Suggestions RCL needs to do to get people cruising again

[hazence]

There is some bewilderment about the “estimates.”  The hospitals in some of these areas have laid off diagnostic techs and shut down elective surgeries and they sit...waiting for us to turn into NYC. 
 

But what we see is for weeks, before lockdown...we did all the forbidden things that should have impacted us if this were so highly contagious. I have mentioned before that I live in a gated community...half retirees...half second home “part-timers”

 

The part timers have understandably flown back here from NY, New Orleans, even one family from  London...and for at least two weeks before shutdown...they mixed with the “high risk” retirees who live here full time.

 

We shop in crowded grocery stores...few people masked. 
 

But weeks have passed. In our community, no one is ill.  Golf course is open, everyone chats and shares info.

 

Thats our reality.
 

 

 

 

 

[HBE4]

This thread has quickly become my #1 entertainment thread. Much better than any dress code or tipping thread could be. 😃

Edited April 22, 2020 by HBE4

[adidas5676]

3 hours ago, hazence said:

There is some bewilderment about the “estimates.”  The hospitals in some of these areas have laid off diagnostic techs and shut down elective surgeries and they sit...waiting for us to turn into NYC. 
 

But what we see is for weeks, before lockdown...we did all the forbidden things that should have impacted us if this were so highly contagious. I have mentioned before that I live in a gated community...half retirees...half second home “part-timers”

 

The part timers have understandably flown back here from NY, New Orleans, even one family from  London...and for at least two weeks before shutdown...they mixed with the “high risk” retirees who live here full time.

 

We shop in crowded grocery stores...few people masked. 
 

But weeks have passed. In our community, no one is ill.  Golf course is open, everyone chats and shares info.

 

Thats our reality.

Here is our Florida map showing south Florida where Miami is a hotspot of Covid cases.  Directly west of the Miami hotspot are zero reported cases (by zipcode) in the gray areas.  This tells me that it's not that certain zip codes are somehow "immune" to Covid, because that's an absolutely ridiculous assumption, but rather they have not been tested due to lack of accessibility or some other reason.

[hazence]

I have never claimed any area was immune.

 

But, why DO people get tested at this point in time?  
 

They get tested because they have symptoms of the virus and those symptoms send them to an ER or private physician who orders the test.

 

Perhaps some people have a mild case and aren’t tested. But mild symptoms are good news.

 

Perhaps they are asymptomatic and have had the virus...if so, more good news.

The fact is that people in my zip code aren’t sick with the symptoms of COVID, or if they are...they have either tested negative or a physician felt their symptoms did not merit a test.

More good news.

 

And in my entire county, not one death. So physicians are making the right call.
 

Check out that SC map...lots of areas with 5 or under cases in lots of areas. If there are all of these hidden cases, as you suggest...they are not sick enough to be tested or hospitalized.

 

GOOD NEWS!

 

We still have an ABUNDANCE of  available hospital space, by the way. 

 

https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-diseases/viruses/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/sc-testing-data-projections-covid-19

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by hazence

[hazence]

Is it your assumption that untested people in the clear areas are dying somehow without being diagnosed?  

 

Or are seriously ill without receiving any medical treatment? 
 

Do you assume if they were tested that their zip code would look like Miami?

 

Do you assume that the whole area is rife with asymptomatic individuals or somehow exempt from symptoms that would have them seek out medical treatment and be tested?

 

Does Florida not have enough tests available for those who present with symptoms?

 

 

 

 

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, adidas5676 said:

Here is our Florida map showing south Florida where Miami is a hotspot of Covid cases.  Directly west of the Miami hotspot are zero reported cases (by zipcode) in the gray areas.  This tells me that it's not that certain zip codes are somehow "immune" to Covid, because that's an absolutely ridiculous assumption, but rather they have not been tested due to lack of accessibility or some other reason.

