NCLH Bringing Up the Rear

[SWFLAOK]

4 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

I remember reading this but now I can't find it; however, I did a filter on "Featured" cruises which used to include all 2021 cruises; now it a shows a lot fewer cruises more in line with what pcardad has been stating; first Navigator cruise is not until September 12th Montreal to New York.  Splendor and Explorer start in late May followed by Mariner with Voyager joining in August.  These are not the tea leaves I was hoping for.

 

Marc

This is stated in all of the Regent info that I receive (2 or 3 every week). All Regent excursions will be providing a bubble with cleansed tour buses, access only to sites that have Covid19 protocols, etc. If there's no Regent excursion offered for your port, I would not expect to take one on your own. The current  brochures also say that all ports will be monitored for current health conditions, and could be changed. I was impressed by the fact that Regent brochures say that they have already added testing labs to their ships, as well as additional medical personnel and isolation rooms, and will be providing complimentary consultation and treatment of respiratory illnesses onboard. They've upgraded their HEPA filters, and will be fogging every cabin as part of daily cleaning. Why other cruise lines didn't do this while they had down time, I don't know. I think what Regent has done will make it much safer to travel on cruise ships, where we've seen sick people coming onboard, and not staying in their cabins while coughing.

[Kwaj girl]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:46 AM, mrlevin said:

Is one of your steps Splendor leaving Europe full of European crew to man multiple ships?  And NCL Joy et al leaving Manilla with Filipino crew to man multiple ships?

 

I really don't care what happens to Explorer or Voyager or Splendor or Mariner; I just care about Navigator leaving NYC on 31 May for the Grand Arctic.  Currently final payment is 1 January and involves over $75K to provide to Regent and insurance company.  There are a lot of steps (many involving the other ships) that need to happen before I feel ready to make that payment and purchase air.

 

I really want to see a plan.

 

We, too, are booked on this one with a similar large payment due 1 January.  I really wish we knew FOR SURE what was going on. We recently received our WC'21 refund from Regent...banked that for now...only to turn around & send it back to them for this voyage which probably won;t go...only to have to wait for THIS one to be refunded.  Seems like a vicious circle.  DOn;t even know if our Vancouver-Tokyo will be a 'go' in September....

[rallydave]

36 minutes ago, Kwaj girl said:

 

We, too, are booked on this one with a similar large payment due 1 January.  I really wish we knew FOR SURE what was going on. We recently received our WC'21 refund from Regent...banked that for now...only to turn around & send it back to them for this voyage which probably won;t go...only to have to wait for THIS one to be refunded.  Seems like a vicious circle.  DOn;t even know if our Vancouver-Tokyo will be a 'go' in September....

Well, based on a link provided by flossie several cruise lines under Carnival are stopping for the time being selling cruises over 7 days leaving from, arriving to or transiting thru US Ports thru November 2021 per the CDC direction in the new order.  People seem to be confused and wondering because cruises fitting this criteria are not being sold or marketed but also because cruise lines are trying to get more information regarding this issues from CDC are not being cancelled.  Your cruise fits this description.

 

Not all cruise lines so far have taken this approach.  KNow this doesn't answer your quandary juct giving you further information that could be changed by CDC but, at this point in time with no changes to the CDC order cruises like yours cannot sail as I read the order and evidently as Carnival Corp reads the order as well.  Good luck.

[mrlevin]

They can certainly sell a five day cruise to Halifax and then an 89 day cruise from Halifax to New York and satisfy the CDC order.  Just waiting to see what Regent does.

 

Marc

[SusieQft]

17 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

They can certainly sell a five day cruise to Halifax and then an 89 day cruise from Halifax to New York and satisfy the CDC order.  Just waiting to see what Regent does.

 

Marc

Sure they could do that, but they would not be able to come back to NYC at the end under current rules.

[mrlevin]

3 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Sure they could do that, but they would not be able to come back to NYC at the end under current rules.

 

Then they sell a five day cruise from Bermuda at the end.

[SusieQft]

1 minute ago, mrlevin said:

 

Then they sell a five day cruise from Bermuda at the end.

In between they would need to do another simulated cruise to qualify to offer sail with paying passengers in US waters.  I think you are either joking or in denial, unless you think the CDC is going to loosen up their current rules by then.  Based on our current COVID statistics, it seems more likely to go in the other direction.  A vaccine should be available before then, but not in enough quantity to turn this around by May, IMO.

