Ruby Princess - Special Inquiry - Evidence To Date

[Cyrix400]

7 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

Do they have to release the full recommendations to the Public, or will certain parts be redacted? 🤔

 

The Commissioner is very keen to make all of the findings available - he used the redaction to delete personal information in the exhibits which are on the website.

The government will have to first digest the inquiry recommendations - and to think about its response - , so it would be interesting to see how long it will take for the report to be made publicly available.

[By The Bay]

Just now, Cyrix400 said:

 

The Commissioner is very keen to make all of the findings available - he used the redaction to delete personal information in the exhibits which are on the website.

The government will have to first digest the inquiry recommendations - and to think about its response - , so it would be interesting to see how long it will take for the report to be made publicly available.

Thanks Cyrix400 for your input. I will patiently await the release. I have plenty of time as we are in isolation and with no cruising on the radar. 

[christodan]

2 hours ago, Cyrix400 said:

What the Special Inquiry has shown to date is how to avoid future 'group mistake' of NSW Health, the uncoordinated approach and confusion between govt agencies as to who does what, 

You know, I kind of thought that in 2020, those sorts of things would have been already sorted out.

[Aus Traveller]

The sequence of events that caused the Ruby Princess cruise to be cut short are interesting. In a media release on 16th March, the Australian government announced a restriction on ships docking in Australian ports. Prior to that, on 12th March, Princess announced a 'pause' of cruises and that longer cruises that were currently underway would be cut short. The relevant part of the announcement is quoted below.

 

After calling into Napier on 15th March, the Ruby Princess cruise was curtailed and the ship headed for Sydney. However the Australian government announcement was not made until the next day when the ship would have been docked in Tauranga if it had kept to its itinerary. (With the fact that NZ time is a couple of hours ahead of Aust time, the ship should have been docked in Tauranga in the early hours of 16th March, before the Australian government announcement was made.) The ship arrived in the early hours of 19th March.

 

Part of the statement from Princess cruises:

Those currently onboard a cruise that will end in the next five days will continue to sail as expected through the end of the itinerary so that onward travel arrangements are not disrupted. Current voyages that are underway and extend beyond March 17 will be ended at the most convenient location for guests, factoring in operational requirements. Princess will do everything possible to return each guest home with the greatest amount of care possible. 

 

The timing of these two announcements is why I have believed the cruise on the Ruby was cut short because of Princess' announcement because of the COVID pandemic.

[OzKiwiJJ]

It's possible the Australian authorities contacted the ship before the announcement was made public to arrange the most sensible change to their itinerary. Since there were other ships in the region some coordination would have been needed to ensure they didn't all arrive at once.

[robncruise]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

The sequence of events that caused the Ruby Princess cruise to be cut short are interesting. In a media release on 16th March, the Australian government announced a restriction on ships docking in Australian ports. Prior to that, on 12th March, Princess announced a 'pause' of cruises and that longer cruises that were currently underway would be cut short. The relevant part of the announcement is quoted below.

 

After calling into Napier on 15th March, the Ruby Princess cruise was curtailed and the ship headed for Sydney. However the Australian government announcement was not made until the next day when the ship would have been docked in Tauranga if it had kept to its itinerary. (With the fact that NZ time is a couple of hours ahead of Aust time, the ship should have been docked in Tauranga in the early hours of 16th March, before the Australian government announcement was made.) The ship arrived in the early hours of 19th March.

 

Part of the statement from Princess cruises:

Those currently onboard a cruise that will end in the next five days will continue to sail as expected through the end of the itinerary so that onward travel arrangements are not disrupted. Current voyages that are underway and extend beyond March 17 will be ended at the most convenient location for guests, factoring in operational requirements. Princess will do everything possible to return each guest home with the greatest amount of care possible. 

 

The timing of these two announcements is why I have believed the cruise on the Ruby was cut short because of Princess' announcement because of the COVID pandemic.

 

[robncruise]

 

I am pretty sure that the Australian government ban on cruise ships was made on the afternoon of Sunday 15 March and with effect from midnight that night all returning travellers were required to self isolate,   New Zealand made the cruise ship ban announcement on Saturday 14 March and Australia followed the next day. Cruises already in progress in New Zealand waters were permitted to proceed. 3 Hours after leaving Napier we were advised that due to  the Australian ban ( and possibly the cyclone which was developing on the north coast of New Zealand) we would be returning to Sydney immediately.

[Aus Traveller]

13 minutes ago, robncruise said:

 

I am pretty sure that the Australian government ban on cruise ships was made on the afternoon of Sunday 15 March and with effect from midnight that night all returning travellers were required to self isolate,   New Zealand made the cruise ship ban announcement on Saturday 14 March and Australia followed the next day. Cruises already in progress in New Zealand waters were permitted to proceed. 3 Hours after leaving Napier we were advised that due to  the Australian ban ( and possibly the cyclone which was developing on the north coast of New Zealand) we would be returning to Sydney immediately.

I quoted the date 16th March for the Australian announcement, because that was the date stated on the official government website. I can remember at the time that I read the Princess announcement on Cruise Critic well before (probably the day before) the Aust government announcement.

