One of First Cruise Ships to Sail Has Covid 19 Outbreak

[Got2Cruise]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:36 PM, BarbarianPaul said:

It’s hard to gauge the effectiveness of these protocols when we read about them not working. That said, the German cruises to nowhere have not yet had any issues, so that’s a good sign. 
 

One other thing worries me, though. There are quite a few folks out there not willing to put on a mask, and we all know that’s a major contributor to the current resurgence. So how do we make sure the protocols, still unproven, are respected and followed? All it takes is one bad apple,  and we’ve all seen arrogant, inappropriate behavior from passengers who feel entitled. We faced a norovirus outbreak on an Australian/New Zealand cruise last for that very reason.

 

My phraseology aside, I don’t think it’s unkind to debate whether or not we should get onboard a ship. But one thing is certain. We don’t have enough information yet to make a truly informed decision. 

As far as pax not wearing masks. It should be stated in the cruise contract exactly what the mandates are and the repercussions if one does not adhere. More than one US flight has been returned because a pax refused to wear a mask. 

[Guerncruising]

11 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

As far as pax not wearing masks. It should be stated in the cruise contract exactly what the mandates are and the repercussions if one does not adhere. More than one US flight has been returned because a pax refused to wear a mask. 

Anyone who believes that it is their right not to wear a mask has got it all wrong. Look at it the other way, what if they are asymptomatic and demand their right not to wear a mask, what happens then?

Smacks of Typhoid Mary?

Edited August 9, 2020 by Guerncruising

[BarbarianPaul]

Totally agreed. But does anyone think that they won’t see a single person walking down a corridor not wearing a mask? That every single passenger will adhere, without fail, 100% of the time, 24 hours a day, to very strict but absolutely necessary protocols? 

[BarbarianPaul]

4 hours ago, Got2Cruise said:

As far as pax not wearing masks. It should be stated in the cruise contract exactly what the mandates are and the repercussions if one does not adhere. More than one US flight has been returned because a pax refused to wear a mask. 

The problem is that one repercussion would be to throw said passenger off the ship. But I doubt if any cruise line would do that after one instance. So it would probably have to be a multiple offender who has already had time to possibly spread anything he or she already has throughout all the public areas.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Perhaps the first infraction would mean being confined to your cabin for the rest of the day, or something like that.  Also hard to enforce--would definitely keep the security guys busy!

[SusieQft]

1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Also hard to enforce--would definitely keep the security guys busy!

Not to mention that the resulting police state would not be a good ambiance for the ship.  Hopefully when they sail, the rules will be tolerable enough that everyone will comply without extreme measures.  Otherwise, I would not want to be there.

[GOARMY]

A bit of  history  as to "throw said passenger off the ship". 

 

While not an exact historical parallel (history does not repeat itself); but close enough (but, history tends to rhyme).  

 

Recall several years' back when cruise lines such as Regent and Seabourn got  serious about smoking restrictions--specifically in Staterooms.  Like--No.  Full-stop. 

 

At the beginning of one Regent cruise--entered our Suite and encountered  very strong odor de' cigarette.  Not from our Suite, but from either fore or aft of us.   Had to open the veranda sliding door; turn-up the air conditioner full-blast; and alert our Suite Attendant.   He advised taking appropriate action which would be one warning only.  Smell went away--for two days.  

 

Two days later,  same smell.  Another  report to Attendant and Hotel Manager. Result:  Passengers were removed from ship at the next Port.  I don't know if folks from other contiguous Suites complained.  Hotel Manager reported back to advise of action.  And, another bottle of champagne--and a box of chocolates to our Suite with a  nice letter thanking us for reporting.

 

Second situation:  Passenger  getting into a physical altercation with another passenger  or Crew member.   I saw the push-shove by  an obviously drunk passenger escalate into a punch.  Recall the spark  was  dispute  over a deck chair.  Crew intervened.  Reported what I witnessed,  and  there were others  who saw same.

 

Result:  Offender restricted to cabin; then removed from ship at the next Port.  This time, a letter from the Captain detailing action taken. Can't recall if another bottle of champagne accompanied the letter.  But, on Regent,  Silversea,  Seabourn, and Crystal--this has never been a problem (obtaining champagne).  That letter also included information that the offender was banned from further cruising on that Line.  Can't  recall (again) if this was Regent or Seabourn.     

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

We didn't see, but knew the details of a similar altercation where someone punched another passenger. It was the last night of the cruise, so he was confined to his cabin, then let out the next morning since we were all disembarking anyways. 

