Are we seeing the end of cruising?

[AF-1]

3 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

Do you really believe that ?  I just looked up a cruise in Nov and they are showing inside cabins for booking.

Go figure;  I watched the video he did with CNBC; and he stated they were looking at blocking inside cabins; but would comply with what the CDC wanted.  So things change every 24 hours.  Have nice day

[Diver2014]

1 hour ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

I am a Master Rated Diver.....it depends on the shark......Reef Shark (no).....Great White (yes).

 

I have my instructor certification and I quite agree with you about the sharks.  I'd love to cage dive with great whites but I think I'm to the age now that it would be more trouble than it's worth. But given the opportunity.....yeah, I'd do it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Diver2014

[Luckiestmanonearth]

1 hour ago, AF-1 said:

Go figure;  I watched the video he did with CNBC; and he stated they were looking at blocking inside cabins; but would comply with what the CDC wanted.  So things change every 24 hours.  Have nice day

And if you go to Carnival site, they have inside cabins for sale on Sept 4th

[Cafedumonde]

Pointless article

[bluesea321]

2 hours ago, Diver2014 said:

So stay home. Can you get your head around that? We all make our own choices and no one is forcing you to accept their decision to go on a cruise or go to the grocery store.  Since I'm a scuba diver, I get asked all the time if I am afraid of sharks. No, I am not.  If you are, you shouldn't go into the water.  Am I afraid to get on a cruise ship now?  No, the ships are probably cleaner than they've ever been.  There will be changes made and I'm ready to accept whatever we need to do to reduce risk.  But staying home is not one of them.

 

Your analogy has no logic.  If a shark attacks you while diving, it affects you; the shark is of no consequence for those on land.  If a passenger catches COVID on a ship and disembarks, he will infect countless others on land.  It is not YOU accepting whatever the risk, it is YOUR poor decisions affecting others.  Hopefully you can get your head around that.

[Diver2014]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Your analogy has no logic.  If a shark attacks you while diving, it affects you; the shark is of no consequence for those on land.  If a passenger catches COVID on a ship and disembarks, he will infect countless others on land.  It is not YOU accepting whatever the risk, it is YOUR poor decisions affecting others.  Hopefully you can get your head around that.

 

You  obviously missed my point.  And it's not my poor decision, that's just your opinion.  If you think the risk is too great, whether it be on a ship or on land, then please stay home.  No, I won't get my head around your opinion.

[By The Bay]

9 hours ago, Fat Albert said:

 source WHO hahaha yeah OK GOT the facts NOW

There are many scientific reports available, not just W.H.O., which you seem to dismiss.

 

"The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S."

"Among reported COVID-19 cases in the U.S., nearly 6% have died."

Source

[Roberto256]

3 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

the shark is of no consequence for those on land.

 

I must respectfully disagree.

 

Ian Ziering in Sharknado!!!

 

🙂

 

[Diver2014]

1 hour ago, Roberto256 said:

 

I must respectfully disagree.

 

Ian Ziering in Sharknado!!!

 

🙂

 

Ha, ha, ha!  Someone always has to bring up Sharknado.......such a bad show that it was almost entertaining.....LOL!

[chipmaster]

7 hours ago, Diver2014 said:

 

So stay home. Can you get your head around that? We all make our own choices and no one is forcing you to accept their decision to go on a cruise or go to the grocery store.  Since I'm a scuba diver, I get asked all the time if I am afraid of sharks. No, I am not.  If you are, you shouldn't go into the water.  Am I afraid to get on a cruise ship now?  No, the ships are probably cleaner than they've ever been.  There will be changes made and I'm ready to accept whatever we need to do to reduce risk.  But staying home is not one of them.

 

Interesting, I'd never want to dive with you ,  you need fear, that is what makes you have respect,  caution and make you do things smartly, fear doesn't stop you, to have no fear is naive and dangerous.  

 

As to cruising it will never be the same, and I think when it comes is anyones guess.  At least the airline CEOs are honest in their assessment of their industry and they are talking only about putting people in the air for a few yours, not having thousand mingle together for leisure and load and unload in a different port taking with and bring back what not... the Cruiseline CEOs are in lala land or have to be

 

 

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, By The Bay said:

There are many scientific reports available, not just W.H.O., which you seem to dismiss.

 

"The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S."

"Among reported COVID-19 cases in the U.S., nearly 6% have died."

Source

 

6%, okay you do know that the number of actually infected and asymptomatic has been accessed to be far higher.  So the death rate shouldn't be evaluated against the tested ( mostly test the most sick in the US ) versus the larger sample to see real prevalence

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, Diver2014 said:

 

You  obviously missed my point.  And it's not my poor decision, that's just your opinion.  If you think the risk is too great, whether it be on a ship or on land, then please stay home.  No, I won't get my head around your opinion.

