Muster Drill

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

If one of the problems about having muster drills on the TV sets or apps is that people won't know where their actual muster station is, they could require guests to go to the muster stations first and have their cards scanned before going to their cabins.

That still does not deal with the part of the drill that is for the crew, getting (or as Cheng has said "herding") the passengers.

 

We have to get over seeing the muster drill as just a nuisance and realize that there actually could be an emergency such as the balcony fire on the Star Princess or the much more serious Costa Concordia.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

If one of the problems about having muster drills on the TV sets or apps is that people won't know where their actual muster station is, they could require guests to go to the muster stations first and have their cards scanned before going to their cabins.

Again, having passengers waltz into a muster location over an hour or two, possibly with a drink in hand, would not meet the definition of being "as realistic as possible", and unfortunately, in a realistic emergency, you would be packed in together.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

If I'm not mistaken there are also a lot of other drills for the crew. I do remember an announcement once to ignore the warning bells as it was only a drill for the crew. But, I assume this would be the only drill that the crew actually interacts with passengers.

 

Are crew members at all rated on how they perform during these drills?

There is a required drill for crew each week.  During the passenger muster drill, only those crew whose duties include getting the passengers to their muster locations (stairway guides,  elevator "monitors", doorway guides, muster station personnel, special needs muster team (usually including a nurse) will be utilized.  During the weekly crew drill for fire and emergency, nearly 100% of the crew will be called to their emergency stations, which is why it is typically done on a day and at a time when passenger count is minimum onboard.  So, in addition to the crew mentioned for the passenger muster drill, there will be the teams assigned to check every cabin to ensure it is empty, and after sweeping a section of deck, these teams will "collapse" down to the promenade deck clearing passageways and stairwells as they go.  Then there are the emergency teams:  fire teams (5-6 six man teams), security (to close off the "hot zone"), medical teams (medical staff plus stretcher teams), technical response team (carpenters, electricians, plumbers, refrigeration engineers) to secure power and ventilation in the affected zone, then the On Scene command team, the Bridge team (including the CD to make announcements, and the HD to coordinate the evacuation teams and their override keys), the Engineering team, the boat prep teams, life raft teams, environmental response team, and so on.  While the crew assigned to get the passengers to their muster locations therefore drill twice a week (if weekly embarkation), they only get "hands on" with the herd of cats once a week.

 

After every drill, there is a debrief with the supervisors and team leaders, and any deficiencies in performance of the crew are noted, and if it becomes a repeat problem with a particular crew member or team, they could be subject to extra training or even disciplinary action.

[ninjacat123]

To me, muster is comparable to the safety announcement that flight attendants do before a flight.  Knowing where the exit doors, especially in an emergency could be the difference between life and death. Knowing where to go to access the lifeboats, same thing.  I hope a way can be figured out that satisfies social distancing and the importance of muster. 

[coevan]

even before the virus people did not want to play by the rules, people come late, delaying the process for everyone else, drinks and cell phones in hand (not permissible). The faster we all cooperate the faster the drills ends

[lazydayz]

4 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

To me, muster is comparable to the safety announcement that flight attendants do before a flight.  Knowing where the exit doors, especially in an emergency could be the difference between life and death. Knowing where to go to access the lifeboats, same thing.  I hope a way can be figured out that satisfies social distancing and the importance of muster. 

 

 After watching the video, they could give each passenger a unique code.  You would then show up at your muster station and give them the code within a defined time period.  They already "check" you in at muster, so this should not be a heavy lift. 

 

As little attention as most people pay during the muster drill, I don't think you are really losing anything here. 

[pinto18]

In January on the Panorama we were woken late one night with crew pounding on our door to put our life jackets on...it didnt get as far as having to go to the muster station as the incident ( small fire below us ) was over by the time we ran out to the hallway ( in a panic) If it wasn't for the muster drill I wouldn't even know where the life jackets were! They were hidden away under the bed. Not to mention , how to put them on correctly ...locating the light thingy and the whistle...etc. Ive been to a zillion muster drills and usually dont pay a lot of attention, but now have a respect for them and understand  why they are important!

Edited May 22, 2020 by pinto18

[Joe817]

1 hour ago, pinto18 said:

In January on the Panorama we were woken late one night with crew pounding on our door to put our life jackets on...it didnt get as far as having to go to the muster station as the incident ( small fire below us ) was over by the time we ran out to the hallway ( in a panic) If it wasn't for the muster drill I wouldn't even know where the life jackets were! They were hidden away under the bed. Not to mention , how to put them on correctly ...locating the light thingy and the whistle...etc. Ive been to a zillion muster drills and usually don't pay a lot of attention, but now have a respect for them and understand  why they are important!