 

On Princess cruises I have been on, we have always left Napier in the afternoon (not late) because there is a fairly long distance to go to Tauranga and that needs a full day in port for shore tours to get to Rotorua etc. You mention that the announcement of cancelling the balance of the cruise was made on board only three hours after leaving Napier. Passengers would not be advised immediately after the officers on the ship have been told of the change to their itinerary - there would be some delay. I still doubt that the timing would work, particularly when you keep in mind the time difference between Aust & NZ. 🙂

 

The only way it could work is if the Aust government advised Princess at least a full day before they made the announcement.

[BRANDEE]

3 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I quoted the date 16th March for the Australian announcement, because that was the date stated on the official government website. I can remember at the time that I read the Princess announcement on Cruise Critic well before (probably the day before) the Aust government announcement.

 

On Princess cruises I have been on, we have always left Napier in the afternoon (not late) because there is a fairly long distance to go to Tauranga and that needs a full day in port for shore tours to get to Rotorua etc. You mention that the announcement of cancelling the balance of the cruise was made on board only three hours after leaving Napier. Passengers would not be advised immediately after the officers on the ship have been told of the change to their itinerary - there would be some delay. I still doubt that the timing would work, particularly when you keep in mind the time difference between Aust & NZ. 🙂

 

The only way it could work is if the Aust government advised Princess at least a full day before they made the announcement.

The Ruby left Napier at 4pm on the 15th heading to Tauranga. 

The Commodore announced that we were returning to Sydney at 9:30pm.  We were sitting in the Princess Theater just before the show started. He said NZ was closing down ports to cruise ships and also Australian government wanted us back immediately. 

When we got back to our cabin ( midnight) you could watch on the TV the start of the 180 turn the ship was making. Also waiting in our room was a flyer from the Australian Border Force that stated just what the commodore said.  It said that on 15 March 2020, the PM of Australia announced international cruise ship operations will cease and all travellers entering Australia from 0001AEDST 16 March 2020 must undertake a precautionary self isolation period for 14 days. 

I have no idea at what time the ship was actually informed, but I can tell you that prior to dinner ,around 6:00,  I was informed by Passenger service that they had changed my April 5th flight to March 21 and the new flight information would be sent to my cabin. (I had Princess EZAir and they have to make arrangements).  There were 74 passengers who were continuing on the next cruise, so Princess had only a small amount of passengers to "help". 

I thought we would go around the north of New Zealand to get back..I didn't realize the Strait of Cook was there.  We had two full days of rough seas and we were traveling at 19 +knots .  Once we came out of the Strait it was calm and slower sailing for a day until we put into port.  Talk of a cyclone was mentioned in the beginning of the cruise but not talked about when we were returning.

At Napier, Wellington and Akaraoa, the tour operators kept telling us we were going to be the last ship to dock for awhile..the NZ government was talking of shutting down cruise ports.

I'm not sure why you think Princess cut the cruise short and not the Australian and NZ governments.  Doesn't matter to me, but getting off the ship two days earlier, may have been a blessing to many who did not get Covid. 

Either way,  NSWHealth did not do their job and check the passengers when we arrived. Sick or not, we were whisked off the ship and out of the country. 

I also wonder if the b2b cruisers from the prior cruise were checked for Covid . That sailing had a lot of influenza.  Interesting thought if they were sick and just sat waiting to reboard on the 8th with the rest of us, while only a small handful of passengers from the Feb. 28th cruise were checked. NSW Health should have prevented the Ruby from sailing on March 8th. The ball was in their court and they dropped it. Very disappointed if all they get is a slap on the wrist..heads should roll!!

[The_Big_M]

13 hours ago, By The Bay said:

I don't think you are correct in saying the Australian Government cannot be sued. A group of cattle farmers sued the Federal Government for $600 million in compensation after live exports to Indonesia were banned by the Gillard administration in June 2011and won. Reported two days ago after Federal Court ruling.

I didn't say they can't be sued entirely; I said in general. There are exceptions for certain situations, one of which you gave an example of.

[christodan]

And here's our friend Fuller again just throwing blame around without checking any facts.

 From a letter in the SMH today:

 

'Commissioner Fuller shows us the police way: blaming COVID-19 outbreaks on the last rally, contrary to Victoria Health's denials, and claiming to have consulted with organisers when that is apparently also untrue. Protesters want justice.'

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/now-is-our-time-to-retool-and-diversify-manufacturing-20200723-p55exf.html

 

How does someone like that get the top job?

[Aus Traveller]

Thanks to BRANDEE for a comprehensive post on the timing of Ruby Princess' turn-around on the NZ cruise. I accept that my theory that it was the announcement by Princess that caused the turn-around (rather than the Aust government) could be wrong.

 

As an aside, I doubt that there would have been many, or indeed any, b2b cruisers from the 24th Feb cruise staying on for the 8th March cruise. The two cruises on the Ruby prior to the 8th March were also to NZ.