[rallydave]

6 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

In between they would need to do another simulated cruise to qualify to offer sail with paying passengers in US waters.  I think you are either joking or in denial, unless you think the CDC is going to loosen up their current rules by then.  Based on our current COVID statistics, it seems more likely to go in the other direction.  A vaccine should be available before then, but not in enough quantity to turn this around by May, IMO.

Once a ship has received conditional approval to sail restricted cruises unless the CDC removes that Conditional approval don't believe more simulated cruises are required.unless for some reason the CEC pulls the conditional approval and makes the ship do the process again.

 

And, sincerely hope Marc is joking as don't believe the CDC will take kindly for a cruise line to do what he is suggesting.  And, even if they did what he is suggesting, those who have or would want to sail more than to Halifax adn from Bermuda would not be allowed as they would be on a more than 7 day cruise.  Don't believe any cruise  line would try that ploy or they might have all of their ships lose the ability to sail in US waters!!

[SusieQft]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

Once a ship has received conditional approval to sail restricted cruises unless the CDC removes that Conditional approval don't believe more simulated cruises are required.unless for some reason the CEC pulls the conditional approval and makes the ship do the process again.

As I understand it, and I admit that may be a stretch, the conditional approval is contingent on the ship continuing to follow the rules, including for restricted voyages of no more than 7 days.  I think that once they break that rule, the conditional approval would no longer be valid.

Edited November 15, 2020 by SusieQft

[flossie009]

It appears that the CDC had not fully thought through the application of their latest edict towards cruises that are predominately outside US waters but embark/disembark at a US port.

 

From a recent interesting CC article:

When asked specifically about the status of these voyages last week, the CDC commented that it still has not ironed out the details yet. "CDC has not yet determined and further information about restricted voyages will be outlined in future technical instructions and orders," a CDC spokesperson told Cruise Critic in an email.

[SusieQft]

I believe that most ocean cruises spend most of their time "outside US waters" except the Alaska cruises, and to a lesser extent the ones between the US and Quebec/Montreal and a few repositioning cruises on the east and west coasts.  If the CDC guidelines are going to ignore everything that happens while the ship is outside US waters, then they have no real teeth at all.  Somehow I doubt that was their intent.

 

I agree that they are not very well thought out as to how they would be applied.

[flossie009]

55 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

If the CDC guidelines are going to ignore everything that happens while the ship is outside US waters, then they have no real teeth at all.  Somehow I doubt that was their intent.

I agree. They cannot ignore it even though they have no jurisdiction over it.

 

What I fail to understand is why the CDC has inserted the phrase “....... offer to sail .....”  in the Order.
This is having the effect of disrupting cruise line advertised schedules, and their future bookings, throughout next year.

Is this really what the CDC intended?

 

However, I also note that Regent are still continuing to offer cruises in excess of 7 days throughout 2021, including those that call at US ports.

Are they ignoring the CDC Order, waiting for clarification or just slow in their reaction? (NCLH bringing up the rear, perhaps 🙄)

Edited November 15, 2020 by flossie009

[fizzy]

3 hours ago, flossie009 said:

 

 

However, I also note that Regent are still continuing to offer cruises in excess of 7 days throughout 2021, including those that call at US ports.

Are they ignoring the CDC Order, waiting for clarification or just slow in their reaction? (NCLH bringing up the rear, perhaps 🙄)

 Thank you for pointing this out. We had our eye on a Miami RT in mid March with the thought that if things had straightened out, maybe we would have given it a shot. When I checked a couple of days ago, there were still cabins with availability and some waitlisted...but it's a 10 day cruise. Are they even allowed to market these with the 7 day restrictions? We don't want to get bogged down on the FCC/ refund merry go round. We would be interested if it was a shortened cruise and ships are finally sailing safely. Am I missing something?

[rallydave]

9 hours ago, SusieQft said:

As I understand it, and I admit that may be a stretch, the conditional approval is contingent on the ship continuing to follow the rules, including for restricted voyages of no more than 7 days.  I think that once they break that rule, the conditional approval would no longer be valid.

Believe you are absolutely correct in the above.  Because the order was not written very clearly as many including us have identified continually am hoping CDC gets some people familiar with the variances involved with cruising throughout the world to perform a complete review of the current order and fix the many ambiguities.

 

Fully agree the order was written using the terms conditional and restricted such that the CDC can monitor the restricted sailings and remove the approvals should they need to.  What is not covered is what it will take to reinstate the conditional approval and  while I am sure there will be requirements to get the approval reinstated, sincerely doubt that will include sailing more simulated cruises.

