Antarctica on Westerdam....in 2022? How?

[RuthC]

24 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I could have sworn the HAL Prinsendam went there every summer as well as Princess in either June or July. 

I don't know about every summer, but I know I went to Spitzbergen on the Prinsendam one summer. It was a fantastic experience. 
We also made it to the polar ice cap, and were able to see the front of the ship actually in the ice. So exciting! 

[USN59-79]

We visited Antarctica late December, 2003 on the Amsterdam.  On December 27 we saw Palmer Station and Anvers Island; December 28 Deception Island, and December 29 we cruised by Elephant, Paulet, and Deception Islands.  My map of Antarctica shows that these are about 62 and 63 degrees South Longitude.  It was a wonderful experience.  At times we were pushing through the ice.  We had an ice pilot on board to assist.  There were shipboard presentations on Shackleton's explorations and I don't remember if we were given or bought an excellent book with photos of his expedition.  We saw icebergs much larger than the ship in various shades of blue and green.  The sun went down about 2 AM and came back up about 20 minutes later.  Saw seals and penguins floating by on chunks of ice and a penguin colony on one of the islands.  Elephant Island was interesting as it was just stone and ice, but was where the Shackleton crew were marooned until they were rescued a few months later.

All in all, it was probably the best cruise we ever took and we were fortunate to have blue skies and calm seas the whole time.  I always felt that after that trip, we never had to see Alaska again.  However, 60 degrees wouldn't do it, but two more degrees South would make all the difference.

[Mandalay1903]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I could have sworn the HAL Prinsendam went there every summer as well as Princess in either June or July.

Veendam is scheduled to sail there on a July 2021 itinerary...

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Mandalay1903 said:

Veendam is scheduled to sail there on a July 2021 itinerary...

 

I doubt that very much would occur.  July is Winter time in the Southern Hemisphere and is not a time when a cruise ship would be sailing those waters around Antarctica.  

[RuthC]

1 hour ago, Mandalay1903 said:

Veendam is scheduled to sail there on a July 2021 itinerary...

 

14 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I doubt that very much would occur.  July is Winter time in the Southern Hemisphere and is not a time when a cruise ship would be sailing those waters around Antarctica.  

I believe Mandalay is referring to Spitzbergen. Poster is replying to a post about that itinerary. 

[Mandalay1903]

Yes, Spitzbergen.  Thanks for the clarification, RuthC!

[KirkNC]

We went there (Svalbard) on an expedition cruise with Hurtengruten.  It was great, we tried to circumnavigate the island but there was too much ice so we spent 10 days exploring.  It was nice, saw polar bears, walrus, lots of whales.

[tupper10]

North of 60 degrees you will see only ocean so to say you are visiting Antarctica in any sense of the word is deceptive.  We did an expedition cruise with Silversea but the prices are now double what we paid. We thought this cruise would offer us some of the 'sights' but no landings, it seems we will not even see the sights - so if the restriction is accurate we will cancel this cruise.  

[Brewgirl1]

Polar Bears in Antarctica?? I don't think so.

[asebastian]

16 minutes ago, Brewgirl1 said:

Polar Bears in Antarctica?? I don't think so.

Post says Svalbard...

I think cross-posts in this thread about Arctic and Antarctic experiences are starting to confuse people!

[Mandalay1903]

On 7/7/2020 at 1:38 PM, Mandalay1903 said:

I posed the polar certification question to my PCC (the remaining PCCs are now working 32-hour weeks) and she had to forward it to her supervisor to research. I'm interested to see how they respond.

 

On 7/7/2020 at 3:55 PM, tupper10 said:

Please let us know the answer you get re these cruises. I have a reservation but since it is so far in advance I will keep it for now and cancel if we can't get south of 60 degrees.  

 

Following up regarding the Jan 5, 2022 South America and Antarctica cruise on the Westerdam that we had been discussing. I heard back from my PCC just now. She said her supervisor had reached out to the HAL Fleet Dept. and received the following response:

 

“We will not have any issues with the ship’s certificate for the 2022 season”

 

I'll leave it to the other cruise critics to debate how HAL will achieve any necessary certificate clearance for the Westerdam.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Mandalay1903

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Mandalay1903 said:

 

 

Following up regarding the Jan 5, 2022 South America and Antarctica cruise on the Westerdam that we had been discussing. I heard back from my PCC just now. She said her supervisor had reached out to the HAL Fleet Dept. and received the following response:

 

“We will not have any issues with the ship’s certificate for the 2022 season”

 

I'll leave it to the other cruise critics to debate how HAL will achieve any necessary certificate clearance for the Westerdam.