 

The problem with this risk is that the port authorities, governments and business need to access risk / reward and ROI at least for the Cruise lines the ROI is the one and only priority.

 

The visiting port doesn't care about your lack of fear or your high tolerance for risk.  He looks at the cruise and he sees possible freedom fanatic gun totting / maskless protesters from Michigan mixed with many high risk rule abiding / risk minimizing people all mingling from all over the world and they will veto the whole visit.    

 

 

[npcl]

21 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

6%, okay you do know that the number of actually infected and asymptomatic has been accessed to be far higher.  So the death rate shouldn't be evaluated against the tested ( mostly test the most sick in the US ) versus the larger sample to see real prevalence

The best estimates I have seen are from some fully tested populations (so it did catch those that were asymptomatic as well as those with minor symptoms, in addition to the serious cases),  There have been a few, the Princess Diamond, being one of them.  The population size of each ranging from 700 to 5000.  So relatively small.  But they have been somewhat consistent giving mortality numbers ranging from .9% to 1.3%.  Until there is better data it seems to be a good estimate.

 

 

[Roberto256]

13 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Pointless article

 

Can you be less specific?

[dog]

I have been getting numerous offers from Carnival cruise lines for summer/fall cruises and a few from Celebrity. There are people booking them, it appears.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

10 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

The problem with this risk is that the port authorities, governments and business need to access risk / reward and ROI at least for the Cruise lines the ROI is the one and only priority.

 

The visiting port doesn't care about your lack of fear or your high tolerance for risk.  He looks at the cruise and he sees possible freedom fanatic gun totting / maskless protesters from Michigan mixed with many high risk rule abiding / risk minimizing people all mingling from all over the world and they will veto the whole visit.    

 

 

    chipmaster - You bring up yet another reason why the first several rounds of guinea pig cruises will be a bad bet: the "protesters."

    Now in fairness, even most of that crew recognizes that their concealed carry permits don't apply on board. But they've weaponized the mask issue, and you can easily images a few of them angrily swaggering out of a lounge or even the MDR with no mask - and the trademark "I ain't wearin' no damn mask" sneer. So who will be enforcing that? 99 percent of the people those folks pass in the corridor (or the elevator) will be other passengers, a deck crew member or maybe an assistant waiter - and who will want to take on the role of Security at that point?
    For that matter, what is Security going to do if the redneck Q-anon wingnuts make up 20 percent of that trip's passengers? Or  50 percent?
     Simply doesn't sound like a fun vacation.

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

    chipmaster - You bring up yet another reason why the first several rounds of guinea pig cruises will be a bad bet: the "protesters."

    Now in fairness, even most of that crew recognizes that their concealed carry permits don't apply on board. But they've weaponized the mask issue, and you can easily images a few of them angrily swaggering out of a lounge or even the MDR with no mask - and the trademark "I ain't wearin' no damn mask" sneer. So who will be enforcing that? 99 percent of the people those folks pass in the corridor (or the elevator) will be other passengers, a deck crew member or maybe an assistant waiter - and who will want to take on the role of Security at that point?
    For that matter, what is Security going to do if the redneck Q-anon wingnuts make up 20 percent of that trip's passengers? Or  50 percent?
     Simply doesn't sound like a fun vacation.

 

Great point......cruise lines give a false sense of security and their security services are really not police force and I have seen where they let unruly cruisers sometimes get out of control and sometimes just look the other way even when others have reported trouble.

 

The fact that a lot of the people who want to cruise right away, no matter what,  seem to be promoting conspiracy theories on CC about COVID-19 lead me to believe they would be doing things out of spite on the ships just to prove that COVID-19 is just a "silly little old case of the flu" and everyone on the ship is overreacting with all of the protective measures in place.  

 

Going to a mustard drill is a major problem for many people on cruise ships and also being to asked to wash their hands before entering the buffet areas so I can see how COVID-19 guidelines are going to be a real cause of pain for them and probably resistance.

 

Already today I have seen a lot of news photos where in certain parts of the country business are opening up early, without permission,  and customers are packing restaurants with no social distancing or wearing of masks.  I have meant a lot of great people on Princess ships and I have met some real dozzies too. 

 

Myself and my family will not subject ourselves to this type of intimidation that is surely bound to happen on a cruise ship in the age of COVID-19.

Edited May 11, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

6 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Great point......cruise lines give a false sense of security and their security services are really not police force and I have seen where they let unruly cruisers sometimes get out of control and sometimes just look the other way even when others have reported trouble.

