Ruby Princess - Special Inquiry - Evidence To Date

[NSWP]

2 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

A wee Dram can help the conversation, to many wee Drams not so much

I am too heavy with the bottle, like 3 fingers.  No wonder my bottles of scotch evaporate quickly, I thought it was the summer heat.

[Blackduck59]

Must be the Angel's share Les😉

[Cyrix400]

54 minutes ago, NSWP said:

As a related comment. Do you know on Princess ships, the ship's doctors, generally two, operate as a private business. They are not directly employed by Princess, same with shop staff etc.  The doctors have to give a considerable commission from their income derived from passenger consultation fees to Carnival, they also pay a bond to get on the ship.  I was told that by a Princess insider, all top secret.  I am surprised this has not come up at the 'special enquiry.'   Perhaps it has, I am not following it much. I am waiting for Judgement Day.'👮‍♂️

 

Notwithstanding WHAT is the exact relationship between the ship doctors and the company, one would expect the Carnival Medical Group and the Chief Med Officer Dr Tarling to keep all ship medical staff kept up to date of the significant medical events affecting pax - e.g. the constantly changing criteria for suspected covid cases. And particularly so after the Diamond Princess Japan experience.

[NSWP]

17 minutes ago, Cyrix400 said:

 

Notwithstanding WHAT is the exact relationship between the ship doctors and the company, one would expect the Carnival Medical Group and the Chief Med Officer Dr Tarling to keep all ship medical staff kept up to date of the significant medical events affecting pax - e.g. the constantly changing criteria for suspected covid cases. And particularly so after the Diamond Princess Japan experience.

I totally agree, no excuses. An international company called VIKAND - Medical Solutions seems to be an employment agent for Maritime medical appointments, including 200 plus cruise ships. Not sure if they organise the doctors contracts on Princess ships.

Edited June 28, 2020 by NSWP

[possum52]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

Most of the docs I have seen have been South Africans. As was/is the female senior doc on Ruby.

My husband visited the medical centre on the Diamond a few years ago after stubbing his toe badly. The toe he injured already had an ingrown toenail so he was in a lot of pain. The doc he saw was a South African also. He did a procedure on the toe to relieve the pressure. Husband had excellent care and after a few days was walking properly. 
 

Leigh

[Ondine]

I thought I heard the doctor tell the commissioner that she was employed by Princess when she was being interviewed.  I could be wrong.

[banzaii]

3 hours ago, possum52 said:

BRANDEE, I think our flu vaccine is based on what strains are prevalent in the northern winter. 
 

Leigh

And vice versa.  Usually the vax uses 2 strains from other hemisphere flu season plus another "most likely" strain from this hemisphere prior season.

 

There is even variability of seasonal flu vax between different drug companies. 

 

Some of the effectiveness comes down to pure luck - what strains you have in your vaccine and what strains you are exposed to.

[Cyrix400]

1 hour ago, possum52 said:

My husband visited the medical centre on the Diamond a few years ago after stubbing his toe badly. The toe he injured already had an ingrown toenail so he was in a lot of pain. The doc he saw was a South African also. He did a procedure on the toe to relieve the pressure. Husband had excellent care and after a few days was walking properly. 
 

Leigh

 

No argument that all medical staff employed by Carnival various brands are well qualified and experienced  - and for some reason many of them are from South Africa.  They need preferably to be experienced  in emergency medicine.  And there is a link to a high level medical 'think tank' on land, if they need any specialised advice or guidance.

[BRANDEE]

6 hours ago, banzaii said:

And vice versa.  Usually the vax uses 2 strains from other hemisphere flu season plus another "most likely" strain from this hemisphere prior season.

 

There is even variability of seasonal flu vax between different drug companies. 

 

Some of the effectiveness comes down to pure luck - what strains you have in your vaccine and what strains you are exposed to.

Possum52 and banzali..

 

Just wondering if people who were up to date with all immunizations, especially influenza and pneumonia, fared better than those who did not in fighting covid . I know covid 19 is a different flu strain and covid pneumonia is viral not bacterial..but?? Here in NYC, the low income population had the largest number of fatalities and getting vaccinations is not priority due to health insurance. Hoping statistics regarding this is also being looked at. I feel that being up to date is what helped me and especially my husband fight it once we got it!

.

[Vader1111]

44 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Possum52 and banzali..

 

Just wondering if people who were up to date with all immunizations, especially influenza and pneumonia, fared better than those who did not in fighting covid . I know covid 19 is a different flu strain and covid pneumonia is viral not bacterial..but?? Here in NYC, the low income population had the largest number of fatalities and getting vaccinations is not priority due to health insurance. Hoping statistics regarding this is also being looked at. I feel that being up to date is what helped me and especially my husband fight it once we got it!

.

COVID-19 is not a "different flu strain", it's not a flu at all.

 

Being current on your vaccinations may prevent you from catching COVID-19 and the flu simultaneously, but it has zero impact on your body's ability to fight COVID-19.

[BRANDEE]

54 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

 

 

Being current on your vaccinations may prevent you from catching COVID-19 and the flu simultaneously, but it has zero impact on your body's ability to fight COVID-19.

Thanks for the info .. where did you see this?..My husband's specialist brought this idea up and said there wasn't any info one way or the other just yet. He was talking about investigating different avenues of why certain people survived and others did not.  Trying no to put "luck" into the conversation.

[Porky55]

4 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

5 hours ago, Vader1111 said:

Being current on your vaccinations may prevent you from catching COVID-19 and the flu simultaneously, but it has zero impact on your body's ability to fight COVID-19.

Thanks for the info .. where did you see this?..My husband's specialist brought this idea up and said there wasn't any info one way or the other just yet. He was talking about investigating different avenues of why certain people survived and others did not.  Trying no to put "luck" into the conversation.

