Norwegian Cruise Line May Go Out of Business

[gnld]

We have a transatlantic in April on the Marina. Final payment not due until Jan. 9, so we're going to "want & see" how things develop during the next 8 months. Azamara cancelled a cruise on us in early March; still waiting for our cash refund! And last month we did cancel a Viking cruise for August (got our refund promptly!). But on the other hand, we just booked a Crystal B2B in the Middle East for late 2022 (never booked a cruise 2-1/2 years out!). We're certainly not ready to board a plane or cruise ship in the next few months!

[Jim and Monika]

3 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Jim     you dont make stock offerings when your in financial trouble and facing bankruptcy because anyone who bought stock or bonds prior to the bankruptcy would loose their entire investment.... that is the way it works.   

You buy after bankruptcy when they issue NEW stock as the OLD is WORTHLESS.     But to buy you have to get in line because the premarket traders and hedge funds  who buy 10,000 share + will have priority in the IPO.....

Your looking at an entirely different situation.

 

I was talking about this:

[Jim and Monika]

3 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Jim     you dont make stock offerings when your in financial trouble and facing bankruptcy because anyone who bought stock or bonds prior to the bankruptcy would loose their entire investment.... that is the way it works.   

You buy after bankruptcy when they issue NEW stock as the OLD is WORTHLESS.     But to buy you have to get in line because the premarket traders and hedge funds  who buy 10,000 share + will have priority in the IPO.....

Your looking at an entirely different situation.

 

I was talking about this:

[nztyke]

If you read the article it says that the Private Equity investment of $400m is not a done deal, it is contingent on NCL raising at least  $1bn from other investors. A savvy investor would let the company go to the wall and pick up the assets cheaply unencumbered by debt. 

We have a cruise booked for November and are supposed to pay the balance  in a couple of weeks which of course we will not be doing. As Oceania have not actually cancelled the cruise even though it has a nil chance of sailing we will have to cancel and write off the money. 

 

Oh well, worse things happen at sea as they say. 

[LHT28]

1 minute ago, nztyke said:

If you read the article it says that the Private Equity investment of $400m is not a done deal, it is contingent on NCL raising at least  $1bn from other investors. A savvy investor would let the company go to the wall and pick up the assets cheaply unencumbered by debt. 

We have a cruise booked for November and are supposed to pay the balance  in a couple of weeks which of course we will not be doing. As Oceania have not actually cancelled the cruise even though it has a nil chance of sailing we will have to cancel and write off the money. 

 

Oh well, worse things happen at sea as they say. 

You should get your deposit back if you cancel now   or if they hold back the Admin fee  it can be used in the future  up to 1 yr  (I think)

 

They did raise  the 2 Bil required  so maybe the cruise  will go forward

Just guessing

[Sticks5315]

4 hours ago, Shawnino said:

 

Emphasis mine.

What advantage do you see in that vs. cancelling with the option to re-book if/when things settle down?

We got what appears right now to have gotten a really good deal. With the additional liquidity I think they will endure. We will re-evaluate before we make our final payment, however.

[nztyke]

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

You should get your deposit back if you cancel now   or if they hold back the Admin fee  it can be used in the future  up to 1 yr  (I think)

 

They did raise  the 2 Bil required  so maybe the cruise  will go forward

Just guessing

 

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

You should get your deposit back if you cancel now   or if they hold back the Admin fee  it can be used in the future  up to 1 yr  (I think)

 

They did raise  the 2 Bil required  so maybe the cruise  will go forward

Just guessing

it would be very welcome if we could get our deposit back but if we cancel before they officially cancel the cruise I can’t see it.

The cruise may go forward but it will be doing so without us, up the Amazon to Manaos , one the Covid-19 hotspots does not appeal. I can’t see anyone in their right mind, especially considering the demographic of cruisers, travelling unless they have been vaccinated and that’s a long way off. 

We are in NZ and there is no way that cruise ships will be allowed in here, or Australia for that matter, this year and probably most of next year and I’m sure a lot of other destination countries will be of like  mind. There may be scope for some of the cruise lines to run  ‘party cruises’ , all sea days. 

 

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out but whatever happens it’s going to be a lot different, perhaps not a bad thing as cruise ships were becoming a bit of a blight in many places, I don’t think we will miss them a lot in NZ. 

 

[clo]

10 minutes ago, nztyke said:

The cruise may go forward but it will be doing so without us

I think that's a superb point. 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, nztyke said:

 

it would be very welcome if we could get our deposit back but if we cancel before they officially cancel the cruise I can’t see it.

 

I cannot  see them cancelling the Nov cruise before your FP is  due

 

[Fam_Cruise]

8 hours ago, LHT28 said:

I cannot  see them cancelling the Nov cruise before your FP is  due

 

When final payment is due, just tell them to expect your FP within 90 days...  

