The Virus and the Vaccine

[JamieLogical]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

 

Because if you can carry and transmit the virus you can pass it on to those that are already vaccinated and all of you can pass it on to. medically unable to have the vaccine, those that have had the vaccine but due to medical reasons may still be badly affected by it, the 5% that the vaccine does not protect and anyone unvaccinated in countries you visit when travelling. Not quite as simple as just having a shot and everything is good.  

 

I assume that while off the ship we would till have to adhere to any local guidelines regarding masking, social distancing, limited capacity, etc...

[nomad098]

11 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I assume that while off the ship we would till have to adhere to any local guidelines regarding masking, social distancing, limited capacity, etc...

 

Masks, social distancing and limiting numbers in areas has not worked well for UK, EU and US.

 

I know if I was a leader of a country that had low virus prevalence I would not be keen on letting cruise ship passengers vaccinated or not into the country unless my people had been vaccinated first. 

[Formula280SS]

16 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I assume that while off the ship we would till have to adhere to any local guidelines regarding masking, social distancing, limited capacity, etc...

 

4 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

Masks, social distancing and limiting numbers in areas has not worked well for UK, EU and US.

 

I know if I was a leader of a country that had low virus prevalence I would not be keen on letting cruise ship passengers vaccinated or not into the country unless my people had been vaccinated first. 

 

Good points.  It will definitely be awhile before 'everyone is vaccinated.

 

A really small tunnel, regarding potential US based Caribbean cruises, is that some US Territories are included in the US umbrella of vaccine allocation and distribution, notably Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands (that have ports of call).

 

The covered vaccination map of US states and territories.

 

 

[Formula280SS]

Apparently, other countries with established legal Territories are including them in their allocation of the vaccine also.

 

https://bernews.com/2020/11/prime-minister-johnson-on-covid-19-vaccine/

 

"Anguilla, Bermuda, BVI, the Cayman Islands, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, St Helena, Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha, and the Turks & Caicos"

[david_sobe]

20 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

So what? Even if a vaccinated person could spread the disease, they can't spread it to someone who has been vaccinated.  This is even more reason to get the vaccine.

This is the problem with quoting people in responses.  You quoted me and responded with a response that takes what I wrote out of context.  My words were in response for the need for everyone to still uses masks until everyone is vaccinated and Covid is snuffed out.  You respond with "So What" and then cater your response inferring something I did not say.

[boatseller]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:24 AM, roger001 said:

to prevent you from having a severe case

This little nugged is the most important phrase in the article.

 

Most people already don't have a severe case so...

 

I can see the headlines now:  "Experts fear vaccinated people careless in spreading virus."

[zdcatc12]

I saw in the paper this morning that facilities doing vaccinations are getting one and sometimes two extra doses out of a five dose vial. Pfizer says that is ok as long as they don't mix extras from more than one vial into another to stretch it. They said that this could instantly increase the available amount by 20-30%

[DCGuy64]

I just found out that my employer will be offering free COVID vaccines to its employees free of charge (it'll be done through our insurer). However, it will NOT be compulsory, so employees won't have to choose between taking the vaccine and keeping their jobs. Seems like a good compromise to me. (I definitely plan on getting it)

 

[Homosassa]

For anyone interested in a science based discussion of the vaccines, please go to the Celebrity board and check out the thread "Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?"

 

It is a thread that started in the beginning of July and has posters that are knowable in vaccine development and FDA approval procedures (including the need for the vaccines receiving EAUs to also receive BLAs).

 

The thread is at 74 pages and, at times, can be highly technical, but eventually someone takes a stab at putting  an explanation in lay terms.

 

The Celebrity Forum host has allowed the thread to continue even though cruising is not necessarily the focus of the thread.

 

Posters have been self policing the thread in that the informal rules in the thread are no political rants or obvious "fake news."

