Antarctica on Westerdam....in 2022? How?

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Thanks for weighing in on this.

 

With those distances I’m scratching my head trying to imagine what one would see and how it can be legitimately called an Antarctica cruise. Wouldn’t that make it too far north for iceberg alley?

Bergs would be probably few and far between (not a polar expert, though), but bergy bits and growlers would likely be around.  60*S is the rough limit of the east flowing "Antarctic Circumpolar Current" where bergs are known to drift, the most useful for this cruise would be those entering from the Weddell Sea, following the Antarctic Peninsula, and then starting to drift eastward towards Coronation and South Sandwich.  It may be that the seal and penguin populations on these islands would be the major "arctic experience".

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

 

There's no question that a trip to Antarctica aboard an expedition ship is pricey, but I don't think it's necessarily true that there's a solo supplement.  There are some expedition ships, like the Nat Geo Explorer, that have cabins for singles. 

 

The reason for taking an expedition ship to Antarctica is to have a unique experience, one that cannot be replicated on a drive-by.   The beauty of the area is beyond extraordinary, and getting to do things like be up close to the ice at sea level in Zodiacs and kayaks is unbelievable.   And then of course there are the up close experiences with the fauna.  And not having a set itinerary, so the Captain can just decide to follow a bunch of killer whales for several hours as they try to chase down a minke whale for breakfast, and you feel like you are living in an episode of National Geographic.   Since you said above that you don't have a great interest in those things, it would be hard to justify the expense, even without a solo supplement.

 

For us, the expedition trip that we took to Antarctica truly was the trip of a lifetime.  I hate to use a cliche like that, but it was an incomparable trip, period.  We love history, art, museums, love visiting Italy (I mention that because of your interest), but Antarctica is absolutely in a category all its own.

 

If the new large-ship drive-by itineraries don't go south far enough to sail along the Antarctic Peninsula, I don't know how much of an "Antarctic experience" that really will be.  They won't even be near the continent. 

 

I'm not trying to talk you into doing an expedition, just pointing out that you may not really get to "scratch your itch."

 

Good luck with, and enjoy, whatever you decide!

 

Well, there you go again, making me think....🤔. Sorry, long post follows, but I've got time on my hands, lol.

 

I'm finding that the more I travel, the pickier I am about trips and itineraries. When I had been fewer places, it was easy to just say "Looks good, book it!".  But now I find myself endlessly comparing itineraries and modes of travel for the 'best' experience. Sometimes it can be a little paralyzing.

 

Since you know my thoughts on Greenland, I'll share that my HAL itinerary was of course canceled (August 2020). I didn't like any of HAL's alternatives for 2021 and had tentatively booked an itinerary on Oceania Sirena that was NEARLY ideal, but expensive and lacked the day of cruising Prince William Sound. Just a week ago, I saw an itinerary on Hurtigruten's Fram (one of their expedition ships) that was three fewer days but about the same cost as Oceania. As actually getting to set foot on Greenland was important to me, and I believe an expedition-style ship is more likely to get me to the two Greenland ports that are close to Viking ruins, I booked it. But still no day cruising the Sound. On paper, the Oceania cruise is arguably the one with the better itinerary -- but it is not better for me. (Bonus: when I called Hurtigruten to reserve I found out the cruise was on sale, so it is now about 30% cheaper than the Oceania cruise .... That will enable me to spend a few days in Iceland after the cruise ends. )

 

I say all of this by way of acknowledging that I consider a lot of angles. Cost is one of them as a solo -- not just overall cost, but value for me. Experience is a biggie, but I also look at how close something is to my own wheelhouse of interests. I am interested in Vikings, and in particular the Vikings of Greenland and Iceland. I am not particularly interested in glaciers, but since they are included, I'll enjoy them.

 

Having seen some of your stupendous photos, I can't help thinking you are more moved by the natural world than I am. I really think this cruise is a good way for me to test the waters, so to speak. If Antarctica really moves me, then perhaps in future I will save the pennies up for an expedition cruise. 

[cruisemom42]

26 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Any chance that you can change your cruise to the December, 2020, date should HAL resume their sailings?  You would reach Antarctica prior to January 1st.  We were on the December 18, 2019, Zaandam cruise, and we arrived in Antarctica about December 26th, if my memory is correct.  It is something to see if you can make it happen.

