Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Ride-The-Waves]

The real caveat here is "fully vaccinated people."   

[Ken the cruiser]

12 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Ok hopefully the CDC will apply the exact same guidelines to cruises.  Anybody want to bet they don’t?

I really hope Florida loses on their threat to block the cruise lines from asking folks for proof of being vaccinated before boarding. If or when that happens, then the restricted cruises are all downhill from there. Sure, there's the Edge's Phase 2A plan based on the 95%/98% option which still needs to get approved. But that seems pretty doable from over here in the peanut gallery after all the recent CSO changes along with those yet to come. But, then again, I'm the optomist! 🙃  

Edited May 13, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[gerelmx]

The European Union approved on Monday a draft recommendation for member states to lift restrictions on non-essential travel for vaccinated people who come to the EU. The decision, according to the Community Executive, has been taken based on the latest scientific opinions that show that immunization helps to break the chain of transmission. The idea is that this proposal, to be agreed by the European Council, the body that represents the 27 member states, should be approved by the end of May, to enter into force at the beginning of June, according to Commission sources.

 

Plus Airlines & Cruise ship begin vaccinating the crew.

 

This has created hopes that we can travel to Europe

[ipeeinthepool]

31 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Ok hopefully the CDC will apply the exact same guidelines to cruises.  Anybody want to bet they don’t?

Nope

 

I think it was public pressure that forced their hand.  I don't see that same pressure for cruises.   I hope I'm wrong.

[4774Papa]

4 hours ago, HSTeacher1 said:

Maybe it's time to let people be responsible for themselved?

 

Why is it any of your business if they have been vaccinated?  You have a better chance of being struck by lightening than of getting a serious case of Covid from someone if you are already vaccinated

Agree, and apparently, the CDC finally came through with reason.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/2021/05/13/new-cdc-guidelines-vaccinated-americans-can-stop-wearing-masks/5079292001/

 

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Agree, and apparently, the CDC finally came through with reason.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/2021/05/13/new-cdc-guidelines-vaccinated-americans-can-stop-wearing-masks/5079292001/

 

I have been saying repeatedly here that there is no need to wear a mask on a fully vaccinated ship onboard.  Not outdoors.  Not even indoors.  So hopefully that will be the case when cruising returns.  The use of masks in ports in different countries will be decided by the local authorities.  It will highly depend on their local vaccinations.  I am happy with the epiphany from the CDC yesterday on their new relaxed restrictions.  But I am more than a little worried that they left mask restrictions in place for fully vaccinated on public transportation.  Yes cruises are private transportation but the CDC might lump them in with public transportation.

[Oceangoer2]

15 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sure, there's the Edge's Phase 2A plan based on the 95%/98% option which still needs to get approved.

What is the Edge Phase 2A plan?  And why just the Edge?

[K.T.B.]

10 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I have been saying repeatedly here that there is no need to wear a mask on a fully vaccinated ship onboard.  Not outdoors.  Not even indoors.  So hopefully that will be the case when cruising returns.  The use of masks in ports in different countries will be decided by the local authorities.  It will highly depend on their local vaccinations.  I am happy with the epiphany from the CDC yesterday on their new relaxed restrictions.  But I am more than a little worried that they left mask restrictions in place for fully vaccinated on public transportation.  Yes cruises are private transportation but the CDC might lump them in with public transportation.

 

I suppose they could try to do that, but public transportation generally means anyone can use it to start at point A to get to point B.  Closed loop cruises aren't that. Cruises aren't Amtrak.

[terrydtx]

7 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

But I am more than a little worried that they left mask restrictions in place for fully vaccinated on public transportation.  Yes cruises are private transportation but the CDC might lump them in with public transportation.

I have the same concern on flying both domestic and International. However at yesterday's press conference their was a reference to new transportation guidelines coming out in the next week or so from the CDC, so maybe this will be relaxed for the fully vaccinated.

 

My bigger concern are the states like Oregon still requiring masks 100% indoor and outdoor, even when driving a car. Will these states now follow the science and drop their ridiculous masking requirements? We are going to Oregon the last week of June for a family memorial for my wife's mother who passed last year. Here in my state of Texas we dropped mask requirements two months ago and our positivity rates keeps declining.

[TeeRick]

24 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I have the same concern on flying both domestic and International. However at yesterday's press conference their was a reference to new transportation guidelines coming out in the next week or so from the CDC, so maybe this will be relaxed for the fully vaccinated.

 

My bigger concern are the states like Oregon still requiring masks 100% indoor and outdoor, even when driving a car. Will these states now follow the science and drop their ridiculous masking requirements? We are going to Oregon the last week of June for a family memorial for my wife's mother who passed last year. Here in my state of Texas we dropped mask requirements two months ago and our positivity rates keeps declining.