 

 

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I just found out that my employer will be offering free COVID vaccines to its employees free of charge (it'll be done through our insurer). However, it will NOT be compulsory, so employees won't have to choose between taking the vaccine and keeping their jobs. Seems like a good compromise to me. (I definitely plan on getting it)

 

Will those who do get vaccinated still have to wear masks, social distance, etc., because some employees have made the choice not to get the vaccine?  It would seem to me that their refusal to be vaccinated removes any obligation on those who did get vaccinated to protect those who refused.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Will those who do get vaccinated still have to wear masks, social distance, etc., because some employees have made the choice not to get the vaccine?  It would seem to me that their refusal to be vaccinated removes any obligation on those who did get vaccinated to protect those who refused.

That's a good question, one I can't answer yet. Most of my company has been working from home for the last 9 months, and no one knows when we'll be expected back in the office. My understanding is that masks and social distancing will still be required at first, but the HR dept makes that decision and I"m not in HR. I highly doubt anyone outside of HR will know who is and who isn't vaccinated. Personal health information about employees is NEVER divulged where I work.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

That's a good question, one I can't answer yet. Most of my company has been working from home for the last 9 months, and no one knows when we'll be expected back in the office. My understanding is that masks and social distancing will still be required at first, but the HR dept makes that decision and I"m not in HR. I highly doubt anyone outside of HR will know who is and who isn't vaccinated. Personal health information about employees is NEVER divulged where I work.

I suspect  your HR will take a 'belt and suspenders' approach, requiring masks and social distancing even after the vaccine is widely available to avoid liability.  

[gizfish]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Will those who do get vaccinated still have to wear masks, social distance, etc., because some employees have made the choice not to get the vaccine?  It would seem to me that their refusal to be vaccinated removes any obligation on those who did get vaccinated to protect those who refused.

Since there is no evidence for or against whether the vaccine prevents someone from being a "carrier" of the virus while still being protected, these preventative behaviors will be in place for some time after the vaccine really rolls out.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, gizfish said:

Since there is no evidence for or against whether the vaccine prevents someone from being a "carrier" of the virus while still being protected, these preventative behaviors will be in place for some time after the vaccine really rolls out.

Why would one want to rely upon those 'preventative behaviors' when there is a vaccine that provides a 95% protection?  BTW, there is no evidence that one can be a carrier after being vaccinated.  That simply wasn't tested.

Edited December 18, 2020 by RocketMan275

[BirdTravels]

22 hours ago, zdcatc12 said:

I saw in the paper this morning that facilities doing vaccinations are getting one and sometimes two extra doses out of a five dose vial. Pfizer says that is ok as long as they don't mix extras from more than one vial into another to stretch it. They said that this could instantly increase the available amount by 20-30%

While the guidance is to administer the additional dose, sounds like they are shipping with too much diluent and the doses being administered are like “watered down drinks”(like on a cruise ship). Sounds like an issue more than benefit.
 

if we assume that the vaccine powder is dispensed at a exact amount to match the study concentration, the power should be mixed with exactly 5 doses of the Pfizer-provided saline. If the result is an extra dose to worse two doses, then there was too much saline shipped in the diluent vile. 

[BirdTravels]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:14 PM, nomad098 said:

 

Masks, social distancing and limiting numbers in areas has not worked well for UK, EU and US. 

I have never seen this behavior in the US.
 

The only place that is close is Hawaii where the state COVID cases have been down about 100 per day. And the people who are not complying are the tourists from the continental US (the mainland). 
 

Since the start of the pandemic, people are constantly pushing up against each other and reaching over each other mask-less or with improperly worn masks in every store.
 

We were at Charlotte airport last week and there was zero social distancing in any line (checkin, food, stores, boarding). I can already see this on ships. 

[Susandt]

Got my vaccine this morning, excited that this is the first step back to normal.

[All-ready2cruise]

18 minutes ago, Susandt said:

Got my vaccine this morning, excited that this is the first step back to normal.

Congratulations! 😉 One step closer to a resolution!  

[Laszlo]

26 minutes ago, Susandt said:

Got my vaccine this morning, excited that this is the first step back to normal.

Congrats!

 

Big shout out to my friend Katalin Karikó

 

 

 

.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Laszlo

[zdcatc12]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

While the guidance is to administer the additional dose, sounds like they are shipping with too much diluent and the doses being administered are like “watered down drinks”(like on a cruise ship). Sounds like an issue more than benefit.
 

if we assume that the vaccine powder is dispensed at a exact amount to match the study concentration, the power should be mixed with exactly 5 doses of the Pfizer-provided saline. If the result is an extra dose to worse two doses, then there was too much saline shipped in the diluent vile. 