 

For sure anything is possible until the CDC gets its' act together and writes a comprehensive order that makes sense.

[howiefrommd]

When you sit back and think about it, the CSO is not much different than the NSO.  The only thing it did was create a smoke screen that was the result of the pressure the State of Florida and the Cruise Industry put on their political connections.  The reality is cruises are not in our immediate future.  

 

CDC articulated (to those who are accustomed to the edicts of CDC, FDA, CMS, etc.) guidelines that cruise lines needed to meet in order to begin sailing.  One would think that the cruise lines would have been beyond pro-active in responding to the original NSO. This is not the first dance the cruise lines have had with CDC.  The negotiations are very similar to those with the VSP.  The panel that was formed and their subsequent report (in this case) provide lots of catch phrases people want to hear, but are woefully short on actual content and executable action plans.

 

In lucid thought, now take into consideration this debacle with Seadream.  Now up to 9 infected, and they have ceased operations for the rest of 2020, and it is rumored until April 2021.

 

Whatever cruise lines actual survive financially, will be out of business should a similar outbreak occur.  We all want to get back to what our lives were before, we have a new reality.  

Edited November 17, 2020 by howiefrommd
Typo

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

Such gloom and doom... and lengthy dialog.......we should have a vaccine widely available by April. We will be normal and cruising will begin the way we like it. 
sheila

[SusieQft]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:06 PM, mrlevin said:

They can certainly sell a five day cruise to Halifax and then an 89 day cruise from Halifax to New York and satisfy the CDC order.

 

On 11/14/2020 at 7:29 PM, mrlevin said:

Then they sell a five day cruise from Bermuda at the end.

 

Marc, this is purely wishful thinking, although I think you probably realize that.

 

Since I just re-read a lot of the latest CDC order to address a question on another thread, I found the relevant requirement at the bottom of page 30: 

 

"As a condition of obtaining or retaining a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate, cruise ship operators must comply with the requirements of this framework.  These requirements apply to any cruise ship operating in U.S. waters and to cruise ships operating outside of U.S. waters if the cruise ship operator intends for the ship to return to operating in U.S. waters at any time while Order remains in effect."

 

That sounds pretty clear to me.  Under current rules, they cannot tack on 5 or 6 night segments at the beginning and end of a Grand Voyage and expect to return to the US at the end.  The intervening non-compliance outside of US waters will void their Conditional Sailing Certificate.

 

Hopefully the vaccine will change this, but it seems to me that will be unlikely to happen before May 31.  I look forward to the day that the only COVID related requirement to board the ship is to provide proof of vaccination.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Going along with the wishful thinking approach, not every ship in every line needs to call on US ports.  You could still do a world cruise if you are willing to keep that ship out of US waters until the Order is ultimately cancelled.  There's a whole wide world out there [and I want to see it!]

[mrlevin]

HostJazz; glad to see you in Regent forum; we have really missed Host Dan since he left; glad to have you aboard.

 

Marc

[Host Jazzbeau]

Thanks for the welcome, but Host Dan is still the official host here.  I'm just visiting because Regent seems like the kind of cruise line I would enjoy.

[Fogfog]

We have a TP Vancover to Tokyo for the fall 2021

And asked our agent what he thinks..He replied

 

Your trip is so far away that I promise you, nothing you are reading today is going to matter. 

 

Today the CDC says that all cruise ships DEPARTING from the US must have each crew member have their own cabin. 

 

Can you see that happening?  The cruise will have to use passenger cabins.  The cruise lines can’t make any money with that.  

 

So you can see this is all going to HAVE to change. 

 

The cruise lines will give you FULL disclosure as to what will be required to sail with them. You will know before you have to hand over your final payment. So you have nothing to worry about.  

 

Hope that helps a bit. It’s just too early to give you any firm answers. "

 

 

[snorkle lover]

Fog fog,

Thank you for this information. We are booked on the Splendor from London to

Barcelona the end of September, 2021. So, we are cautiously hopeful. Since our

balance isn’t due until the end of May, we have time in our side.

[Pcardad]

At 55% capacity, they will need less crew as well. That number may swing 5% in either direction.

[rallydave]

Awhile to go before any sailings, now cancelled thru end of March

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23978-norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-cancels-all-january-and-february-cruises.html?fbclid=IwAR1vcpDBmLeX-603_wOUOqnFYkxMiL4w6OXt3YvPYJby0p-15MOJDK9w3sI