 

I honestly think, based on what the Chief said, that this is the same itinerary HAL has been doing for the last couple of years. All of them say "Antarctic cruising" and include wording such as "Spend four full days cruising the most scenic routes around the Antarctic Peninsula—more than on any other cruise line. Onboard naturalists will share insights throughout your journey."

 

They specifically mention the following: Palmer archipelago sailing, Dallmann Bay, Cuverville island (gentoo penguins), Paradise harbor (gentoo & chinstrap penguins).

 

It is the same description for all of the Antarctica cruises -- from November 2020 through the January 5, 2022 one that I have reserved.

 

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I honestly think, based on what the Chief said, that this is the same itinerary HAL has been doing for the last couple of years. All of them say "Antarctic cruising" and include wording such as "Spend four full days cruising the most scenic routes around the Antarctic Peninsula—more than on any other cruise line. Onboard naturalists will share insights throughout your journey."

 

They specifically mention the following: Palmer archipelago sailing, Dallmann Bay, Cuverville island (gentoo penguins), Paradise harbor (gentoo & chinstrap penguins).

 

It is the same description for all of the Antarctica cruises -- from November 2020 through the January 5, 2022 one that I have reserved.

 

 

Actually, I didn't look at the descriptions of the "antarctic experience", but I can guarantee that the 2021 and 2022 cruises go nowhere near the Palmer Archipelago, or any of those listed locations, as they are all south of 60*S.  I believe that the December 2020 is the last one that HAL can do under the ship's previous polar rating, and would in fact visit those locations if they are listed on the itinerary.

[cruisemom42]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, I didn't look at the descriptions of the "antarctic experience", but I can guarantee that the 2021 and 2022 cruises go nowhere near the Palmer Archipelago, or any of those listed locations, as they are all south of 60*S.  I believe that the December 2020 is the last one that HAL can do under the ship's previous polar rating, and would in fact visit those locations if they are listed on the itinerary.

 

But the new ruling doesn't kick in until January 2022, not January 2021?

 

Or are you saying that Westie's polar rating expires in 2021?

 

I am confused...

 

[rafinmd]

I think what Chief is saying is that Westie's polar rating expires 12/31/20.  I believe it is different for each ship based on the ship's last drydock, and Westie's last drydock just made the last recertification possible under those rules.

 

Roy

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

I think what Chief is saying is that Westie's polar rating expires 12/31/20.  I believe it is different for each ship based on the ship's last drydock, and Westie's last drydock just made the last recertification possible under those rules.

 

Roy

 

Thanks; that would make sense.

 

In which case it is disturbing that they are, in effect, engaging in false advertising with their itinerary descriptions for 2021 and 2022. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by cruisemom42

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But the new ruling doesn't kick in until January 2022, not January 2021?

 

Or are you saying that Westie's polar rating expires in 2021?

 

I am confused...

 

 

14 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

I think what Chief is saying is that Westie's polar rating expires 12/31/20.  I believe it is different for each ship based on the ship's last drydock, and Westie's last drydock just made the last recertification possible under those rules.

 

Roy

Yep, there is a "drop dead date" of Jan 2022, if I remember right, but any ship built before 2017 loses its polar certificate at the next "intermediate or special survey" after 2017, so each ship tends to have a different date when it has to stop cruising in Arctic areas. 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, rafinmd said:

If Westie does go in 2021 try to follow it on Cruisemapper and see what you think of the route.  If you do go and get a bit of a taste, you can then decide if you want to repeat via the expedition ship.

 

 

This is a great idea -- if Westerdam is truly affected by these changes, the 2021 itinerary I was originally booked on would see changes, presumably. I will follow along -- assuming, that is, the cruise actually happens. 

[Storylady]

15 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This is a great idea -- if Westerdam is truly affected by these changes, the 2021 itinerary I was originally booked on would see changes, presumably. I will follow along -- assuming, that is, the cruise actually happens. 