[tocruiseguy]

11 hours ago, nztyke said:

 

it would be very welcome if we could get our deposit back but if we cancel before they officially cancel the cruise I can’t see it.

The cruise may go forward but it will be doing so without us, up the Amazon to Manaos , one the Covid-19 hotspots does not appeal. I can’t see anyone in their right mind, especially considering the demographic of cruisers, travelling unless they have been vaccinated and that’s a long way off. 

We are in NZ and there is no way that cruise ships will be allowed in here, or Australia for that matter, this year and probably most of next year and I’m sure a lot of other destination countries will be of like  mind. There may be scope for some of the cruise lines to run  ‘party cruises’ , all sea days. 

 

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out but whatever happens it’s going to be a lot different, perhaps not a bad thing as cruise ships were becoming a bit of a blight in many places, I don’t think we will miss them a lot in NZ. 

 

Regardless how the cruise lines restructure financially everything is dependant on customers returning and as you state countries actually allowing cruise ships to dock.  You won't get the former without the latter.  I have been reading a lot of articles on the cruise industry since Covid and there seems to be a substantial percentage of the population that loathe the industry for various reasons (pollution, crew member wages, avoiding taxation, etc).  The more I read the more I believe that the industry that appears post Covid will be substantially different and be significantly smaller than it currently is.  I have never personally liked the fact that ships were getting bigger and bigger.   Other changes, for example Celebrity's newest ship class greatly expanding the sq footage for suite customers at the expense of everyone else is another negative industry trend.

 

Covid has really exposed the fundamental problems with the industry.  There is a serious reckoning coming and I have come to the conclusion that to place any of your money at risk for even a nominal deposit does not make any sense at this time.  

[KirkNC]

11 hours ago, nztyke said:

 

it would be very welcome if we could get our deposit back but if we cancel before they officially cancel the cruise I can’t see it.

The cruise may go forward but it will be doing so without us, up the Amazon to Manaos , one the Covid-19 hotspots does not appeal. I can’t see anyone in their right mind, especially considering the demographic of cruisers, travelling unless they have been vaccinated and that’s a long way off. 

We are in NZ and there is no way that cruise ships will be allowed in here, or Australia for that matter, this year and probably most of next year and I’m sure a lot of other destination countries will be of like  mind. There may be scope for some of the cruise lines to run  ‘party cruises’ , all sea days. 

 

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out but whatever happens it’s going to be a lot different, perhaps not a bad thing as cruise ships were becoming a bit of a blight in many places, I don’t think we will miss them a lot in NZ. 

 

You should get your deposit back either way but it will take a while, 90 days is what they will tell you.

 

i find your comments on cruise ships in your area interesting and I believe correct.  Right now most are understandably focused on refunds and FCC’s but when and which ports maybe open to cruise ships is an equally important question for those booking a year or so into the future.  In Australia and New Zealand, they (the cruise industry) really have messed up and I think it could take a long time before people forgive and/forget. 

[pinotlover]

There is logically a huge difference of opinion on these issues based upon whether the person has a job or pension and is still drawing a check versus those that don’t. 
 

In the US, real estate taxes pay a large percentage of the school taxes in many States. So after the forced lengthy shutdown collapses many businesses, commercial real estate prices will also collapse. I want all of you cheering on those to stay home and be safe, leave everything closed, to likewise cheer when the politicians come to tell you your real estate taxes are doubling to make up the difference in loss revenues! Remember, it’s all for the children!

[Paulchili]

8 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

There is logically a huge difference of opinion on these issues based upon whether the person has a job or pension and is still drawing a check versus those that don’t. 
 

In the US, real estate taxes pay a large percentage of the school taxes in many States. So after the forced lengthy shutdown collapses many businesses, commercial real estate prices will also collapse. I want all of you cheering on those to stay home and be safe, leave everything closed, to likewise cheer when the politicians come to tell you your real estate taxes are doubling to make up the difference in loss revenues! Remember, it’s all for the children!

Thanks to Prop 13 that can't happen in CA

[pinotlover]

15 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Thanks to Prop 13 that can't happen in CA

Only CA has that. If they don’t take it that way, they’ll find another. 

[HiFi43]

I have just read this whole thread and while I think many good points and some premature panic is expressed, I am convinced as the old saying goes “this too will pass” with time and that Oceania has the “nautical runway” to weather the storm. The past passengers are too loyal not to return when things settle down and the quality of the service, the management, the experiences we have all experienced on Oceania will bring us back.
 

We were on the Marina about to disembark from a healthy ship in Peru when the Covid crisis shut down the port. The Marina had been practicing extraordinary food safety and passenger sanitary measures during all of our voyage so we felt safe. They made the right decision to bring a healthy ship on to Miami after transiting the Panama Canal and took extraordinary measures to get all passengers to their homes when we landed in Miami. The vast majority of the passengers I talked to felt safer on the ship than going home. I, absolutely, congratulate Frank Del Rio (founder of Oceania and CEO of NCL) and Bob Binder (CEO of Oceania and Regent) for their humanitarian leadership during this crisis. And, yes, I do believe they will survive.

