OPEN LETTER TO THE CDC

[LMHSRN]

I'm just sayin!!!!!

 

It just seems a little confusing to me.  Cruise ships cannot sail but Hotels are open.  Cruse shIp has 1000 cabins, Hotel has 1000 rooms; Average two to a cabin average two to a hotel room;

Ships have Bars, Hotels have Bars; Ships have restaurants, Hotels have restaurants; Average stay on ship 7-days, Average Hotel stay 3-days.  Less turnaround on ships.  Ships have casinos, Hotels have casinos; Ships have elevators, Hotels have elevators.  Only difference if geography.  So.....why can one operate and the other can't?   I'm just sayin!!!

[chloes nana]

two words: SOCIAL DISTANCING!!

[npcl]

1 hour ago, LMHSRN said:

I'm just sayin!!!!!

 

It just seems a little confusing to me.  Cruise ships cannot sail but Hotels are open.  Cruse shIp has 1000 cabins, Hotel has 1000 rooms; Average two to a cabin average two to a hotel room;

Ships have Bars, Hotels have Bars; Ships have restaurants, Hotels have restaurants; Average stay on ship 7-days, Average Hotel stay 3-days.  Less turnaround on ships.  Ships have casinos, Hotels have casinos; Ships have elevators, Hotels have elevators.  Only difference if geography.  So.....why can one operate and the other can't?   I'm just sayin!!!

However, most people spend most of their time in hotels in their hotel rooms, when they go out it is generally to leave the hotel.

 

On cruise ships most people spend most of their time outside of their rooms in the public areas of the ship, but mostly still inside. Where they mingle closely with other passengers.

 

Hotels have not demonstrated the R0 greater than 12 that was demonstrated in a cruise ship environment.

 

Major differences between the two.

 

And the biggest difference.  Hotels are inside of the US where the CDC does not have enforcement authority (up to each state), Cruise ships are outside of the US with interaction at the borders where the CDC does have enforcement authority.

Edited August 24, 2020 by npcl

[CruiserBruce]

Many, if not most hotels in the US are not allowed to have their bars or restaurants open for interior sit down service. Instead, in many states, its outdoors, or to go only. How would that work on a cruise ship?

 

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

 

And the biggest difference.  Hotels are inside of the US where the CDC does not have enforcement authority (up to each state), Cruise ships are outside of the US with interaction at the borders where the CDC does have enforcement authority.

And that's it. For cruise ships the CDC with enforcement from the Coast Guard has power. When it comes to domestic hotels, that does not apply.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, LMHSRN said:

t just seems a little confusing to me.  Cruise ships cannot sail but Hotels are open

 

This entire year is confusing to more than just you!  The hotel experience--from everything that I have read on several travel related websites and forums--is significantly different from what it was earlier this year.  Breakfast buffets are so "yesterday".  Upon check-in, one might get a brown bag breakfast with a bottle of water.  Bellmen?  Valets?  Who are those at properties that once had them.  Some hotels are even removing carpeting in their rooms so that the floors can be more thoroughly cleaned between guests.  

 

Besides, I have little to no faith in the CDC at this time.  And, not much in the FDA for that matter, either.   

[whogo]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Besides, I have little to no faith in the CDC at this time.  And, not much in the FDA for that matter, either.   

Different strokes. I trust the science guys of the CDC and FDA over the wishful thinking guys.

[cruisemom42]

10 minutes ago, whogo said:

Different strokes. I trust the science guys of the CDC and FDA over the wishful thinking guys.

 

Another vote for science versus "Facebook Medical School".

[rkacruiser]

11 minutes ago, whogo said:

Different strokes. I trust the science guys of the CDC and FDA over the wishful thinking guys.

 

Just now, cruisemom42 said:

 

Another vote for science versus "Facebook Medical School".

 

As a retired Science teacher with a degree in Zoology and graduate study in the sciences, I agree.  I believe in science.  What concerns me is the influence politics has had on whatever we learn from the CDC and the FDA.  

[Lido deck main]

Okay let’s say the CDC says cruising can go ahead. Great news, oh one thing,  where are these cruise ships supposed to go, no other country will allow them to dock. Cruising will come back when the world agrees it is safe to do so.  The CDC is  agreeing with the common sentiment of the world.  

[rkacruiser]

34 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

I have more faith in the scientists of the CDC than the My Pillow CEO or politicians selling snake oil.

 

I have faith in what the "scientists" tell us.  But, what is the "filter" through which their words must pass before we hear them?

[Mosaic]

 A fair question, but no comparison otherwise.....

[Shmoo here]

5 hours ago, LMHSRN said:

I'm just sayin!!!!!