If you look at the Westerdam’s interactive map, they list going to Palmer Station, Dallman Strait and Paradise Harbor. Having compared my experience of cruising Antarctica in the Prinsendam to cruising on the Amsterdam. I would say that you will have a nice Antarctic experience unless the weather foul. The Westerdam definitely should be able to cruise Bismarck Strait to pick up Palmer Station staff. They definitely should be able to do Gerlache Strait. But if not they will cruise by Deception Island and King George Island, etc.using the Dallman Strait. Probably won’t go into Antarctic Sound as it is often clogged with ice. 
 

As for history, you will get plenty of nice lectures about the history of exploration of Antarctica which is definitely interesting. They  won’t be able to sail through many of the small channels such Errera of Lemaire, but you will get some good photos of the Antarctic peninsula. I would go for it as it will be less expensive for a single than going on a small cruise line such as Azamara.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Storylady said:

If you look at the Westerdam’s interactive map, they list going to Palmer Station, Dallman Strait and Paradise Harbor. Having compared my experience of cruising Antarctica in the Prinsendam to cruising on the Amsterdam. I would say that you will have a nice Antarctic experience unless the weather foul. The Westerdam definitely should be able to cruise Bismarck Strait to pick up Palmer Station staff. They definitely should be able to do Gerlache Strait. But if not they will cruise by Deception Island and King George Island, etc.using the Dallman Strait. Probably won’t go into Antarctic Sound as it is often clogged with ice. 
 

As for history, you will get plenty of nice lectures about the history of exploration of Antarctica which is definitely interesting. They  won’t be able to sail through many of the small channels such Errera of Lemaire, but you will get some good photos of the Antarctic peninsula. I would go for it as it will be less expensive for a single than going on a small cruise line such as Azamara.

It's not a question of whether the ship can cruise in the straits and among the islands.  When she loses her polar certificate at the next drydock, she will not be allowed to sail anywhere south of 60* S.

[Storylady]

24 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's not a question of whether the ship can cruise in the straits and among the islands.  When she loses her polar certificate at the next drydock, she will not be allowed to sail anywhere south of 60* S.

I realize that. Since they were advertising Antarctic experience and mentioned Palmer Station and Paradise Harbor, I figured that their certification still allowed them to go. After all one of the huge Princess ship (Sapphire) has for cruises scheduled for Antarctica from December through January. HAL has only one and probably because her certification will expire after that cruise

 

[Turtles06]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Having seen some of your stupendous photos, I can't help thinking you are more moved by the natural world than I am. I really think this cruise is a good way for me to test the waters, so to speak. If Antarctica really moves me, then perhaps in future I will save the pennies up for an expedition cruise. 

 

Thank you for your very kind words!    

 

I do hope this HAL "test" cruise will be a good one for you for this part of the world.  And congrats on arranging that Hurtigruten cruise (especially with that great deal!).  I recall how much effort you put into figuring out what would  work best for you re Greenland (as of course you should have).  Enjoy! 

[cruisemom42]

Well, there you have it. Clear as mud as to whether HAL is playing fast and loose with the truth in the cruise description or not....

 

One thing I can say for certain is that I enjoy discussing future cruises more on this board than anywhere else on this site. Clearly there are a lot of real travel and adventure lovers here. I really thank all of you for your input.

 

 

[asebastian]

Screenshot of the track the good ship Zaandam took in Antarctica during our Jan 2019 cruise from Buenos Aires, for those who may be interested. We spent a total of 4 days cruising in and around the Palmer Archipelago and nearby islands.

[whogo]

2022 is long way off. I would wait until cruising resumes before looking for a cruise and then I would check the luxury lines, too, something of value may come up.  

[drowelf]

We are looking at a shorter cruise out of BA on Celebrity for our second trip to Antarctica. This one departs in Jan 2022 and lists the following days in Antarctica. We want something shorter and we did not want to do the long trip down Chile again. It hits Punta Arenas and the Falklands too. 

 

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

SCHOLLART CHANNEL,ANTARCTICA

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

PARADISE BAY, ANTARCTICA

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

GERLACHE STRAIT

Day 8, Sun, Feb 6, 2022

ELEPHANT ISLAND, ANTARCTICA

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by drowelf

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, drowelf said:

We are looking at a shorter cruise out of BA on Celebrity for our second trip to Antarctica. This one departs in Jan 2022 and lists the following days in Antarctica. We want something shorter and we did not want to do the long trip down Chile again. It hits Punta Arenas and the Falklands too. 

