Ruby Princess - Special Inquiry - Evidence To Date

[Cyrix400]

Inquiry - a short update from the last day of hearing, which I omitted to post:

 

- the  statements of some 225 Ruby Princess pax, given to the police inquiry, were provided to the Commission - the statements would not be made public, as these pax did not give evidence. However, the Commissioner indicated that if any of these pax , whilst not called to give evidence, wishes to have their statements made public, they are invited to indicate this to the Commission

 

-  it is not likely that other witnesses will be called - if any change the Commission will advise

-  in the week commencing 13 July the interested parties (i.e. counsel acting for Carnival, Health , Maritime Union etc) will be given the opportunity to address the Commissioner - to persuade him why he should - or should not - to adopt certain findings (i.e  I see this  as the opportunity to give everyone ' a fair go', afford due process and avoid 'ambushing' parties)

 

And though not directly related, this:

New South Wales also confirmed the 189 historic cruise ship cases being added to its total (mostly from Ruby Princess, of course).

“The cases were reported by NSW Health at the time of diagnosis, but were not included in NSW totals as they were on board the ship and not in NSW when diagnosed. The cases were not associated with any further transmissions in Australia as they were managed on board the cruise ship.”

 

[OzKiwiJJ]

Apparently they were cases among the crew which were diagnosed after all passengers had disembarked.

[Ondine]

I seem to remember that before she set sail from Port Kembla a lot of crew were taken ashore and hospitalised.  By then the virus had spread between many crew members.  Ruby left them behind.

[Docker123]

Not Ruby Princess, but Jetstar and/or NSW Health seem to have dropped the ball on this one. I wonder if the commissioner will take notice.

 

 

Passengers on a flight from Melbourne to Sydney last night disembarked without being screened by NSW Health officials, in a major breach of the state's coronavirus protocols.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286

Edited July 8, 2020 by Docker123

[Cyrix400]

54 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

Not Ruby Princess, but Jetstar and/or NSW Health seem to have dropped the ball on this one. I wonder if the commissioner will take notice.

 

 

Thinking about NSW Health and its role re Ruby Princess, it will be interesting to hear what submission will be made to the Commissioner by the Counsel for NSW Health.

And It looks like the final submissions  by all parties  will be starting next Wed 15 July, from 9.30 am

[mobiandy]

16 hours ago, Docker123 said:

Not Ruby Princess, but Jetstar and/or NSW Health seem to have dropped the ball on this one. I wonder if the commissioner will take notice.

 

 

Passengers on a flight from Melbourne to Sydney last night disembarked without being screened by NSW Health officials, in a major breach of the state's coronavirus protocols.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286

It's all Jetstar's fault that the passengers were not screened on arrival at Sydney Airport. Where have I heard a similar style of spin like this before I wonder?

[MicCanberra]

Cruise ships are like large floating aeroplanes with out all the space and services that cruises have.

[Blackduck59]

Sorry Mic, airplanes are like flying cruise ships without all the room, food or amenities 😁

[Cyrix400]

"Ruby Princess inquiry: NSW Health made ‘serious mistake’ when assessing travel history of passengers" 

  https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/15/ruby-princess-inquiry-nsw-health-made-serious-mistake-when-assessing-travel-history-of-passengers

"The steps NSW Health should have taken when the Ruby Princess docked"  (first 5 articles per months free)

https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-steps-nsw-health-should-have-taken-when-the-ruby-princess-docked-20200715-p55c69.html    

  

See above  links for summary of the final submissions made to the enquiry by the Counsel Assisting, yesterday, 15 July . The remaining   submissions will be made on Frid 17 July.

In essence, a 'group mistake' by various Health NSW staff  - various short quotes:

"New South Wales Health made a “serious mistake” in using an out-of-date arrival form template for the Ruby Princess" 

"What happened instead was a series of missteps stemming from the incorrect assessment of the ship as "low risk" as it approached Sydney, the inquiry heard – a decision Mr Beasley said was "a serious mistake".              "Commissioner Bret Walker said NSW Health's risk assessment process – in particular, the use of low, medium and high risk categories – was a "distraction" from the more important question: "what precautions are necessary?"

"NSW Health team should have boarded and tested everyone with symptoms."

"The inquiry heard there was “a very large noncompliance” with procedures because only 10 Covid-19 swabs were taken from sick passengers during the ship’s final leg to Sydney"

   (but the Commission acknowledged practical difficulty in sourcing swabs at that time).

 

[By The Bay]

20 minutes ago, Cyrix400 said:

"The steps NSW Health should have taken when the Ruby Princess docked"  (first 5 articles per months free)

https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-steps-nsw-health-should-have-taken-when-the-ruby-princess-docked-20200715-p55c69.html    

  

 

Thanks for the update Cyrix400.

 

If you use a "Incognito window" in Chrome, or the equivalent if using other browsers, you can get around the 5 a month limit.

[Cyrix400]

6 hours ago, By The Bay said:

Thanks for the update Cyrix400.

 

If you use a "Incognito window" in Chrome, or the equivalent if using other browsers, you can get around the 5 a month limit.

 

Thanks for this tip - useful!

[Vader1111]

On 7/16/2020 at 8:24 AM, By The Bay said:

Thanks for the update Cyrix400.

 

If you use a "Incognito window" in Chrome, or the equivalent if using other browsers, you can get around the 5 a month limit.

You can also reset the counter by deleting smh & theage cookies from your browser.