Looking at Westerdam in Lloyd's Register, I don't see any polar notation in her class description, nor do I see any polar class certificate at all.  Admittedly, I am using a limited access facility to Lloyd's, but it is interesting that her notation does not include a polar rating.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Looking at Westerdam in Lloyd's Register, I don't see any polar notation in her class description, nor do I see any polar class certificate at all.  Admittedly, I am using a limited access facility to Lloyd's, but it is interesting that her notation does not include a polar rating.

 

Do you happen to know if any of HAL's ships include a polar notation? 

 

 

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Do you happen to know if any of HAL's ships include a polar notation? 

 

 

No, would have to search the LR database ship by ship, but none of the ships which were built before 2017 (all but Nieuw Statendam) would have the new Polar Code classification, and all of them have had or will have a "special survey" between 2017 and the end of 2020, so any polar notation or certificate would become invalid.

[LDEE]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:51 PM, cruisemom42 said:

I've read for several years now that starting January 1, 2022 the larger cruise ships that do "drive by" Antarctica cruises will no longer be able to offer them. On the strength of this I booked an itinerary for January 2021 on Westerdam thinking it may be my last chance to do this cruise without investing in the hefty cost of the expedition vessels.

 

Needless to say I've been losing hope of a January 2021 sailing due to COVID (and even if the sailing takes place, not sure I would feel safe...).  Yet a few weeks ago when I went looking at itineraries to try to figure out what to do about that, lo and behold I found a number of larger ships STILL OFFERING these itineraries in January 2022 -- including Westerdam, Celebrity's Silhouette (larger still) and Princess' Sapphire Princess.

 

How can this be?  Other than a poster or two here on Cruise Critic, there seems to be an absence of clear information on the Polar Code's impact to larger cruise ships. I do understand there are two categories of requirements, those that are environmentally-based (which already went into effect I believe) and those that are safety based.

 

Now as I cannot believe that all of these large ships have had the necessary hull-strengthening done, I am wondering what gives?  The alternatives seem to be:

• For some reason the hull requirement has been rolled back or further delayed.
• Large cruise lines are ignorant of the ruling (impossible to believe) or are simply ignoring it.
• Cruisers are being lied to when the description says that we will have "expedition cruising in the Antarctic peninsula" on our cruises.
• Past interpretations posted here on CC of what the changes would entail were incorrect.

 

Having found a good deal on the January 2022 cruise on Westerdam, I went ahead with a reservation. But I would be very curious to find out exactly what is going on. (I am still holding on to the 2021 for the time being "just in case".) 

 

I will be most unhappy if I am told 3 months out by HAL that the itinerary has changed due to "new" requirements -- which have been known since 2017 at least. That's a bait and switch that would be difficult to gloss over. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this situation? I've already read a number of online articles about this and feel very little wiser.

 

 

 

We have reservations on Celebrity Silhouette for Feb 2022 and have the same concerns.  If we can't sail south of the 60th parallel that would effectively leave out the Antarctic peninsula - at least from what I can see on a map.  Very difficult to get any correct information on this topic.  One thing for sure, they are not going to re-enforce the hull of the Silhouette.

[KirkNC]

If this turns out like I think it will (no actual visit to Antarctica), isn’t it fraud by the industry?

[Turtles06]

21 minutes ago, LDEE said:

We have reservations on Celebrity Silhouette for Feb 2022 and have the same concerns.  If we can't sail south of the 60th parallel that would effectively leave out the Antarctic peninsula - at least from what I can see on a map.  Very difficult to get any correct information on this topic.  One thing for sure, they are not going to re-enforce the hull of the Silhouette.

You are correct — you will not reach the Antarctic Peninsula if you can’t sail south of 60*.

 

I hope that you, the OP, and everyone else contemplating these cruises will be able to get a straight answer from the cruise lines. 

[Mandalay1903]

27 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

If this turns out like I think it will (no actual visit to Antarctica), isn’t it fraud by the industry?

I appreciate your point Kirk. I don't see it as industry fraud if there's no intent to deceive. The three cruise lines may very well believe and expect that they, and their industry, will have this certification issue resolved prior to that upcoming cruising season.

 

I'm sure this you this, but the cruise contract with HAL gives them the right to change the full itinerary, including embarkation/disembarkation port, even during the course of the cruise.

 

Also meantime, I have the full right to cancel for any reason without loss of funds until sometime in October 2021.  I have not committed any funds.