 

That's just swampland😉

[John&LaLa]

30 minutes ago, hazence said:

Is it your assumption that untested people in the clear areas are dying somehow without being diagnosed?  

 

Or are seriously ill without receiving any medical treatment? 
 

Do you assume if they were tested that their zip code would look like Miami?

 

Do you assume that the whole area is rife with asymptomatic individuals or somehow exempt from symptoms that would have them seek out medical treatment and be tested?

 

Does Florida not have enough tests available for those who present with symptoms?

 

 

What was your original point in all this?

I've totally forgotten,  sorry.

[molly361]

I hope I don't have to wear a mask on board.  That will make it very hard for me to get my UBP worth🍺

[hazence]

16 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

What was your original point in all this?

I've totally forgotten,  sorry.

Can’t remember. Lately I’m mainly debating people who want me to be as terrified as they are and trying to explain that there are actually very good reasons why I’m not.,

 

Ill check back in a week or two from now and report whether my virus free zip code is now littered with decaying but untested corpses. Or whether we have been exposed as zombie carriers.

 

 

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, hazence said:

Can’t remember. Lately I’m mainly debating people who want me to be as terrified as they are and trying to explain that there are actually very good reasons why I’m not.,

 

Ill check back in a week or two from now and report whether my virus free zip code is now littered with decaying but untested corpses. Or whether we have been exposed as zombie carriers.

 

 

 

Care to share this magic zip code?

 

Mine is 32931

[UnorigionalName]

22 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Not quite everyone... scientists so far believe that if the Virus were to be allowed to run rampant, it's about a 50% infection rate.

 

Your last sentence is ominous, especially with the supposed "reopening" in Georgia and the protests to get back to normal in various parts of the USA. Maybe that's the answer.... rip off the band-aid right now everywhere and go back to normal. Those that should die will die anyways, regardless of flattening the curve... we're just prolonging their life by destroying the economy... that's what you're saying, right?

 

If 50% of USA gets infected, that's 180,000,000 people. It was proven  by Italy, Spain,etc that mortality rates when nothing is done to slow down the spread is around 8%-10%. How many USA citizens is that out of 180,000,000? Let's say that the Italy & Spain figures are wrong, Italy was an aged population, yada yada yada.... Let's say USA ends up with only a 1% mortality rate, one of the best in the world. What is 1% people dead out of 180 million? 

 

 

The ~60% herd immunity calculation was based off old R0 estimates.  With new estimates, probably will need closer to 85-90+% for herd immunity.

[adidas5676]

3 minutes ago, hazence said:

Can’t remember. Lately I’m mainly debating people who want me to be as terrified as they are and trying to explain that there are actually very good reasons why I’m not.,

 

Ill check back in a week or two from now and report whether my virus free zip code is now littered with decaying but untested corpses. Or whether we have been exposed as zombie carriers.

 

 

The idea behind mass testing is for several reasons.  Mainly for research and data purposes to get a better idea of how many people actually got the disease, the range of symptoms (if any) experienced, underlying conditions that contribute to hospitalization, etc but ALSO because people who are asymptomatic can possibly donate plasma to help make the vaccine or cures.

[molly361]

Found this on CLIA's site.  Looks like it may be the new health form, hopefully INSTEAD of the over 70 one

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/Media-Kit/CV/Sample-Travelers-Health-Declaration___LATEST-VERSION

[hazence]

9 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Care to share this magic zip code?

 

Mine is 32931

https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-diseases/viruses/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/sc-testing-data-projections-covid-19

 

Check here...we live in one of the ZERO cases zip codes...a nice number to choose from. I’d tell you which one...but thankfully our Governor shut down all the short term rentals. Too many New Yorkers and Floridans attempting to visit.

Edited April 22, 2020 by hazence

[adidas5676]

1 minute ago, molly361 said:

Found this on CLIA's site.  Looks like it may be the new health form, hopefully INSTEAD of the over 70 one

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/Media-Kit/CV/Sample-Travelers-Health-Declaration___LATEST-VERSION

Wow, that is a far cry from what I expected to see.  But who knows what year that questionnaire will be implemented, afterall...