[BarbarianPaul]

1 hour ago, GOARMY said:

A bit of  history  as to "throw said passenger off the ship". 

 

While not an exact historical parallel (history does not repeat itself); but close enough (but, history tends to rhyme).  

 

Recall several years' back when cruise lines such as Regent and Seabourn got  serious about smoking restrictions--specifically in Staterooms.  Like--No.  Full-stop. 

 

At the beginning of one Regent cruise--entered our Suite and encountered  very strong odor de' cigarette.  Not from our Suite, but from either fore or aft of us.   Had to open the veranda sliding door; turn-up the air conditioner full-blast; and alert our Suite Attendant.   He advised taking appropriate action which would be one warning only.  Smell went away--for two days.  

 

Two days later,  same smell.  Another  report to Attendant and Hotel Manager. Result:  Passengers were removed from ship at the next Port.  I don't know if folks from other contiguous Suites complained.  Hotel Manager reported back to advise of action.  And, another bottle of champagne--and a box of chocolates to our Suite with a  nice letter thanking us for reporting.

 

Second situation:  Passenger  getting into a physical altercation with another passenger  or Crew member.   I saw the push-shove by  an obviously drunk passenger escalate into a punch.  Recall the spark  was  dispute  over a deck chair.  Crew intervened.  Reported what I witnessed,  and  there were others  who saw same.

 

Result:  Offender restricted to cabin; then removed from ship at the next Port.  This time, a letter from the Captain detailing action taken. Can't recall if another bottle of champagne accompanied the letter.  But, on Regent,  Silversea,  Seabourn, and Crystal--this has never been a problem (obtaining champagne).  That letter also included information that the offender was banned from further cruising on that Line.  Can't  recall (again) if this was Regent or Seabourn.     

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

Great history! A couple was thrown off our New Zealand/Australia cruise last fall for breaking quarantine when diagnosed with Norovirus, but, alas, they left behind a massive outbreak and a ship in code red for the next 12 days.

 

I think it will be quite a while before the CDC allows any cruising. They’d get blamed for subsequent outbreaks, which are bound to happen, there’d be another shutdown,  and the industry would be in an even worse position than it is now.

[GOARMY]

Sue and I are hoping (against hope) our April-May, 2021 Tokyo pre-stay,  then cruise via Russia to Alaska and Vancouver, B.C. goes.  But--put odds at 1 in 4 as this is becoming a longshot.  Another instance reported in A.P. within the week as to a small Alaska charter boat (about 25 passengers) out of Seward, AK that got the go-ahead for a brief 7-day "voyage" to nowhere.   That lasted a few days; then passenger tested positive for COVID.  Back to Seward.  Everyone--passengers and crew quarantined. 

 

That Line had three follow-up cruises planned for later in August.  All canceled.  

 

Alas, one step forward; three steps backward.  Take care, all. 

 

GOARMY!

  

[Gcto]

5 hours ago, GOARMY said:

A bit of  history  as to "throw said passenger off the ship". 

 

While not an exact historical parallel (history does not repeat itself); but close enough (but, history tends to rhyme).  

 

Recall several years' back when cruise lines such as Regent and Seabourn got  serious about smoking restrictions--specifically in Staterooms.  Like--No.  Full-stop. 

 

At the beginning of one Regent cruise--entered our Suite and encountered  very strong odor de' cigarette.  Not from our Suite, but from either fore or aft of us.   Had to open the veranda sliding door; turn-up the air conditioner full-blast; and alert our Suite Attendant.   He advised taking appropriate action which would be one warning only.  Smell went away--for two days.  

 

Two days later,  same smell.  Another  report to Attendant and Hotel Manager. Result:  Passengers were removed from ship at the next Port.  I don't know if folks from other contiguous Suites complained.  Hotel Manager reported back to advise of action.  And, another bottle of champagne--and a box of chocolates to our Suite with a  nice letter thanking us for reporting.

 

Second situation:  Passenger  getting into a physical altercation with another passenger  or Crew member.   I saw the push-shove by  an obviously drunk passenger escalate into a punch.  Recall the spark  was  dispute  over a deck chair.  Crew intervened.  Reported what I witnessed,  and  there were others  who saw same.

