was retiring and was to receive a $750k severance.  All hell broke loose.

I always thought severance was put in place in case a contract was terminated early. I didn't know it could be applied to retirement.

[nelblu]

5 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I always thought severance was put in place in case a contract was terminated early. I didn't know it could be applied to retirement.

My question is that she is not being terminated but assigned to a different executive position within the Royal group.  If anything, the estimated liability should be transferred from Celebrity to Royal books and paid when and if terminated.

 

That is why I vote yes at proxy time on having some voice on any executive compensation desicions.

Edited April 7, 2023 by nelblu

[topnole]

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

My question is that she is not being terminated but assigned to a different executive position within the Royal group.  If anything, the estimated liability should be transferred from Celebrity to Royal books and paid when and if terminated.

 

That is why I vote yes at proxy time on having some voice on any executive compensation desicions.

One would assume she was forced

out of her current position prematurely (per her contract).  So this would seem like a negotiated outcome with Royal agreeing to pay whatever severance she would’ve had if they just terminated her straight up.  Why they did this is hard to guess from the outside.  

[John&LaLa]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:48 PM, grandgeezer said:

A little tip, you haven’t realized one penny on your RCL stock, it’s all on paper until you sell it. I sold enough of my utility stock to get the original amount invested back in my pocket, about $7,000. The stock left over is generating $300 per year in dividends.

Tax free OBC an incentive, kidding right? How much tax would you pay on $100? 

We don’t price shop anything, if we need it we buy it, if we see value in it we buy it. Cruising no longer meets either one of those criteria so OBC is a nonissue. I mentioned beer as it’s the only thing we would buy on the ship. $100 OBC buys we about 9 beers, including tip. At home, when it’s on sale, like for St. Patricks Day I get 160+ including tax. That’s a value point.

 

 

I had $100 stockholder OBC on our March trip

 

Drank 50+ free beers and cocktails

 

Had a great time with 50+ new friends

 

Priceless

[Baron Barracuda]

Thanks to Biker19 for posting the more complete story.  I read the press release yesterday but it omitted the compensation details and gave the appearance this  is simply a corporate re-shuffling.  

 

As boss of Celebrity LLP enjoyed a base salary of $820K + bonus.  This has now been cut to $360K and appears to be good for only one year.  Just speculating, but she was a Fain appointee and Liberty might want to replace her with one of his own people.  Also, might not count for much but in the many years I've been following the X board I've never seen so much complaining about food, service and other cutbacks. 

[grandgeezer]

5 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I had $100 stockholder OBC on our March trip

 

Drank 50+ free beers and cocktails

 

Had a great time with 50+ new friends

 

Priceless

You got 50+ free beers and cocktails using just your $100 shareholder OBC? That’s the way it reads. If so, no need for a drink package. Or is this the 50+ drinks talking?

[Wineaux007]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

You got 50+ free beers and cocktails using just your $100 shareholder OBC? That’s the way it reads. If so, no need for a drink package. Or is this the 50+ drinks talking?

Pinnacles get 6 free drinks a day x a 10 day cruise = 60 free drinks.  

[Biker19]

"

With Royal Caribbean Group's Laura Hodges Bethge to lead Celebrity Cruises as president, her shared services operations team will have new reporting lines.

As EVP shared services, Hodges Bethge currently oversees safety, security and environment; risk management, supply chain, port operations, workplace solutions and guest travel services.

 

Going forward, when she takes the Celebrity helm May 1, safety, security and environment will report to Jason Liberty, president/CEO, Royal Caribbean Group.

 

Guest travel services will report to Jim Wells, chief supply chain officer, and the supply chain and risk management groups will answer to CFO Naftali Holtz.

 

Port operations will report to Josh Carroll, VP destination development. And workplace solutions will be under Dana Ritzcovan, EVP and chief people and outreach officer."

 

New reporting lines for Royal Caribbean Group shared services (seatrade-cruise.com)

[Wolf 8]

Given how over-the-top, "Inclusive and accepting" Lisa Lutoff-Perlo has been, when she announced she was, "Transitioning" my first thought was she'd be back in 6 months as Leo Lutoff-Perlo.  Promoting Laura Hodges Bethge who's run the logistical side can only be an improvement.

[firefly333]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:07 PM, John&LaLa said:

 

I had $100 stockholder OBC on our March trip

 

Drank 50+ free beers and cocktails

 

Had a great time with 50+ new friends

 

Priceless

And like me you probably got that $100 obc x many cruises. For me let's say 13 cruises or more so lets say $1300. .. I'm probably down but the obc makes up for the stock up and downs. Hopefully someday it will turn a profit again. 

[grandgeezer]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

And like me you probably got that $100 obc x many cruises. For me let's say 13 cruises or more so lets say $1300. .. I'm probably down but the obc makes up for the stock up and downs. Hopefully someday it will turn a profit again. 

It all depends on what you paid. The high for the past year is $26 higher than the last price. If you bought 100 shares at the high, that’s minus $2600. If you bout at thee all time high in early 2020, of $133.47, do the math.

[yogimax]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

 I'm probably down but the obc makes up for the stock up and downs. Hopefully someday it will turn a profit again. 

Thank you.  For once, someone who is willing to admit they are losing money on a stock trade.  Most of the time it's boast and brag on this board.

[WeMissSeaView]

I bought 200 shares in March 2020.  On my next cruise later this month, I will have made more in stock OBC then the shares cost me.  There have been zero dividends, but I am happy with the stock.