 

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

SCHOLLART CHANNEL,ANTARCTICA

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

PARADISE BAY, ANTARCTICA

Day 7, Sat, Feb 5, 2022

GERLACHE STRAIT

Day 8, Sun, Feb 6, 2022

ELEPHANT ISLAND, ANTARCTICA

 

 

Is that on Silhouette, or one of the Celebrity expedition ships? 

 

Because if it is Silhouette, I'd have the same question I posed above regarding the POLAR initiative and whether these ships can actually take us where they say they will...

 

[AlanF65]

60th south is the blue circle with 60

[Turtles06]

58 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Is that on Silhouette, or one of the Celebrity expedition ships? 

 

Because if it is Silhouette, I'd have the same question I posed above regarding the POLAR initiative and whether these ships can actually take us where they say they will...

 

 

It's the Silhouette.  And that's of course exactly the question you should have, since the itinerary shows them going south of 60 degrees S.     

 

Separately, I will say that Celebrity's S-class ships are beautiful, the Silhouette especially so.  But Celebrity is very much into class distinctions now, and has restricted certain previously-public spaces to suite guests only.  One thing that really impressed me about our Viking Passage cruise on HAL was that the bow was opened to everyone on the sails into and out of every port.  I truly loved that.   (I don't know if that was a one-off for that cruise.) 

[rafinmd]

4 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

One thing that really impressed me about our Viking Passage cruise on HAL was that the bow was opened to everyone on the sails into and out of every port.  I truly loved that.   (I don't know if that was a one-off for that cruise.) 

I think "every port" was a one-off.  It's routine to open it for areas of special scenic interest but every port does not sound normal.  I was impressed on the Grand South America on the Prinsendam that it (select areas ) was open even though there's a lot of machinery on that deck unlike other HAL shps.

 

Roy

Edited July 6, 2020 by rafinmd

[KirkNC]

On all three. HAL trips we have taken to Antarctica they have opened the bow for everyone to use during our time in Antarctica.

[drowelf]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Is that on Silhouette, or one of the Celebrity expedition ships? 

 

Because if it is Silhouette, I'd have the same question I posed above regarding the POLAR initiative and whether these ships can actually take us where they say they will...

 

It is the Silhouette and I do have the questions, but they are offering it as of right now. I would presume that they would have their permits all in order before they could offer the cruise, as otherwise this could be an actionable 'bait and switch' type transaction.

 

Also I provided some bad information, its stops in Ushuaia and not Puerto Arenas. Sorry about that. 

[cruisemom42]

28 minutes ago, drowelf said:

It is the Silhouette and I do have the questions, but they are offering it as of right now. I would presume that they would have their permits all in order before they could offer the cruise, as otherwise this could be an actionable 'bait and switch' type transaction.

 

Also I provided some bad information, its stops in Ushuaia and not Puerto Arenas. Sorry about that. 

 

Sounds like you have more faith than I do -- I hope you're right, but I have this suspicion that they will change it at the last minute (e.g., too late to bail) and claim the change is for other reasons like weather, or...? 

 

Much of my faith in the integrity of the cruise lines has been tested this year, I'm afraid. 

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

 

It's the Silhouette.  And that's of course exactly the question you should have, since the itinerary shows them going south of 60 degrees S.     

 

Separately, I will say that Celebrity's S-class ships are beautiful, the Silhouette especially so.  But Celebrity is very much into class distinctions now, and has restricted certain previously-public spaces to suite guests only.  One thing that really impressed me about our Viking Passage cruise on HAL was that the bow was opened to everyone on the sails into and out of every port.  I truly loved that.   (I don't know if that was a one-off for that cruise.) 

I looked up Silhouette in the DNV database (her class society).  I see that her certificate of class comes due in July of 2021, so that is when any older Polar Class certificate would become invalid, but I don't even see one of the older Polar Class notations in her certificates.  So, I would be very leery of whether this vessel could actually sail to the destinations it is scheduled for.