 

Result:  Offender restricted to cabin; then removed from ship at the next Port.  This time, a letter from the Captain detailing action taken. Can't recall if another bottle of champagne accompanied the letter.  But, on Regent,  Silversea,  Seabourn, and Crystal--this has never been a problem (obtaining champagne).  That letter also included information that the offender was banned from further cruising on that Line.  Can't  recall (again) if this was Regent or Seabourn.     

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

so in somewhat jest.... If there is a passenger who come on board with covid (no knowing)...I'd try everything to help (return to port, etc etc)...but if this is one of those...I smoke where I want....... here's that old song ..."what shall we do with drunken sailor"...:-)     :-)

 

[Gcto]

3 hours ago, GOARMY said:

Sue and I are hoping (against hope) our April-May, 2021 Tokyo pre-stay,  then cruise via Russia to Alaska and Vancouver, B.C. goes.  But--put odds at 1 in 4 as this is becoming a longshot.  Another instance reported in A.P. within the week as to a small Alaska charter boat (about 25 passengers) out of Seward, AK that got the go-ahead for a brief 7-day "voyage" to nowhere.   That lasted a few days; then passenger tested positive for COVID.  Back to Seward.  Everyone--passengers and crew quarantined. 

 

That Line had three follow-up cruises planned for later in August.  All canceled.  

 

Alas, one step forward; three steps backward.  Take care, all. 

 

GOARMY!

  

I hope it works...you might want to to consider the September cruise.. van to tokyo....same itinerary.. just less cherry blossoms and hopefully less covid

 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I just read that MSC is going to run a couple of Med cruises in August. From Genoa and Trieste, Schengen pax only. It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

[cwn]

23 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

I just read that MSC is going to run a couple of Med cruises in August. From Genoa and Trieste, Schengen pax only. It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

Saw that also. It will be interesting, since all the ships trying to sail so far have had covid come aboard with a crew member or passenger. I think the MSC ships are considerably larger than the one that have tried to date.

[BBWC]

MSC will actually test every passenger prior to boarding.

[pappy1022]

How? Temperature checks? That’s not good enough. The quick turnaround tests are not as accurate as they need to be so that isn’t an effective way to truly test people. We’ve seen high profile NFL quarterbacks test positive only to find out that the test was wrong. I agree doing something is better than doing nothing but the technology just isn’t good enough yet to ensure safety.

[Guerncruising]

I just cannot believe it when I see what is going on in Europe. Not for me. No experimental cruises until it is safe to do so. 

What about all of the asymptomatic people who stroll onboard? No thanks!

[Got2Cruise]

3 hours ago, pappy1022 said:

How? Temperature checks? That’s not good enough. The quick turnaround tests are not as accurate as they need to be so that isn’t an effective way to truly test people. We’ve seen high profile NFL quarterbacks test positive only to find out that the test was wrong. I agree doing something is better than doing nothing but the technology just isn’t good enough yet to ensure safety.

That’s a decision the pax will have to decide. How safe do they need it? If you’re young and healthy to begin with it might be worth the risk to them. After all, WDW in the hotspot of Florida is open for business along with the hotels. 

[cwn]

46 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

That’s a decision the pax will have to decide. How safe do they need it? If you’re young and healthy to begin with it might be worth the risk to them. After all, WDW in the hotspot of Florida is open for business along with the hotels. 

That is true. My children are travelling, granted wearing a mask when needed and out working...one is a dentist and one is a chemical plant manager. Both families have traveled out of state and one family out of  the country and three of the grandchildren went to traditional summer camp in July with no problems. Four kids are in college and will be in class this fall(so far) and three are in high school. Their schools start in the next couple of weeks and they will be going back for in class learning. We will see how that goes.

 

The grandparents (us) are more careful....but we did join the family for the annual family lake gathering last month. Hadn't seen the kids since March...life is just to short to give up everything at our age. Each person has their own risk level. We are constantly evaluating the crowd levels and following the rules.....too crowded, we don't stop, shop or eat. I never thought I would get tired of take out LOL!

 

We are beginning to look at cruises mid, to late 2021 and 2022. So glad to know about the insurance options.  

 

 

[mrlevin]

Uncruise cancelled its whole (short) Alaska season due to a false positive:

 

A passenger on UnCruise Adventures' first Alaska sailing who tested positive for coronavirus has subsequently tested negative. 

'Zero transmission on board'

'There was zero transmission on board,' a company spokeswoman told Seatrade Cruise News Wednesday night.

Recapping what transpired

Upon being informed of the positive test results on Aug. 4, UnCruise had immediately ended the sailing and returned Wilderness Adventurer to Juneau where passengers went into quarantine in a hotel and crew were quarantined on board. The ship carried 36 passengers and 30 crew. 