Now that the CDC has let the maskless genie out of the bottle then any states that remain behind the science will face huge political pressure if they remain restricted.  The dominoes will fall.  Maybe not today or tomorrow but days to a week or two.

[TeeRick]

29 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I suppose they could try to do that, but public transportation generally means anyone can use it to start at point A to get to point B.  Closed loop cruises aren't that. Cruises aren't Amtrak.

Cruises are not Amtrak.  I love that!

[TrulyBlonde]

27 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I have the same concern on flying both domestic and International. However at yesterday's press conference their was a reference to new transportation guidelines coming out in the next week or so from the CDC, so maybe this will be relaxed for the fully vaccinated.

 

My bigger concern are the states like Oregon still requiring masks 100% indoor and outdoor, even when driving a car. Will these states now follow the science and drop their ridiculous masking requirements? We are going to Oregon the last week of June for a family memorial for my wife's mother who passed last year. Here in my state of Texas we dropped mask requirements two months ago and our positivity rates keeps declining.

I just read in our local paper that here in Pitkin County, they are continuing the indoor mask mandate for the entire Summer. One of the concert venues is going to reopen but will require proof of vaccination in order to enter. I was excited about not having to wear one in our little grocery market here. Still have to wear one for months with no end in sight here.😞

All of you Texans live free and also come here to get out of the heat. Will be interesting to see if you stay home or go elsewhere?

[terrydtx]

2 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I just read in our local paper that here in Pitkin County, they are continuing the indoor mask mandate for the entire Summer. One of the concert venues is going to reopen but will require proof of vaccination in order to enter. I was excited about not having to wear one in our little grocery market here. Still have to wear one for months with no end in sight here.😞

All of you Texans live free and also come here to get out of the heat. Will be interesting to see if you stay home or go elsewhere?

We would not be going to Oregon if we didn't have to go for a family memorial. I will not spend any leisure money or time in states that continue these ridiculous mask mandates in light of the CDC new guidelines. South Dakota is wide open and on our land travel list this summer, looks like we will have to bypass your state, unfortunately. I hope the citizens of Colorado remember which politicians keep promoting the ridiculous mask requirements in the next election.

[D C]

56 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I have been saying repeatedly here that there is no need to wear a mask on a fully vaccinated ship onboard.  Not outdoors.  Not even indoors.  So hopefully that will be the case when cruising returns.  The use of masks in ports in different countries will be decided by the local authorities.  It will highly depend on their local vaccinations.  I am happy with the epiphany from the CDC yesterday on their new relaxed restrictions.  But I am more than a little worried that they left mask restrictions in place for fully vaccinated on public transportation.  Yes cruises are private transportation but the CDC might lump them in with public transportation.

As pointed out in the NYT daily email briefing today, the CDC failed to explain why masks are required on buses but not in bars (for vaccinated people).

 

The CDC caught up a lot yesterday, but they're still behind. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

The real unasked question is: "where are you going to cruise to?"  We have no interest in paying "All Inclusive" prices to sit in a ship's bar and slosh down 15 drinks/day or to do that a "private island" owned  by the cruise line.  Can do that in my backyard.  

 

We have 3 cruises booked for 2022, starting with a TA in March Port Everglades to Southhampton with a stop at Casablanca, a return TA in November and a Med cruise in June.  The India variant, B.1.617 is spreading like wildfire and the UK is contemplating another shutdown, Japan is close to canceling the Olympics (again), several Asian countries have closed borders and WHO is concerned that this variant now in 50 countries may be more virulent than the "Kent" variant.  

 

Love the sea and spent 30 years in naval service.  Cruising implies visiting new places and seeing new sights, not sitting in a dark bar on a ship.  To me the issue of mask or no mask is moot if one cannot do the things we enjoy associated with cruising to new port and new countries.  The Caribbean holds no joy having been to just about all the places cruise lines visit.

[Ride-The-Waves]

19 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

We would not be going to Oregon if we didn't have to go for a family memorial. I will not spend any leisure money or time in states that continue these ridiculous mask mandates in light of the CDC new guidelines. South Dakota is wide open and on our land travel list this summer, looks like we will have to bypass your state, unfortunately. I hope the citizens of Colorado remember which politicians keep promoting the ridiculous mask requirements in the next election.

South Dakota is the "poster child" for how NOT to keep its citizens safe.  Not a place to visit, mask or no mask, vaccinated or not.  Do agree that we need to remember which politicians worked to keep citizens safe and healthy...  And, FYI, we have been fully vaccinated since late January, and still take precautions since others tend to flaunt health safety protocols.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves

[D C]

29 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

South Dakota is the "poster child" for how NOT to keep its citizens safe.  Not a place to visit, mask or no mask, vaccinated or not.  Do agree that we need to remember which politicians worked to keep citizens safe and healthy...  And, FYI, we have been fully vaccinated since late January, and still take precautions since others tend to flaunt health safety protocols.