BRANDEE - I agree with you entirely, there has been no definitive information anywhere that NOT GETTING THE FLU VACCINATION is a bad thing, in fact many health professionals strongly recommend that those in the “at risk groups” do get the flu vax.

I also think it will be a long time before anyone gets a chance to put together all the information surrounding this virus. (Part of its problem ) A flu vaccine and pneumonia Vax would have to benefit these groups surely?

 

[MicCanberra]

People should get the Flu vaccine, because it helps prevent catching a flu or if you do it is so much better to get over. 

While the Flu vaccine may not stop Covid 19 (not a flu), if you come in contact with it, but at least you don't need to worry about the flu and it certainly wouldn't hurt building up your immunities.

[Pushka]

I think the push to get Flu jabs was
 

1. Part of the usual winter incidence of flu and which does make many bedridden and obviously some deaths and

 

2. If you had the jab and then came down with flu symptoms (not just a cold but outright body aches, fevers etc) then it is more likely it is Covid and so people don't think they can just rest up with 'the flu' but know they should be isolated and tested for Covid and watch out for worsening symptoms. 

[NSWP]

I always get the flu jab, good insurance as you age.

[NSWP]

16 hours ago, Ondine said:

I thought I heard the doctor tell the commissioner that she was employed by Princess when she was being interviewed.  I could be wrong.

Maybe Princess does employ their doctors, not sure.  I know one doc i saw was ex south african army medical officer, probably a good background for a ships doc, having emergency trauma experience.

Edited June 28, 2020 by NSWP

[possum52]

8 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Possum52 and banzali..

 

Just wondering if people who were up to date with all immunizations, especially influenza and pneumonia, fared better than those who did not in fighting covid . I know covid 19 is a different flu strain and covid pneumonia is viral not bacterial..but?? Here in NYC, the low income population had the largest number of fatalities and getting vaccinations is not priority due to health insurance. Hoping statistics regarding this is also being looked at. I feel that being up to date is what helped me and especially my husband fight it once we got it!

.

BRANDEE, of the Australians onboard the Ruby, it was probably few if any who had had their flu immunisation for the coming season. I would hope those who were in the at risk age group were up todate with their pneumonia immunisation.

In Australia, the flu immunisation is free for the following - 

- children aged 6 months to under five years of age

- pregnant women

- people aged over 65

- Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people (6 months and over)

- people with chronic medical conditions.

 

As well, many workplaces provide the flu immunisation free or for a small charge and depending if your medical centre bulk bills or not, you may only pay for the cost of the vaccine - $20-$25 roughly. Many pharmacies also give the immunisation.

 

The medical fraternity as others have said above hope/believe that by having the flu immunisation will prevent people from having both the flu and Covid 19 at the same time which seems to be working here but of course that is also probably due to social isolating/lockdowns too. 

 

Leigh

[christodan]

18 minutes ago, possum52 said:

BRANDEE, of the Australians onboard the Ruby, it was probably few if any who had had their flu immunisation for the coming season.

 

Unfortunately the flu vax wasn't available in mid-March. So there would have been no one on board who would  had it. I think they were expecting to vax to come out late March, but even then there may have delays.

[By The Bay]

13 minutes ago, possum52 said:

BRANDEE, of the Australians onboard the Ruby, it was probably few if any who had had their flu immunisation for the coming season.

I doubt many Australians had the 2020 flu vaccine prior to their cruise on Ruby. It would have been difficult to have the flu shot for the 2020 flu season in Australia as the free vaccine was not released until 30 March. You could have paid for it from a Chemist, but they only received their vaccines around mid-March.

 

"Deliveries of government-funded influenza vaccines commenced on 30 March 2020."  Health NSW

[MicCanberra]

Flu vaccines would help against the flu, not Covid (which isn't a flu).

[Cyrix400]

53 minutes ago, possum52 said:

BRANDEE, of the Australians onboard the Ruby, it was probably few if any who had had their flu immunisation for the coming season. I would hope those who were in the at risk age group were up todate with their pneumonia immunisation.

 

 

And usually the flu vaccine for the current year is available in Australia late March - early April.  Not sure if it would have been available early March.

[Pushka]

I had the flu shot the first day it was available in SA and that was 30th March. 

[BRANDEE]

59 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Flu vaccines would help against the flu, not Covid (which isn't a flu).

Yes, I understand that  covid is not a flu. 

I was just relaying a conversation with my husband's lung specialist, who is trying to figure out why some of his patients with underlying lung problems survived their bout with covid, while others died.

He was gathering immunization records of his patients to try and form a theory/pattern. There was nothing to back him up at this point..too early to form any scientific conclusions.

He did see that patients with both flu and pneumonia up dated shots did much better. Also, some of those patients (with underlying lung issues) never had respiratory symptoms with covid.

My husband was treated from day two with mega doses of antibacterial drugs and breathing exercises and although very sick he never went into any severe respiratory/pneumonia symptoms.

In the end, it will take years to analyze all the stats to try and figure this disease out.

[BrissieB]

4 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I had the flu shot the first day it was available in SA and that was 30th March. 

There were also availability issues.  Initially only the over 65's were being administered.  I am eligible for the free flu shot due to other conditions and I was rescheduled 3 times due to availability.  I was unable to get it until late April.  At that point in time my doctor was recommending everyone get the flu shot this year.  The concerns about drain on the hospital system and adding covid cases to the usual flu ones were a big consideration.

 

[OzKiwiJJ]

Usually there are two versions of the flu virus. The first one is designed for younger people with healthy immune systems and comes out late March. The second one is "stronger" and better for Seniors. I contaced my GP when the first one was released this year but was told to wait until the second one came out.