[mac66]

37 minutes ago, WeMissSeaView said:

I bought 200 shares in March 2020.  On my next cruise later this month, I will have made more in stock OBC then the shares cost me.  There have been zero dividends, but I am happy with the stock.

The lowest stock price was $22/share in 2020. The highest was $133. Average is $66.  200 shares would have been between $4400 & $13200 minimum. To recoup that you would have had to have done  between 44 and 132 cruises between then and now.  Congratulations.

Edited April 10, 2023 by mac66

[Another_Critic]

6 minutes ago, mac66 said:

The lowest stock price was $22/share in 2020. 200 shares would have been $4400. To recoup that you would have had to have done 44 cruises between then and now.  Congratulations.

Or less with 14+ night cruises ($250 OBC).

[WeMissSeaView]

49 minutes ago, mac66 said:

The lowest stock price was $22/share in 2020. The highest was $133. Average is $66.  200 shares would have been between $4400 & $13200 minimum. To recoup that you would have had to have done  between 44 and 132 cruises between then and now.  Congratulations.

Stock hit bottom at 19 and I bought at 21.

[Wineaux007]

44 minutes ago, WeMissSeaView said:

Stock hit bottom at 19 and I bought at 21.

We bought at $16 back in 2008, and then it went down to $5.  Wife said let's buy more, but what does she know? 🤪

[Biker19]

"

Jason Liberty in his first year as president and CEO of Royal Caribbean Group received compensation valued at $10.76m.

 

This was down from the $13.03m in 2021 when he was CFO due to the lower value of his 2022 stock awards — $7m, versus $10.5m the year before.

In 2022, Liberty's salary rose to $1.2m, up from $950,000 when he was CFO, and he received a bonus of $2.34m, up from $1.37m. He also received 'other compensation' of $219,402 including the installation cost of a security system at his residence, an auto lease, the periodic use of a car and driver for commuting, and other benefits.

 

Michael Bayley

The company's second most highly compensated officer was Michael Bayley, president and CEO, Royal Caribbean International, with $7.76m, compared to $17.55m in 2021 when his stock awards were valued at $14.99m, way higher than the $5m in 2022. HIs salary was $1,046,849, a 5% raise from 2021.

 

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo, president and CEO, Celebrity Cruises, received compensation valued at $4.75m, down from $10.41m in 2021 when her stock awards were worth $8.25m. In 2022, Lutoff-Perlo's stock awards totaled $2.74m. Her salary was $858,416, 5% higher than in 2021.

 

Harri Kulovaara

Harri Kulovaara, EVP maritime, Royal Caribbean Group, received compensation valued at $3.61m, on par with 2021. His salary was $847,948, up 5%. Kulovaara is entitled to a bonus of $150,000 per ship delivered during the year so his bonus includes $300,000 for the two ships handed over in 2022.

 

Naftali Holtz

CFO Naftali Holtz joined the company's named executive officers for the first time in 2022 with total compensation valued at $2.81m. This includes a salary of $675,000.

 

Richard Fain

Royal Caribbean Group Chairman Richard Fain received total compensation valued at $300,006, down from the $15.81m in 2021 when he also served as CEO. Fain's 2022 compensation was solely related to his work as a company director: 100,000 in fees and a $200,006 stock award."

 

Jason Liberty's 2022 compensation valued at $10.76m (seatrade-cruise.com)

[Jimbo]

6 hours ago, Biker19 said:

"

Jason Liberty in his first year as president and CEO of Royal Caribbean Group received compensation valued at $10.76m.

 

This was down from the $13.03m in 2021 when he was CFO due to the lower value of his 2022 stock awards — $7m, versus $10.5m the year before.

In 2022, Liberty's salary rose to $1.2m, up from $950,000 when he was CFO, and he received a bonus of $2.34m, up from $1.37m. He also received 'other compensation' of $219,402 including the installation cost of a security system at his residence, an auto lease, the periodic use of a car and driver for commuting, and other benefits.

 

Michael Bayley

The company's second most highly compensated officer was Michael Bayley, president and CEO, Royal Caribbean International, with $7.76m, compared to $17.55m in 2021 when his stock awards were valued at $14.99m, way higher than the $5m in 2022. HIs salary was $1,046,849, a 5% raise from 2021.

 

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo, president and CEO, Celebrity Cruises, received compensation valued at $4.75m, down from $10.41m in 2021 when her stock awards were worth $8.25m. In 2022, Lutoff-Perlo's stock awards totaled $2.74m. Her salary was $858,416, 5% higher than in 2021.

 

Harri Kulovaara

Harri Kulovaara, EVP maritime, Royal Caribbean Group, received compensation valued at $3.61m, on par with 2021. His salary was $847,948, up 5%. Kulovaara is entitled to a bonus of $150,000 per ship delivered during the year so his bonus includes $300,000 for the two ships handed over in 2022.

 

Naftali Holtz

CFO Naftali Holtz joined the company's named executive officers for the first time in 2022 with total compensation valued at $2.81m. This includes a salary of $675,000.

 

Richard Fain

Royal Caribbean Group Chairman Richard Fain received total compensation valued at $300,006, down from the $15.81m in 2021 when he also served as CEO. Fain's 2022 compensation was solely related to his work as a company director: 100,000 in fees and a $200,006 stock award."

 

Jason Liberty's 2022 compensation valued at $10.76m (seatrade-cruise.com)

Just numbers to us, does it really matter? Pretty sure none of what they are doing is really worth what they are getting paid for.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Jimbo