What makes South Dakota special?  

Looking at death rates from covid, it seems New York and New Jersey would be better suited as poster children.  And Michigan is leading the country right now in daily deaths per capita.  South Dakota is in the top 10 for total desths/capita, but is handily beaten in terms of deaths/100k people by states with far more strict restrictions if that's what you were getting at. 

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Edited May 14, 2021 by D C

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Oceangoer2 said:

What is the Edge Phase 2A plan?  And why just the Edge?

No one exactly knows what's in the Edge's Phase 2A plan is because X hasn't submitted it to the CDC yet. As far as why just the Edge, it's just a guess on my part. But so far only the Edge's Jul-Sep itineraries out of Ft Lauderdale have been adjusted to 7 days to conform to the CSO maximum while the Equinox's Aug-Sep itineraries still have 9 and 12 day cruises. There are no other Celebrity ships scheduled to sail from any Florida port during the Jul-Sep timeframe; although the Summit has some scheduled out of New Jersey. Also, the Edge has recently limited passengers to only being able to book veranda and higher cabins in a possible effort to help keep the capacity around the 50% to support Phase 4 restricted cruises while the Equinox still allows folks to book all level of cabins. But these are only my interpretations of what's I'm seeing. That's all.

[Ride-The-Waves]

20 minutes ago, D C said:

What makes South Dakota special?  

Looking at death rates from covid, it seems New York and New Jersey would be better suited as poster children.  And Michigan is leading the country right now in daily deaths per capita.  South Dakota is in the top 10 for total desths/capita, but is handily beaten in terms of deaths/100k people by states with far more strict restrictions if that's what you were getting at. 

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

How quickly we forget the Sturgis Super Spreader Bike Rally that spread COVID-19 to over 260,000 people across America.

[Jeremiah1212]

29 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

No one exactly knows what's in the Edge's Phase 2A plan is because X hasn't submitted it to the CDC yet. As far as why just the Edge, it's just a guess on my part. But so far only the Edge's Jul-Sep itineraries out of Ft Lauderdale have been adjusted to 7 days to conform to the CSO maximum while the Equinox's Aug-Sep itineraries still have 9 and 12 day cruises. There are no other Celebrity ships scheduled to sail from any Florida port during the Jul-Sep timeframe; although the Summit has some scheduled out of New Jersey. Also, the Edge has recently limited passengers to only being able to book veranda and higher cabins in a possible effort to help keep the capacity around the 50% to support Phase 4 restricted cruises while the Equinox still allows folks to book all level of cabins. But these are only my interpretations of what's I'm seeing. That's all.

 

Someone with more expertise will have to chime in with their interpretation, but the Operations Manual for restricted cruises does not mention the 7 day cap.

 

The CSO itself does mention it, but it says 'CDC may shorten or lengthen the number of days permitted to sail based on public health considerations and as set forth in technical orders or instructions.'

 

Since there is no mention in the instructions in the operations manual for restricted sailings, does that mean the 7 day cap was removed or the initial CSO document itself is the basis unless otherwise stated?  

 

 

[D C]

51 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

How quickly we forget the Sturgis Super Spreader Bike Rally that spread COVID-19 to over 260,000 people across America.

You may want to check your sources. This recently released study cites 649 known primary, secondary, and tertiary cases related to the 460k people who attended Sturgis in 2020.

 

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab321/6257584

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, D C said:

You may want to check your sources. This recently released study cites 649 known primary, secondary, and tertiary cases related to the 460k people who attended Sturgis in 2020.

 

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab321/6257584

Here are several references for you including one where the governor of SD claimed it was all "fiction."  The lead number came from Kaiser Health.  I recall may horror stories from attendees suffering form COVID-19 who in retrospect stated they should never have attended.

 

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/sturgis-biker-rally-linked-to-260000-covid-cases/

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves

[hcat]

We  had 2 Moderna shots in Feb..  Planning on getting a booster as soon as it is recommended../ available.

 

  TV  spot today said folks should stick with what they had for 1st   shot for the 2nd to avoid  worse side effects.  Will this be true for the booster selection?

[D C]

6 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Here are several references for you including one where the governor of SD claimed it was all "fiction."  The lead number came from Kaiser Health.  I recall may horror stories from attendees suffering form COVID-19 who in retrospect stated they should never have attended.

 

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/sturgis-biker-rally-linked-to-260000-covid-cases/

You do realise that is merely a speculative prediction based on anonymous cell phone tracking data and not an actual study of covid cases, right? 

[NMTraveller]

11 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Now that the CDC has let the maskless genie out of the bottle then any states that remain behind the science will face huge political pressure if they remain restricted.  The dominoes will fall.  Maybe not today or tomorrow but days to a week or two.

Our state just announced they are following the CDC no mask rules.  More to come.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by NMTraveller