[christodan]

Well have a read of this from the Telegraph.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts/ruby-princess-inquiry-health-made-serious-mistake-with-old-protocols/news-story/21194844b704e15f1c4932813bcf6560

 

"The Ruby Princess operator has blasted “baseless attacks” by senior public officials on the honesty of the cruise ship’s captain and senior doctor over the coronavirus fiasco at a powerful inquiry." And there's more..

 

 

[Cyrix400]

And here is a good final summary of a number of things which came up at the enquiry during the weeks of  public hearings - link below.  Interesting read if you are interested  to wrap your head about some of the issues, before the report comes out by 14 August.  Sub-headings of the article:

- NSW Health 'serious mistake'

- The 'meaningless' risk grading (i.e. low, medium & high risk) when dealing with new coronavirus

- The testing delay

- The out of day disease log

- The on board medical advice

- What the ship doctor said

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/18/ruby-princess-inquiry-how-distractions-and-mistakes-led-to-a-catastrophic-covid-19-cluster

 

[By The Bay]

13 hours ago, christodan said:

Well have a read of this from the Telegraph.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts/ruby-princess-inquiry-health-made-serious-mistake-with-old-protocols/news-story/21194844b704e15f1c4932813bcf6560

 

"The Ruby Princess operator has blasted “baseless attacks” by senior public officials on the honesty of the cruise ship’s captain and senior doctor over the coronavirus fiasco at a powerful inquiry." And there's more..

 

 

I found this part of the article interesting in light of Mr Fuller's previous comments.

 

“The Police Commissioner’s statement casting doubt on the honesty of Commodore Pomata and Dr von Watzdorf was completely unjustified, and cannot have been based on any proper assessment of the evidence he claimed to have personally reviewed,” Mr McLure wrote in his closing submissions.

 

"The inquiry’s final report is due next month, and Mr Walker said he would consider whether it was appropriate to make findings about the police commissioner’s comments."

[christodan]

Re the Guardian article, I find it hard to believe that the passenger said that the doctor said ' you don't have coronavirus you only have the common cold'. I think she would have said 'you don't have influenza' as he was not tested for coronavirus. I wonder how much weight they put on passenger accounts which sound like he clearly misheard or misunderstood. 

 

I also do not believe that the ship's doctor said to Ressler 'the cruise ships must be stopped'. I recall seeing a part of the inquiry in the news when Walker said to Ressler about another statement she made "are you trying to mislead me?' so she is not a credible witness.

[christodan]

And another interesting article in the Guardian, how ships are ‘highly compliant with ill traveller procedures’

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/30/drill-on-cruise-ship-pandemics-before-ruby-princess-debacle-found-authorities-communications-robust

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, christodan said:

Re the Guardian article, I find it hard to believe that the passenger said that the doctor said ' you don't have coronavirus you only have the common cold'. I think she would have said 'you don't have influenza' as he was not tested for coronavirus. I wonder how much weight they put on passenger accounts which sound like he clearly misheard or misunderstood. 

 

I also do not believe that the ship's doctor said to Ressler 'the cruise ships must be stopped'. I recall seeing a part of the inquiry in the news when Walker said to Ressler about another statement she made "are you trying to mislead me?' so she is not a credible witness.

And I don't believe the story from one witness who claimed a waitress had sneezed in her face giving her the virus - which she came down with "days later".

 

Even if one of the crew had sneezed near her at that stage it would have been highly unlikely that crew members were affected that early. 

[christodan]

3 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

And I don't believe the story from one witness who claimed a waitress had sneezed in her face giving her the virus - which she came down with "days later".

Yeah 'sneezed in her face' - like the crew act like they have no manners.  The only people with no manners are the bogan aussies.

[NSWP]

20 minutes ago, christodan said:

Yeah 'sneezed in her face' - like the crew act like they have no manners.  The only people with no manners are the bogan aussies.

But this was a Princess Cruises vessel, not P&O Straya.🤐

[OzKiwiJJ]

6 minutes ago, NSWP said:

But this was a Princess Cruises vessel, not P&O Straya.🤐

There are plenty of bogans on Princess these days, unfortunately.

[NSWP]

Just now, OzKiwiJJ said:

There are plenty of bogans on Princess these days, unfortunately.

Amen to that, I have noted that these past few years, it was once a premier cruise line with some traditions, i.e. dress codes, conduct etc. Not so these days.  All about the $$$$.

[Cyrix400]

3 hours ago, christodan said:

And another interesting article in the Guardian, how ships are ‘highly compliant with ill traveller procedures’

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/30/drill-on-cruise-ship-pandemics-before-ruby-princess-debacle-found-authorities-communications-robust

 

Thanks for this article -  and in light of this the mistake of Health NSW in relation to Ruby Princess - (and notwithstanding the fast changing situation in the area of covid) should be regarded as  a 'serious mistake' - no way to sugar coat it. The Commissioner was not keen to characterise it as just 'a mistake', as submitted by the Counsel for Health in her final submission - although he recognised that it is 'a group mistake' i.e. that not one person was responsible for it (and certainly not only the distressed  witness Ms Ressler).

[christodan]

Yes Cyrix, I think if people die, then it's serious.

[Vader1111]

7 hours ago, christodan said:

Yes Cyrix, I think if people die, then it's serious.

Who died as a result of NSW Health letting the passengers off the ship?  Nobody - there have been no deaths from secondary cases (i.e. people who caught it from the disembarked passengers).  Don't get me wrong - it's only through good luck (and extremely poor management) that nobody died, but the fact remains that the NSW Health stuff-ups did not result in a single death.

 

On the contrary, the seriously mistaken non-decision may, however, have saved lives (by preventing further infections on board the ship).

Edited July 18, 2020 by Vader1111