[hazence]

3 minutes ago, adidas5676 said:

The idea behind mass testing is for several reasons.  Mainly for research and data purposes to get a better idea of how many people actually got the disease, the range of symptoms (if any) experienced, underlying conditions that contribute to hospitalization, etc but ALSO because people who are asymptomatic can possibly donate plasma to help make the vaccine or cures.

And of course that should be done. The poster I responded to was not touting the very legit rationales for testing, which I support... but rather implying that we were disease ridden, just, sadly undiscovered as yet.

Edited April 22, 2020 by hazence

[adidas5676]

2 minutes ago, hazence said:

And of course that should be done. The poster I responded to was not touting the very legit rationales for testing, which I support... but rather implying that we were disease ridden, just, sadly undiscovered as yet.

That was me you were talking to😉, and I replied to this response of yours:

 

"But, why DO people get tested at this point in time?  "

[HBE4]

24 minutes ago, hazence said:

Can’t remember. Lately I’m mainly debating people who want me to be as terrified as they are and trying to explain that there are actually very good reasons why I’m not.,

 

Ill check back in a week or two from now and report whether my virus free zip code is now littered with decaying but untested corpses. Or whether we have been exposed as zombie carriers.

 

 

 

Your posts do cover a wide range of subjects. So I'll just address these two.

 

There is a difference between being terrified and  knowing / understanding the risks. Knowledge is a good thing. 

 

Your zip code has 0 Covid-19 cases. Congratulations. You are doing a great job at social distancing.  Keep it up.

 

7 minutes ago, adidas5676 said:

That was me you were talking to😉, and I replied to this response of yours:

 

"But, why DO people get tested at this point in time?  "

 

I applaud your efforts. But I think the conversation will continue to go in circles.

 

In my humble opinion,  of course. 

 

[hazence]

Just now, adidas5676 said:

That was me you were talking to😉, and I replied to this response of yours:

 

"But, why DO people get tested at this point in time?  "

My response was tainted by your insinuation that I was positing that people in certain areas were “immune”...I said nothing of the sort.

Our daughter is a Mayo trained Physician. I’m not a COVID denier. I’m simply pointing out that one size does not fit all. I’m as horrified as any by what we see in NYC.

 

I believe density and the large population that travels daily by subway and train account for those numbers. LA which has the density, but people commute on those crowded highways, has fared much better.

 

I said as much in my early posts. I believe that density remains the central problem cruise ships will have to solve until there is a vaccine or better info from wider testing.

 

The reality where I live is not NYC. The level or lack of...fear and high anxiety among my family and our neighbors reflects the numbers we see daily on our State website and what we are hearing from physician  relatives and friends concerning inpatients in local hospitals. 
 

I truly believe the media does not need to immerse us in emotional stories of horror and loss hour after hour...page after page. 
 

 

I
 

 

, 

[Ourusualbeach]

27 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Found this on CLIA's site.  Looks like it may be the new health form, hopefully INSTEAD of the over 70 one

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/Media-Kit/CV/Sample-Travelers-Health-Declaration___LATEST-VERSION

To me that looks like one that was implemented right when the outbreak started since it mentions only a few countries and before they implemented the letter for 70 yo’s.  Why would they only have China, South Korea and Macau on a current letter. 

 

It would hsve have been nice if it was current.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[adidas5676]

3 minutes ago, hazence said:

My response was tainted by your insinuation that I was positing that people in certain areas were “immune”...I said nothing of the sort.

Our daughter is a Mayo trained Physician. I’m not a COVID denier. I’m simply pointing out that one size does not fit all. I’m as horrified as any by what we see in NYC.

 

I believe density and the large population that travels daily by subway and train account for those numbers. LA which has the density, but people commute on those crowded highways, has fared much better.