 

Prior to making final payment, I intend to research the polar certification issue again, Being much closer to the cruise date at that time I expect we'll find a solid answer not just speculation. If they won't have an actual visit to Antarctica I might still go because I really like the South American part of the itinerary and they might add in something else of interest during that 4-5 day part of the itinerary. Buyer beware, but I don't see industry fraud here.

 

All the above assumes that we're back to cruising like normal again by then and they don't start doing some silly things like selling, recycling or rerouting the Westerdam, or eliminating these longer cruises and their interesting and diverse itineraries. It's a long time away and a lot will happen between now and then.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, LDEE said:

We have reservations on Celebrity Silhouette for Feb 2022 and have the same concerns.  If we can't sail south of the 60th parallel that would effectively leave out the Antarctic peninsula - at least from what I can see on a map.  Very difficult to get any correct information on this topic.  One thing for sure, they are not going to re-enforce the hull of the Silhouette.

 

Hopefully we can all stay connected and share info. 

 

While I am not necessarily convinced there is fraud involved at this point, if the cruise lines do continue to advertise the specific destinations mentioned (south of 60th) and it is shown that the Polar Code does still apply, my "faith" such as it is in their transparency will definitely be very eroded....

 

 

[Cruisegroover]

Thanks to everyone for their inputs. I too am interested in the outcome. I had booked Volendam for Jan 21 but cancelled a few months back due to an indefinite international travel ban on us Australians.

 

I am looking around for a replacement cruise including Princess. Princess has a departure in Dec 21 so technically could still go below 60 degrees but I doubt Sapphire would have any polar certification having spent most of her time in Australia/Asia regions.

 

So if I find anything will certainly post it.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Cruisegroover

[Mandalay1903]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Hopefully we can all stay connected and share info. 

Totally agree, and I really don't think that HAL is "out to get us". This is a very good topic with good information shared.  I hope we can stay connected and monitor any changes for the Westerdam and for this cruise.  Most importantly, I hope that by January 2022 we can all get back to cruising the way we once knew.

[KirkNC]

15 hours ago, Mandalay1903 said:

I appreciate your point Kirk. I don't see it as industry fraud if there's no intent to deceive. The three cruise lines may very well believe and expect that they, and their industry, will have this certification issue resolved prior to that upcoming cruising season.

 

I'm sure this you this, but the cruise contract with HAL gives them the right to change the full itinerary, including embarkation/disembarkation port, even during the course of the cruise.

 

Also meantime, I have the full right to cancel for any reason without loss of funds until sometime in October 2021.  I have not committed any funds.

 

Prior to making final payment, I intend to research the polar certification issue again, Being much closer to the cruise date at that time I expect we'll find a solid answer not just speculation. If they won't have an actual visit to Antarctica I might still go because I really like the South American part of the itinerary and they might add in something else of interest during that 4-5 day part of the itinerary. Buyer beware, but I don't see industry fraud here.

 

All the above assumes that we're back to cruising like normal again by then and they don't start doing some silly things like selling, recycling or rerouting the Westerdam, or eliminating these longer cruises and their interesting and diverse itineraries. It's a long time away and a lot will happen between now and then.

I hope it works out, Antarctica is a magical place.

[foodsvcmgr]

To add to this mix, NCL is offering 14 day cruises in 2022 AND even 2023 on Norwegian Star sailing past Deception Island, Elephant Island and straits.

Surely all of the Big 3 parent cruise companies cannot be ignorant of their ability to deliver these itineraries, nor be conspiring to deceive passengers with some type of bait and switch?

Will be very interested to see this explained, it certainly seems like some sort of exception is being allowed in these fringe regions.

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

To add to this mix, NCL is offering 14 day cruises in 2022 AND even 2023 on Norwegian Star sailing past Deception Island, Elephant Island and straits.

Surely all of the Big 3 parent cruise companies cannot be ignorant of their ability to deliver these itineraries, nor be conspiring to deceive passengers with some type of bait and switch?

Will be very interested to see this explained, it certainly seems like some sort of exception is being allowed in these fringe regions.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have your confidence. After 30 years following the cruise industry, I've seen these types of "bait and switch' more often than I care to admit. It would be amazing if there was an exception being made for 2022!!! I sure do hope I'm wrong.

[foodsvcmgr]

Has anyone been able to get clarification on exactly where these cruises will be allowed to sail in the Antarctic region or if in fact the regulatory issues have changed from what was previously assumed as a 2021 cutoff for "drive bys"?