This is what I saw: Manufacturers typically overfill vaccine vials to safeguard against spills and other waste, said Erin Fox, a pharmacy expert at University of Utah who monitors drug shortages.

 

"The amount of vaccine remaining in the multidose vial after removal of 5 doses can vary, depending on the type of needles and syringes used," Pfizer spokesperson Sharon Castillo told POLITICO. 

[JamieLogical]

13 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

While the guidance is to administer the additional dose, sounds like they are shipping with too much diluent and the doses being administered are like “watered down drinks”(like on a cruise ship). Sounds like an issue more than benefit.
 

if we assume that the vaccine powder is dispensed at a exact amount to match the study concentration, the power should be mixed with exactly 5 doses of the Pfizer-provided saline. If the result is an extra dose to worse two doses, then there was too much saline shipped in the diluent vile. 

 

My understanding from a UK pharmacist I saw an interview from, there is always a bit of extra vaccine packaged it the vials to account for spillage and waste. There can be more or less spillage and waste based on the types of syringes used, pressurization during transport, etc.

[RocketMan275]

On 12/18/2020 at 2:01 PM, gizfish said:

Since there is no evidence for or against whether the vaccine prevents someone from being a "carrier" of the virus while still being protected, these preventative behaviors will be in place for some time after the vaccine really rolls out.

 

Well, actually such evidence, that at least one of the vaccines prevents one from being a carrier, does exist and the source is Fauci himself:

 

 

https://www.newsmax.com/us/fauci-moderna-vaccine-covid/2020/12/18/id/1002190/

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine, which the Food and Drug Administration is expected to approve quickly, will protect recipients against both the disease and infection, which has a significant difference in controlling the rapid spread of the virus, Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday. 

 

"If you protect against clinical disease, that's very good," Fauci, the director of the Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, said on NBC's "Today." "But if you also even prevent a person from getting actually infected, that would mean that you're preventing someone from passing the infection on to someone else, and that kind of interferes with the chain of transmission."

[gizfish]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

Well, actually such evidence, that at least one of the vaccines prevents one from being a carrier, does exist and the source is Fauci himself:

 

 

https://www.newsmax.com/us/fauci-moderna-vaccine-covid/2020/12/18/id/1002190/

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine, which the Food and Drug Administration is expected to approve quickly, will protect recipients against both the disease and infection, which has a significant difference in controlling the rapid spread of the virus, Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday. 

 

"If you protect against clinical disease, that's very good," Fauci, the director of the Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, said on NBC's "Today." "But if you also even prevent a person from getting actually infected, that would mean that you're preventing someone from passing the infection on to someone else, and that kind of interferes with the chain of transmission."

The Pfizer vaccine cannot yet make the claim that it prevents asymptomatic cases of Covid-19.  Also, we need to remember both vaccines require 2 doses.  Mitigating behavior will need to continue during the period that people are waiting for their second doses.  And we also need to remember that the majority of American won't be vaccinated until later next year.

[RocketMan275]

11 hours ago, gizfish said:

The Pfizer vaccine cannot yet make the claim that it prevents asymptomatic cases of Covid-19.  Also, we need to remember both vaccines require 2 doses.  Mitigating behavior will need to continue during the period that people are waiting for their second doses.  And we also need to remember that the majority of American won't be vaccinated until later next year.

It's becoming more clear that claims we will still have to practice mitigation after vaccination are overdrawn and that is great news for the cruising public.  

[BirdTravels]

On 12/19/2020 at 4:26 AM, JamieLogical said:

 

My understanding from a UK pharmacist I saw an interview from, there is always a bit of extra vaccine packaged it the vials to account for spillage and waste. There can be more or less spillage and waste based on the types of syringes used, pressurization during transport, etc.

This is a powder. You mix with liquid. If there is 20%-33% extra liquid, you are watering down the powder. 33% extra diluent is not “a bit extra”.
 

Many vaccines, like the shingles vaccine, are single dose. You take a vile of vaccine powder and add one vile of diluent and give to a single individual.