 

It just seems a little confusing to me.  Cruise ships cannot sail but Hotels are open.  Cruse shIp has 1000 cabins, Hotel has 1000 rooms; Average two to a cabin average two to a hotel room;

Ships have Bars, Hotels have Bars; Ships have restaurants, Hotels have restaurants; Average stay on ship 7-days, Average Hotel stay 3-days.  Less turnaround on ships.  Ships have casinos, Hotels have casinos; Ships have elevators, Hotels have elevators.  Only difference if geography.  So.....why can one operate and the other can't?   I'm just sayin!!!

If a ship has COVID aboard, chances are they will not be allowed to port.  You now have (how many?) people who require extensive medical care and a medical facility inadequate  to the task.

 

 

[Tapi]

I have been staying at hotels (due to my job) during the entire pandemic. The hotel experience at most hotels (even full service resorts) has been drastically reduced, although it’s been gradually reinstated over time.

At the beginning of the pandemic, the only thing that I could do would be to check in at the front desk and go directly to my room. Everything else would be closed. Even sitting at the lobby was prohibited. Pools, restaurants, bars, fitness center, housekeeping, (well everything) was closed. I went from enjoying my time on the road to absolutely hating it. 
 

As the months have gone by, operations at hotels have gradually returned. But very few are operating the way they did before the pandemic. With that said, a cruise ship simply can’t shut down every aspect of their operation like hotels did, and expect to attract passengers if they’ll be required to stay in their cabins during the entire duration of the cruise. 
 

 

[catl331]

15 hours ago, npcl said:

However, most people spend most of their time in hotels in their hotel rooms, when they go out it is generally to leave the hotel.

And when they go out they generally don't go to a different country each time!

Edited August 25, 2020 by catl331

[grest]

why wouldn't you go with science....taking a chance is a hell of a choicel

[iancal]

My strong preference is that the CDC base their direction on science rather than on public opinion.

 

The last few months have proven than science is a far better guide to public health and well being than public opinion-especially the opinion and direction of some of our politicians.  The latter approach has been a disaster as the numbers prove.

 

Cruise ships are nothing more than floating petri dishes when it comes to a pandemic.

 

 How would you like to float around aimlessly on a covid infected ship simply because ports will not allow you to dock?    Not so hotels.

Edited August 25, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

While I understand the sentiment and frustration read between the lines of the OP's post, I cannot agree with the comparison of cruise ships to hotels.  I say this having spent more then 3 years of my life on cruise ships (as a passenger) and plenty of nights in hotels.  So lets just talk about a few of the comparisons.  Hotel restaurants (many are still closed even though the hotels are now open) are like any land-based restaurant.  The hotels can reduce capacity by 50% (or whatever is required), change their format, or even stay closed for indoor dining.  Folks that stay in hotels do not need to eat in that hotel whereas cruise ship passengers must eat on the ship.   And lets consider that when many folks stay in a hotel it is only used as a place to sleep.  Once awake a majority of folks will leave the premises, go to eating venues scattered in the surrounding region, etc.  Also consider a simple thing like hotel elevators compared to cruise ship elevators.  

 

We agree that one cannot talk of cruise ships without mentioning the ports.  When in a hotel we can come and go as we please with unlimited options once we leave the premises.  But on a ship folks are captive in a relatively compact space.  A ship cruising around the world today would find very few places they could dock.  The reality is that nearly the entire world is closed to cruise ships and the economic realities coupled with the health risks have made a good argument to keep ports closed!  This is not an issue for hotels.

 

Hank

 

[StolidCruiser]

I’ve yet to stay at a hotel that after checking in, locks all exterior doors, removes itself from its foundation, relocates several times before resetting itself several days later, unlocking the doors and offloading its occupants who have just spent their confined time coughing and sneezing all over each other with no chance to escape.

[dogs4fun]

On 8/24/2020 at 5:28 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

 

As a retired Science teacher with a degree in Zoology and graduate study in the sciences, I agree.  I believe in science.  What concerns me is the influence politics has had on whatever we learn from the CDC and the FDA.  

Amen! We need science without politics!

Unfortunately, CDC again tweaked  its Covid-19 guidance stating that those healthy individuals exposed to Covid-19 "do not necessarily need a test" provided they have no symptoms.  What??? Testing, even for asymptomatic people, is crucial to lowering community transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

Amen! We need science without politics!

Unfortunately, CDC again tweaked  its Covid-19 guidance stating that those healthy individuals exposed to Covid-19 "do not necessarily need a test" provided they have no symptoms.  What??? Testing, even for asymptomatic people, is crucial to lowering community transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html

And they have also told store owners and employees not to enforce the wearing of masks by customers since it is not worth the violence that it might provoke.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dont-argue-with-anti-maskers-cdc-warns-stores/ar-BB18mCM8?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

[iancal]

Think about the potential solutions to cure or abate covid that have come from the public and political domains over the past few months. 