 

I am hopeful all of Oceania’s past loyal passengers stand tall and, when they feel comfortable, return to the wonderful experience of exploring the world with Oceania and us. We personally believe Covid will be controlled and we can enjoy Oceania and the world again again. My wife and I have not cancelled any future voyages because of Oceania’s new very fair last minute cancellation policy and because our experiences with Oceania convince us we will be as safe as humanity possible on their cruises. We prefer to see “the cup half full rather than half empty” and believe the pendulum will swing back to center in all things in the future.  
 

Who is with us I in feeling positive and anxious to return?

 

Bruce   

[Jancruz]

12 minutes ago, HiFi43 said:

I have just read this whole thread and while I think many good points and some premature panic is expressed, I am convinced as the old saying goes “this too will pass” with time and that Oceania has the “nautical runway” to weather the storm. The past passengers are too loyal not to return when things settle down and the quality of the service, the management, the experiences we have all experienced on Oceania will bring us back.
 

We were on the Marina about to disembark from a healthy ship in Peru when the Covid crisis shut down the port. The Marina had been practicing extraordinary food safety and passenger sanitary measures during all of our voyage so we felt safe. They made the right decision to bring a healthy ship on to Miami after transiting the Panama Canal and took extraordinary measures to get all passengers to their homes when we landed in Miami. The vast majority of the passengers I talked to felt safer on the ship than going home. I, absolutely, congratulate Frank Del Rio (founder of Oceania and CEO of NCL) and Bob Binder (CEO of Oceania and Regent) for their humanitarian leadership during this crisis. And, yes, I do believe they will survive.

 

I am hopeful all of Oceania’s past loyal passengers stand tall and, when they feel comfortable, return to the wonderful experience of exploring the world with Oceania and us. We personally believe Covid will be controlled and we can enjoy Oceania and the world again again. My wife and I have not cancelled any future voyages because of Oceania’s new very fair last minute cancellation policy and because our experiences with Oceania convince us we will be as safe as humanity possible on their cruises. We prefer to see “the cup half full rather than half empty” and believe the pendulum will swing back to center in all things in the future.  
 

Who is with us I in feeling positive and anxious to return?

 

Bruce   

I will be on the first cruise that leaves Miami or California

Jancruz1

[Paulchili]

16 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

I will be on the first cruise that leaves Miami or California

Jancruz1

I will join you as soon as I get vaccinated 🙂

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I will join you as soon as I get vaccinated 🙂

What was the name of that zombie movie where the vaccinations end up starting the apocalypse?

In any case, with/without vaccine, we're keeping all our future O cruises booked: November 2020, January 2021, May 2022. And right now, we're looking at what we'll add in autumn 2021.

[Paulchili]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

What was the name of that zombie movie where the vaccinations end up starting the apocalypse?

Can't help you with that one - not something I would watch.😀

Hope all your cruises go off without a hitch.

[PaulMCO]

37 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

I will be on the first cruise that leaves Miami or California

Jancruz1

 

21 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I will join you as soon as I get vaccinated 🙂

I will join both when Bill Gates becomes a Republican  🙂

[Paulchili]

4 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

 

I will join both when Bill Gates becomes a Republican  🙂

Or goes on Welfare - whichever happens first? 😀

[Hawaiidan]

20 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Not necessarily. When AA went into Chapter 11, after the restructuring the old stock was exchanged for the new. I had purchased it at a very low price and upon the reissue sold it at the much higher price. Chapter 7 is different.

 

If a company comes through Chapter 11 with its original stock intact, it might be an investment worth considering. You should make a determination that the company has a good chance of continuing as a viable entity. Buying stock in a company in bankruptcy usually means you are getting the stock at rock-bottom prices. If the company has a successful turnaround, you may be sitting on very low-priced stock that could register an impressive rise

That  has not been my experience.....  I as invested in Both UA and  Pan Am....     lost it all...   UA came back and issued new stock..  the old was worthless

[Mura]

6 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I will join you as soon as I get vaccinated 🙂

Paul, There is a young llama in Belgium who may be able to help you.  According to a NY Times article today she has antibodies for various Coronaviruses including this one.  If you're not a subscribe you probably won't be able to access it.  If so, and you want to see it, email me privately and I'll send you the article.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_200507

 

Mura

 

[pinotlover]

8 hours ago, KirkNC said:

In Australia and New Zealand, they (the cruise industry) really have messed up and I think it could take a long time before people forgive and/forget. 

I believe if Sidney, Melbourne, Perth, Dunedin, Hobart, Napier, Wellington, Auckland, etc, don’t want cruise ships and the tourists they bring in, they are free to close their ports to cruise ships anytime. Direct your harbor masters to refuse docking inquiries. Simple Enough, Push on!