Excellent post! thanks for sharing! And spot on. 👍

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, lazydayz said:

 

 After watching the video, they could give each passenger a unique code.  You would then show up at your muster station and give them the code within a defined time period.  They already "check" you in at muster, so this should not be a heavy lift. 

 

As little attention as most people pay during the muster drill, I don't think you are really losing anything here. 

Read an earlier post by Chengkp75. What you are losing is this is the only drill for the crew that they actually get to work with passengers.

[grandmarnnurse]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:53 PM, Elaine5715 said:

Because people need a "muscle memory" of where to go to muster.  It isn't just about how to put on your vest. They want you to have been at least once to the physical part of the ship where you would be required to report 

This doesn’t hold true on the larger ships, as the muster drill is NOT held in the location you are to be, but either in the theater or MDR. On my last cruise in February, on the Glory, an older smaller ship, it was done on the deck. I have not had a muster on the deck before that since 2014.

[chengkp75]

33 minutes ago, grandmarnnurse said:

This doesn’t hold true on the larger ships, as the muster drill is NOT held in the location you are to be, but either in the theater or MDR. On my last cruise in February, on the Glory, an older smaller ship, it was done on the deck. I have not had a muster on the deck before that since 2014.

No, what you fail to understand is that that theater or MDR is the muster location,  the place you are to go to in an emergency.  Muster station does not have to be on deck under the boats, because the passenger muster is really not about the boats.  In an emergency, passengers will be called to their muster stations, even if the Captain knows there is no chance that they will ever get anywhere near a boat.  The muster drill is about accountability.  It is about having all the non-trained passengers in known locations, under crew control, so that emergency teams do not waste valuable time and resources looking for someone who may or may not be in danger.  While the card on your cabin door may give the actual boat number you are assigned to, it also lists the "muster location", or the place you are to report to in an emergency.

[wannagonow123]

Carnival has the worst muster drills. (and I do travel with other cruise lines). Some people do not close their traps to allow others to hear. Drinks are not collected. Heck, on our last cruise the Casino bar was still serving drinks as people were reporting to their stations. I have seen crewmembers installing the Hub on passenger's phones. We had a group of 30 people leave the outside muster because it was "too Hot" and not a single crew member said a word to them. Having only one person per cabin scan their card is also ridiculous. 

 

There are ways to do muster without crowds. Disable tv remotes where you cannot change tv channels and have use remote to interactivity state they watched the video, and they understand. (can be done in multi[le languages). Then make people take their life vests to a location to prove they know how to put it on, then go to muster station and swipe their cards.  Disable cards one hour prior to sailing. That gives people anywhere from 3-4 hours prior to sailing to accomplish their muster. Before the heavy drinking starts. 

 

By doing something like the above, Carnival would not have to shut down services. Smart individuals would do thier 3 step muster when they got on the ship, and not be interrupted with their fun. I know a limited amount of cruisers never buy anything. So first day, require folks to swipe their cards before dining in all venues. No drill, no eat until they complete the tasks.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

To me the answer is simple.  
1) you make a muster drill 5 min video that people have to watch before they get to the cruise ship (cruise line can give an access code that they can use to verify people watched it).  You don’t watch it, you don’t get on the ship

2) when you get on the ship and before sailing, you need to go to your assigned muster station and scan your sail and sign card at a card reader at the station. 

3) the ship doesn’t sail until everyone scans their card at the muster station

 

Its that simple.  It just takes a little innovation to achieve the same means (People have sat through the safety briefing and know where to go in case of emergency)

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

To me the answer is simple.  
1) you make a muster drill 5 min video that people have to watch before they get to the cruise ship (cruise line can give an access code that they can use to verify people watched it).  You don’t watch it, you don’t get on the ship

2) when you get on the ship and before sailing, you need to go to your assigned muster station and scan your sail and sign card at a card reader at the station. 

3) the ship doesn’t sail until everyone scans their card at the muster station

 

Its that simple.  It just takes a little innovation to achieve the same means (People have sat through the safety briefing and know where to go in case of emergency)

If anyone thinks that individual passengers sauntering into a muster location to get their cards scanned will look anything at all like it will when the entire ship is proceeding to their stations in an emergency, or that the crew will have experience in handling that large crowd and getting them to their stations, then I sincerely hope you never experience an emergency at sea, because it won't be pretty.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

If anyone thinks that individual passengers sauntering into a muster location to get their cards scanned will look anything at all like it will when the entire ship is proceeding to their stations in an emergency, or that the crew will have experience in handling that large crowd and getting them to their stations, then I sincerely hope you never experience an emergency at sea, because it won't be pretty.

And you think the muster stations today prepare people ?  I’ve seen people walk in late, come drunk, attend and not pay attention.