 

I said as much in my early posts. I believe that density remains the central problem cruise ships will have to solve until there is a vaccine or better info from wider testing.

 

The reality where I live is not NYC. The level or lack of...fear and high anxiety among my family and our neighbors reflects the numbers we see daily on our State website and what we are hearing from physician  relatives and friends concerning inpatients in local hospitals. 
 

I truly believe the media does not need to immerse us in emotional stories of horror and loss hour after hour...page after page. 

I

,

This is the first post of yours on this subject that I completely agree with.  Population density has a great deal to do with case prevalence.  It's not the be all to end all though.  Rural factories in the midwest have had outbreaks as well.  L.A. fared better than NYC because the governor of California implemented Stay at Home orders in March, FAR ahead of the rest of the country, and that actually did help them slow the spread there.  Now, I don't care to get into political debate on which states with which parties are doing such and such, because I think there are idiots on both sides.  But here in Florida we have only been on a Stay at Home order for a whopping 2 weeks and people are losing their minds.  I've been in quarantine with 3 toddlers for 2 months straight, and if anyone is allowed to lose their mind it's darn well me.

[RoyalC]

On 4/20/2020 at 2:56 PM, Kokomo91165 said:

1.  Share detailed plan of hygiene protocol for cabins, public areas and cruise terminal 

 

2.  Share detailed plan of screening procedures for guest and crew. 
 

3.  Limit crowded lounges to 50% capacity - such as diamond lounge/concierge lounge, schooner bar, theater, studio B.

 

4.  Reduce 200% single supplement to 150% for 2020 sailings 

 

Please add more suggestions. 

 

Stop people from coughing (or sneezing). That is how things spread so good luck. I get sick a lot on cruises and it is from people coughing nearby. I wash my hands constantly, does not matter.

Limit the Diamond lounge and others? good luck!

[John&LaLa]

16 minutes ago, adidas5676 said:

This is the first post of yours on this subject that I completely agree with.  Population density has a great deal to do with case prevalence.  It's not the be all to end all though.  Rural factories in the midwest have had outbreaks as well.  L.A. fared better than NYC because the governor of California implemented Stay at Home orders in March, FAR ahead of the rest of the country, and that actually did help them slow the spread there.  Now, I don't care to get into political debate on which states with which parties are doing such and such, because I think there are idiots on both sides.  But here in Florida we have only been on a Stay at Home order for a whopping 2 weeks and people are losing their minds.  I've been in quarantine with 3 toddlers for 2 months straight, and if anyone is allowed to lose their mind it's darn well me.

 

Since we came home from Allure on March 14th, we've been at home for 5 weeks😷😷

[mkmaj]

As far as the age debate... just as in pregnancy, they are looking out for passengers' safety not who is going to spread the virus. Elderly are more likely to become seriously ill and they do not have an ICU to care for many seriously ill people. Just like they don't have a NICU to care for premature babies. 

 

I don't think banning older passengers or those with pre-existing conditions, from certain zip codes, etc. does anything to move cruising forward.

 

What I think it will take to resume cruising as usual before a vaccine is point of care testing. A widely available, accurate test that can screen everyone before they board with a finger stick.

[adidas5676]

10 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Since we came home from Allure on March 14th, we've been at home for 5 weeks😷😷

The last time my family of 5 (me, husband, and 3 toddlers) went somewhere was Feb 18 to Disney.  Haven't gone anywhere since, except for groceries or for my husband to pick up paychecks.

 

Speaking of Allure, how did you like it?  I'm booked for end of November this year (wishful and hopeful by then we'll be able to cruise in relative safety) on Allure and we are still looking forward to it in spite of RCCL's horrendous customer service.  I had originally booked Harmony 15 months in advance to sail April 2020 to celebrate mine and my husband's 3 year wedding anniversary...we haven't cruised since April 2017 when we started having children...this cruise is a long time coming.