The man with the divergent test results had tested negative before the trip and underwent another required test upon arriving in Alaska, the same day he embarked Wilderness Adventurer with four traveling companions. That was Aug. 1. On Aug 4, he got a call that his test on arrival in Alaska was positive. 

UnCruise not only cut short the voyage but canceled the rest of the season, four other weeklong Glacier Bay cruises. These wilderness-focused itineraries had no port calls apart from the Juneau turnarounds and they were likely the only cruises to operate in Alaska this year. 

What happens next? 

'We are now focused on what this means for American small businesses like ours and where we go from here,' the UnCruise spokeswoman said. 

CEO Capt. Dan Blanchard is scheduled to brief media Thursday night on what was learned in concert with state and local officials, independent and state testing and epidemiologists' reviews.

 

Think of the impact on this company and all the passengers that had booked this company.  Now, I am waiting for PG case to also be reported as false positive.

 

Marc

 

 

[greykitty]

FWIW, although open as mentioned above, Disney World is cutting hours back due to less than expected demand.  Disney Land remains closed.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-world-cuts-park-hours-lower-attendance-coronavirus-florida-2020-8

 

Also, after talks with the Disney cast union, Disney is opening a COVID testing site just off property for cast, customers, and the general public.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/disney-world-reaches-deal-with-actors-singers-over-coronavirus-testing/ar-BB17T8BF

 

It's a tough call for everyone - testing isn't perfect, but if discounted and turns out positive?   I guess we'll see soon how MSC's protocols work - and RCG is talking about preboarding tests as well.

 

Bayley suggested Royal Caribbean Group and the panel hadn’t yet made a final decision on a testing requirement.

 

“Certainly, testing seems to be very relevant, and discussions are underway,” he said during the conference call, which occurred in conjunction with the release of Royal Caribbean Group’s second-quarter earnings.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/cruise-ship-covid-boarding-test/?navtid=More-1

 

[howiefrommd]

The whole testing concept certainly has its issues.  I had to attend an in-person meeting in Florida a few days ago. In order to fly, I had to have a negative COVID-19 test done within 72 hours of flight.  Before flying back, I had to have a second test before flying.  I was thinking during this whole time, can you imagine flying all the way to Europe for a cruise (or land vacation) having a positive test result upon pre-boarding testing, then having to quarantine for 10 - 14 days (there are now 2 schools of thought about the recommended length of quarantine) in Africa, Turkey, Mumbai or wherever.  What a mess.

[Guerncruising]

8 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

  What a mess.

Sorry to edit so much.

What a mess it is and I feel that it’s better to sit this out quietly for a while until it is better sorted. 

Let’s hope that it doesn’t take too long. 

[rallydave]

13 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

The whole testing concept certainly has its issues.  I had to attend an in-person meeting in Florida a few days ago. In order to fly, I had to have a negative COVID-19 test done within 72 hours of flight.  Before flying back, I had to have a second test before flying.  I was thinking during this whole time, can you imagine flying all the way to Europe for a cruise (or land vacation) having a positive test result upon pre-boarding testing, then having to quarantine for 10 - 14 days (there are now 2 schools of thought about the recommended length of quarantine) in Africa, Turkey, Mumbai or wherever.  What a mess.

What airline was this??  Cannot imagine making this work for a one or two day trip with test results in our area sometimes taking weeks; reports are that they are down to 3 or so days but, what if they are late.  And finding a test location outside your home area and doing it quickly so you could get results and get home.

 

WOW, JUST WOW.

[howiefrommd]

1 minute ago, rallydave said:

What airline was this??  Cannot imagine making this work for a one or two day trip with test results in our area sometimes taking weeks; reports are that they are down to 3 or so days but, what if they are late.  And finding a test location outside your home area and doing it quickly so you could get results and get home.

 

WOW, JUST WOW.

The client provided a private plane. I refuse at this point to get on commercial. Speaking to my infectious disease colleagues, they agree with me.

 

That was one of the wacky parts, I had to be tested immediately upon landing in Florida, because I was going to return after the meeting.  Can you imagine this is under ideal testing conditions, can you imagine trying to do this for an entire cruise, airplane or bus tour loud full of people. 
 

In my case, I was pretty confident in the results as it was done at both ends via a medical school lab doing the test.  I do not know if I would have the same level of confidence using a rapid test.