Muster drills need to rethink the way their done or you risk putting everyone at risk

[sanmarcosman]

13 minutes ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

Muster drills need to rethink the way their done or you risk putting everyone at risk

Muster drills can't think.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

25 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

Muster drills can't think.

Touché 

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

And you think the muster stations today prepare people ?  I’ve seen people walk in late, come drunk, attend and not pay attention.

Muster drills need to rethink the way their done or you risk putting everyone at risk

If you think muster drills are chaotic (not your word but it covers what you described) now, which I agree with, what do you think it would be like during a real life emergency, which hopefully never happens again?

[ninjacat123]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, the chaos of a typical muster drill will show passengers what an emergency will be like, and give crew the opportunity to experience the selfishness, ingratitude, and recklessness of actual passengers.  Personally, I've thought for years that muster drill should be stricter and if needed longer, in order to train some of the people who don't give a thought about their own safety or the safety of others, to take some of that responsibility away from those of us who train every week to keep the a-holes safe.

I always thought muster was about the lifeboat's location but chengkp75 made it clear how it's about the crew experiencing the "herding" of all the passengers at once into a designated location, not necessarily the lifeboat area  and for the passengers to be "herded" into said location and being accounted for. Thanks chengkp75 for spelling it out!

Edited May 23, 2020 by ninjacat123

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

I always thought muster was about the lifeboat's location but chengkp75 made it clear how it's about the crew experiencing the "herding" of all the passengers at once into a designated location, not necessarily the lifeboat area  and for the passengers to be "herded" into said location and being accounted for. Thanks chengkp75 for spelling it out!

Quite welcome.  What happens in an emergency on a ship, is that the alarm is sounded (one of the "code" messages) and the applicable crew respond to the emergency.  If the On-Scene Commander (which was my emergency duty for most of my time on cruise ships), feels that the emergency can be handled quickly and with the resources present, that is the end of it.  If he/she feel that the emergency is spreading, and significant passenger areas will be affected, he/she will discuss this with the Captain, and at the Captain's discretion, the signal for passenger muster will be made.  Again, this is to get the passengers to known locations and under crew control, so they aren't opening a door and finding a fire, and so that the passengers are counted, so that teams can be sent looking for the missing, if needed.  This again can be the end of the situation, much like the Star Princess fire, where the passengers were at their muster stations for hours, but the Captain never once had an intention of sending them to the boats and abandoning the ship.  Only if the emergency gets away from the crew, will the Captain decide whether to send the passengers to their boats and get them away from the ship.  During the emergency, and the passenger muster, crew will have been prepping the boats for launching, whether they are ever intended to be used or not.  What a lot of passengers don't understand is that the signal for passenger muster is not the signal for abandon ship, it is the signal for "fire and general emergency".  There is no signal for putting the passengers into the boats, that is merely an announcement from the Bridge.  Even if passengers are put into the boats and launched, 95% of the crew are still at their emergency stations (only the 2-3 crew assigned as each boat's crew will leave with the passengers), where they will stay until the passengers are away from the ship, and if the Captain feels it is hopeless, he will signal "abandon ship" (one prolonged blast on the whistle), and the crew will leave their emergency stations and proceed to their abandon ship stations.

[Joe817]

Fascinating read Chief! Thanks for the insight! I can only imagine the ensuing chaos in the event of a real, dire emergency, with several thousand panicked passengers going berserk. 👍

[ninjacat123]

@chengkp75 reading your last post made it so real, I got shivers. Thanks for the great detail on a situation I hope to never experience!

[coevan]

5 hours ago, wannagonow123 said:

Carnival has the worst muster drills. (and I do travel with other cruise lines). Some people do not close their traps to allow others to hear. Drinks are not collected. Heck, on our last cruise the Casino bar was still serving drinks as people were reporting to their stations.

 

 

15 cruises I have never experienced anything like what you are saying. all bars are closed and do not serve at least 15 minutes before muster. I have seen crew member ask guests to put their drink down somewhere. I have also witnessed crew asking people to put their cells down. It's not a joke and Carnival does the best they can with unruly people

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I guess it is not so "simple". Like most passengers, I consider the muster drill a pain in the butt. But I do realize it is not only a requirement, but necessary even if it was not required. It's not like an airplane where we are already at our meeting place in case of an emergency.

 

 

That was funny...

[lyannea]

I’ve always thought that the best time to have the muster drill is at check in.

 

They could have a room set up for 100-200 people before you check in. 
after the drill, you check in, with a stamp saying you attended the drill.

and

you DON’T get your room key, till you go to the Muster station to pick it up

and

everyone in your cabin HAS to pick up keys at the same time.

 

No key, no drinkie 🍸 🍹 🍷 🍺