 

The fact that a lot of the people who want to cruise right away, no matter what,  seem to be promoting conspiracy theories on CC about COVID-19 lead me to believe they would be doing things out of spite on the ships just to prove that COVID-19 is just a "silly little old case of the flu" and everyone on the ship is overreacting with all of the protective measures in place.  

 

Going to a mustard drill is a major problem for many people on cruise ships and also being to asked to wash their hands before entering the buffet areas so I can see how COVID-19 guidelines are going to be a real cause of pain for them and probably resistance.

 

Already today I have seen a lot of news photos where in certain parts of the country business are opening up early, without permission,  and customers are packing restaurants with no social distancing or wearing of masks.  I have meant a lot of great people on Princess ships and I have met some real dozzies too. 

 

Myself and my family will not subject ourselves to this type of intimidation that is surely bound to happen on a cruise ship in the age of COVID-19.

   You've summed it up perfectly. Many, many of our fellow cruisers were splendid people, but there's always been a few that make you think in the MDR: "Thank God they're not at our table." (Although a couple of times, "they" were. 😲)

   And we've also been on a couple of trips where the knuckleheads had booked in pretty significant number. It only takes 10 or 20 drunk and belligerent ones at a lounge or even the pool deck to really change the atmosphere - especially on ships where Security is understaffed or else unwilling to intervene.

    Now I try to imagine a envision a horde of these folks wandering the main corridor outside the shops, or lining up outside the MDR. No masks, no distancing, no respect and no courtesy (kind of like a few posters here on CC  🙂 )   Sounds like no fun.

 

[MrBill64]

One group of passengers will find it hard to enjoy a cruise with strict social distancing rules. Another group of passengers will not enjoy cruising if strict social distancing is not enforced. Yet another hurdle that cruise lines will have to overcome in order to survive.

 

  

[Fat Albert]

21 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

You said that "Almost 5,000 people DIED  from NOT using the SHip. Cuomo Made a terrible decision to NOT use the ship."

 

Factual: The ship arrived in NY on March 30 for non-covid patients. On April 17, it was repurpose for covid patients. On April 21, the state said that it was no longer needed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ships_designated_for_the_COVID-19_pandemic#USNS_Mercy

 

So, your claim cannot be remotely correct. The ship was repurposed on April 17 after 13k people had already died in NY state.  The ship had nothing to do with the 5k deaths you mentioned.

 

I have no confidence in anything you say. It is not grounded in facts or analysis. 

 

 The Nursing Homes in NY have 4,800 death from COVID 19. The Gov made an executive order that ALL NH patients who tested for COVID 19 MUST BE ALLOWED BACK INTO THE NH. He should have sent them to the Javits center or designated a COVID 19 NH . He did not and allowed them to return and 4,800 since died. The NY gov JUST REVERSED HIS executive order today to NOT ALLOW POSTIVE NH Patients to RETURN to same NH. You can at least find that info.

[Fat Albert]

21 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 HAPPLESS , You are not able to discuss the facts . You have thousands of posts  on this site so I know this is your social life. You just need a conversation for yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Fat Albert]

20 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

Just about every one of your 'facts' are wrong.   

 

The javits center was (initially) designated for non-COVID-19 patients due to lack of ventilators.

 

This artical covers the evolution:

 

https://www.kitv.com/story/42107580/what-i-saw-at-the-javits-centers-covid-19-hospital

 

You claim "cuomo did not use jacob javits center".

 

ABC News says:

 

"Coronavirus News: Javits Center hospital closing after treating more than 1,000 amid COVID-19 pandemic"

 

https://abc7ny.com/health/javits-center-hospital-closing;-treated-1000+-amid-pandemic/6142109/

 

After the first week an ambulance deliverd 2 Positvie COVID 19 patients to the USNS MERCY and it was a mistake. The Javits was designated COVID center. The decsion was then made to use the hospital ship also for COVID 19 Positive cases. The NH industry in NY sent all positve NH patients BACK to the NH they came form BY EXECUTIVE ORDER GOV CUOMO. Todays news reprots Cuomo is reverswing this decsion and all NH positve COVID cases will NOT go back to HN. I am a NEW YORKER. I live in the city.

[HappyInVan]

25 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

 

 Yawn!

Edited May 11, 2020 by HappyInVan

[Roger88]

Cruising is not going anywhere. For this year maybe it will face some difficulties but next year (hopefully) everything will be back to where it was. These industries operate with billions and they are largest tax payers. As long as there is a sea there will be cruises. I would even add that cruising will be more exciting because they would want to attract as many people as possible

[HappyInVan]

15 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

 

 

Not worth quoting