[OzKiwiJJ]

But I feel the need to correct one misconception BRANDEE has. Most of the rough seas would have been in the Eastern half of the Tasman Sea, not Cook Strait. Cook Strait is relatively small and would only that a few hours to transit. The smoother seas occurred once the ship got close to Australia where there is some shadowing from Tasmania. Sorry, I'm a bit pendantic about things like that. 😏😋🤣

Edited July 25, 2020 by OzKiwiJJ

[The_Big_M]

14 hours ago, christodan said:

And here's our friend Fuller again just throwing blame around without checking any facts.

 From a letter in the SMH today:

 

'Commissioner Fuller shows us the police way: blaming COVID-19 outbreaks on the last rally, contrary to Victoria Health's denials, and claiming to have consulted with organisers when that is apparently also untrue. Protesters want justice.'

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/now-is-our-time-to-retool-and-diversify-manufacturing-20200723-p55exf.html

 

How does someone like that get the top job?

 

Both statements suit his political masters.

[Cyrix400]

On 7/25/2020 at 8:26 AM, christodan said:

And here's our friend Fuller again just throwing blame around without checking any facts.

 From a letter in the SMH today:

 

'Commissioner Fuller shows us the police way: blaming COVID-19 outbreaks on the last rally, contrary to Victoria Health's denials, and claiming to have consulted with organisers when that is apparently also untrue. Protesters want justice.'

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/now-is-our-time-to-retool-and-diversify-manufacturing-20200723-p55exf.html

 

How does someone like that get the top job?

 

11 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Both statements suit his political masters.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/25/outspoken-nsw-police-chief-mick-fuller-talks-himself-into-another-controversy

"Outspoken NSW police chief Mick Fuller talks himself into another controversy"

"Supporters love his hardline views, but recent missteps have critics questioning Fuller’s judgment – and closeness to the NSW government":

[NSWP]

Not getting drawn into this, too political and CC is not a political site.  I am going back to the bat cave.  The Guardian is full of propaganda anyway, and anti establishment.  If the NSW State Govt have had enough of the Commish, they will not renew his contract as all officers in NSW Police of Inspector rank and above are on contracts.  Don't worry he won't starve, he is under the old Super Scheme like this little black duck.  

 

At least he is not frightened to speak his mind, so many are useless muppets standing behind their Premier or Police Minister, to frightened to open their mouths. 

 

Pass the...

Edited July 26, 2020 by NSWP

[Porky55]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

Pass the...

love the  Avatar btw NSWP - total change of subject 👍

Edited July 26, 2020 by Porky55

[NSWP]

7 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

love the  Avatar btw NSWP - total change of subject 👍

Thanks, because this thread will have about 99 Episodes, bigger than Netflix and go on for years.  More...

Edited July 26, 2020 by NSWP

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, NSWP said:

 

At least he is not frightened to speak his mind, so many are useless muppets standing behind their Premier or Police Minister, to frightened to open their mouths. 

 

I just wish he'd connect his brain to some facts before opening his mouth.

 

He might be a very experienced man but some of his statements lately have been based on speculation, misinformation, or imagination, and that is a worry. 🤔

[christodan]

I read the link Cyrix and I have to agree with what they said. I am particularly concerned with his comments about strip searching children and they are legally children. About six months ago my teenage daughter and I were at a train station and the police and sniffer dogs were there. There were about 10 police in riot gear and it was terrifying and very intimidating. I was very extremely worried  that my daughter would be singled out as they seem to like to target teenagers. I would have protested if they demanded to strip search her but I felt like this was Nazi Germany. It was so wrong in this day and age.

[SY7DNEY CRUISER]

K

[By The Bay]

6 minutes ago, SY7DNEY CRUISER said:

K

Very cryptic.🤔

[Cyrix400]

"Ruby Princess passengers allowed off ship after Border Force mistook negative flu tests for coronavirus results"

This is the title of the 'exclusive' ABC news long article, just now on their website (link below) - with the story apparently on 7.30 program tonight. It looks like the reporter just managed to sift thorough the Commission exibits, and in particular the one from Commonwealth with its many attachments.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-30/border-force-ruby-princess-coronavirus-test-bungle/12505072

Short quotes:

"A senior Australian Border Force (ABF) officer who allowed 2,700 people to disembark the Ruby Princess cruise ship mistakenly believed passengers displaying "flu-like symptoms" had tested negative to COVID-19, when they had instead tested negative for the common flu.

The ABC can reveal that Border Force command only realised the mistake more than 30 hours after passengers — including 13 who had been isolated in their cabins with fever — had left the ship.

The new revelations challenge Border Force Commissioner Michael Outram's assertion in March that NSW Health was responsible for allowing passengers to disembark".

 

[christodan]

Just watched it. And there were another two passengers on the program who said they were not going to pay $60- $100 to see the ships doctor.They can't see the irony that they have paid thousands for a cruise but refuse to pay for their health ( or to perhaps save someone else's life). 

Anyway, it looks like Princess are pretty much off the hook.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Did those two people get Covid-19? And if so, did they just keep on moving around the ship after they got symptoms?