 

Heat, light, bleach, hydroxychloroquine, and oleander (a known poison) have all been suggest so far.  I might even have missed a few.   

 

What is next....planting something in the far corner of your backyard at the stoke of midnight during a full moon?

 

I mean really, if this is not enough silliness and danger for folks to wake up and stick to proven science I do not know what ever will be.  

 

Barnum was right.  There is one born every second.

Edited August 26, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, iancal said:

Think about the potential solutions to cure or abate covid that have come from the public and political domains over the past few months. 

 

Heat, light, bleach, hydroxychloroquine, and oleander (a known poison) have all been suggest so far.  I might even have missed a few.   

 

What is next....planting something in the far corner of your backyard at the stoke of midnight during a full moon?

 

I mean really, if this is not enough silliness and danger for folks to wake up and stick to proven science I do not know what ever will be.  

 

Barnum was right.  There is one born every second.

"Proven science" seems to be in the eye of the beholder when it comes to COVID.  How fast folks forget.  We could review.  In January Dr Fauci said COVID was not a major threat!  Around that same time the "scientists" from China and WHO assured the world that COVID was not contagious human to human.  We were then told NOT to wear masks because they were dangerous.  And we could go on and on about "science."  In fact, just today the CDC changed their guidelines on testing.  So it is fine for "science" to change their minds from week to week.  Is that real science?  

 

So today I heard (on he radio) that Moderna had announced that their vaccine created lots of antibodies in Seniors.  This sounded like some good news until I looked into the statement and found out that it was based on a handful of folks from months ago during their Phase 1 Trials (they are now in Phase 3).  What nobody ever says about Moderna is that the company has NEVER brought a single drug or vaccine to market in its short 9 year existence.  But it sure has managed to more then boost the value of its stock (over $200 million has been sold off by its senior management in the last few months).  Bottom line for Moderna is that many of the key players have become very wealthy without ever having had a single drug approved by the FDA.  Will Moderna become the savior when it comes to COVID?  If so it would be their first real commercial success.  And by the way, Moderna is a very legitimate drug company doing a lot of pioneering research.  While I sure hope they find the solution to COVID I cannot help but be a little skeptical about a company that increases the value of its stock with every announcement.  This is all very legal but there is something bothersome about a company that has enriched its key players without ever bringing a product to market or making a profit (their loses exceed $1.5 Billion).

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

"Proven science" seems to be in the eye of the beholder when it comes to COVID.  How fast folks forget.  We could review.  In January Dr Fauci said COVID was not a major threat!  Around that same time the "scientists" from China and WHO assured the world that COVID was not contagious human to human.  We were then told NOT to wear masks because they were dangerous.  And we could go on and on about "science."  In fact, just today the CDC changed their guidelines on testing.  So it is fine for "science" to change their minds from week to week.  Is that real science?  

 

So today I heard (on he radio) that Moderna had announced that their vaccine created lots of antibodies in Seniors.  This sounded like some good news until I looked into the statement and found out that it was based on a handful of folks from months ago during their Phase 1 Trials (they are now in Phase 3).  What nobody ever says about Moderna is that the company has NEVER brought a single drug or vaccine to market in its short 9 year existence.  But it sure has managed to more then boost the value of its stock (over $200 million has been sold off by its senior management in the last few months).  Bottom line for Moderna is that many of the key players have become very wealthy without ever having had a single drug approved by the FDA.  Will Moderna become the savior when it comes to COVID?  If so it would be their first real commercial success.  And by the way, Moderna is a very legitimate drug company doing a lot of pioneering research.  While I sure hope they find the solution to COVID I cannot help but be a little skeptical about a company that increases the value of its stock with every announcement.  This is all very legal but there is something bothersome about a company that has enriched its key players without ever bringing a product to market or making a profit (their loses exceed $1.5 Billion).

 

Hank

 

It's a 2020 version of "The Emperor's New Clothes" fable.  I hope I am incorrect in my thinking about this Company and it's "successes", but, I choose not to hold my breath.  

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, iancal said:

Think about the potential solutions to cure or abate covid that have come from the public and political domains over the past few months. 

 

Heat, light, bleach, hydroxychloroquine, and oleander (a known poison) have all been suggest so far.  I might even have missed a few.   

 

What is next....planting something in the far corner of your backyard at the stoke of midnight during a full moon?

 

I mean really, if this is not enough silliness and danger for folks to wake up and stick to proven science I do not know what ever will be.  

 

Barnum was right.  There is one born every second.

You left out religion, going to church services.