Speculations on what X will do in overcapacity situation

[wrk2cruise]

They are going to open the gangway at 11 am and the first 1,000 onboard get to sail, the rest go home.

[cruisemom42]

On 3/27/2021 at 6:52 AM, Miaminice said:

The sailings as originally booked are and will be canceled - for all.

 

It may be simple to say this, but how will it be executed? Will Celebrity offer a lift and shift to these passengers or only a refund?  

 

I am one who has reservations in a "lowly" non-balcony cabin. It would be one thing if the cruise were canceled due to COVID (e.g., through no fault of the cruise line) and they offer my refund. End of story. But if Celebrity decides to do this AFTER already going through one "lift and shift" and two additional instances of them yanking my chain (change of itinerary initially, then original L&S, then another change of ship/itinerary), it will likely certainly leave me feeling I have been treated unfairly by X.

 

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It may be simple to say this, but how will it be executed? Will Celebrity offer a lift and shift to these passengers or only a refund?  

 

I am one who has reservations in a "lowly" non-balcony cabin. It would be one thing if the cruise were canceled due to COVID (e.g., through no fault of the cruise line) and they offer my refund. End of story. But if Celebrity decides to do this AFTER already going through one "lift and shift" and two additional instances of them yanking my chain (change of itinerary initially, then original L&S, then another change of ship/itinerary), it will likely certainly leave me feeling I have been treated unfairly by X.

 

Sorry... did I miss that Covid is gone ???

 

Cruises are still cancelled because Covid is still changing our world on a daily basis. If cruises are still not possible the way they were planned it’s certainly not because Celebrity want it that way.

 

You will get your refund if you wish. 
If a L & S is possible probably even that...

If you are unhappy about maybe losing a “bargain”... 🤔 I think some people have lost more than that due to Covid.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, Miaminice said:

If you are unhappy about maybe losing a “bargain”... 🤔 I think some people have lost more than that due to Covid.

 

A little harsh.

 

I am talking about sticking with Celebrity in good faith through several changes already, only to have them tell me it is the end of the road for this reservation that was initially made 3 years ago...

 

 

[Miaminice]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A little harsh.

 

I am talking about sticking with Celebrity in good faith through several changes already, only to have them tell me it is the end of the road for this reservation that was initially made 3 years ago...

 

 

Sorry if you think it is harsh... it’s pragmatic and reality. They can’t offer what isn’t there...

 

[NMTraveller]

Winners of the hairy chest contest?

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

Sorry if you think it is harsh... it’s pragmatic and reality. They can’t offer what isn’t there...

 

Sure, Celebrity is doing this for the money, of course, but I don't believe they are doing it to "take" the money so to speak.  I just feel like they must have been in close communications with the Greek government and have some assurances that totally vaccinated people can do this.  Of course, it is just speculation on my part, otherwise, it would be a PR nightmare if they were stringing folks along, I do not believe they are.  Time will tell...

Edited March 28, 2021 by LGW59

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Miaminice said:

Sorry if you think it is harsh... it’s pragmatic and reality. They can’t offer what isn’t there...

 

 

I don't understand your meaning.  I'm talking about the cruise sailing -- it is "there" -- but Celebrity decides to kick me and everyone else off "just because"?  

 

I'm not talking about a changed or different itinerary. But in either case I do feel that a lift and shift should be one of the offers at the least.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by cruisemom42

[phoenix_dream]

8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

In this day and age of computers it would be a simple task.

 

Whatever method they use will create a bunch of drama.

I don't mean to sound rude here, but have you paid any attention to their technology achievements (or better said, their lack there-of) over the past however many years?  Having spent many years managing projects, including those with large technical components, I agree it should be a simple program.  That said, Celebrity is not known for technology excellence regardless of the difficulty level of the programming.  I sincerely doubt they would have the ability to create any kind of system change other than a very, very simple one in the timeframe they would need one.  I would like to be wrong, but I doubt it.

[hcat]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A little harsh.

 

I am talking about sticking with Celebrity in good faith through several changes already, only to have them tell me it is the end of the road for this reservation that was initially made 3 years ago...

 

 

We generally feel the same way.  If we could get a refund to our credit card for our still outstanding  large FCC, we would pass on cruising til things settle down..but the FCC keeps us on the hook.....and  hopeful!

[jelayne]

Unless I’m dreaming there have been posts from some booked on the Apex for this summer whose cruises have been modified , including departure port, and Celebrity has  moved  them to a similar sailing departing from Greece at the same time.

 

Many of us have had multiple cruises upended, for us 2 L & S, 9 cancelled by X and 1 we cancelled  before they did.  One still in limbo but unlikely it will sail.  
For 2022 we have 4 booked with X and 1 with Azamara .  We are all trying to make the best of a ever changing situation for which there was no precedent to draw from.  When we did a L & S both X and we thought the cruises would happen, that didn’t work out,  but no ones fault. 

 I wouldn’t want to be LLP or Fain trying to keep a business afloat, creditors at bay and keep customers satisfied while  trying to get ships sailing and crew to man the ships when the situation can go from good  to bad ( Italy) in a short time.  

 

 

[Miaminice]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't understand your meaning.  I'm talking about the cruise sailing -- it is "there" -- but Celebrity decides to kick me and everyone else off "just because"?  

 

I'm not talking about a changed or different itinerary. But in either case I do feel that a lift and shift should be one of the offers at the least.

 

 

We seem to be talking about two different things...
which cruise is sailing as it was originally planned?

I don´t see any at the moment and none in the foreseeable future. The cruises sailing - like Apex with Celebrity, or Jewel etc. with RCL - are nothing like the cruises as planned and booked. They are new itineraries and new sailings.

 

 

[LGW59]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't understand your meaning.  I'm talking about the cruise sailing -- it is "there" -- but Celebrity decides to kick me and everyone else off "just because"?  

 

I'm not talking about a changed or different itinerary. But in either case I do feel that a lift and shift should be one of the offers at the least.

 

what do you mean "kicking me and everyone else off just because"?

[Miaminice]

9 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Sure, Celebrity is doing this for the money, of course, but I don't believe they are doing it to "take" the money so to speak.  I just feel like they must have been in close communications with the Greek government and have some assurances that totally vaccinated people can do this.  Of course, it is just speculation on my part, otherwise, it would be a PR nightmare if they were stringing folks along, I do not believe they are.  Time will tell...

 

This is what I am trying to tell you and others...
Maybe they have, maybe they haven´t. Facts are that Greece and other countries in Europe have been opening and closing for tourism more than once over the past months as a reaction to the incident rates in the countries. However, this was and is only relevant to countries or citizens of countries of the EU or the Schengen area. Plus other nationalities allowed to enter the Schengen Area.

No country of the EU/Schengen Area can open their national border alone. The Schengen outside border is seen as one single border. So unless the EU/Schengen Area decides to let US citizens into the EU, Celebrity or any other cruise line can talk to Greece as long as they want. It is as if Florida alone wanted to open the US borders to tourists from the EU - they can´t!

 

And since opening the borders to US citizens is closely linked to the bann of EU citizens to enter the US and the latter was just extended, chances for a change are not good.

Celebrity have no say in this. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Miaminice

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

 

This is what I am trying to tell you and others...
Maybe they have, maybe they haven´t. Facts are that Greece and other countries in Europe have been opening and closing for tourism over the past months as a reaction to the incident rates in the countries. However, this was and is only relevant to countries or citizens of countries of the EU or the Schengen area. Plus other nationalities allowed to enter the Schengen Area.

No country of the EU/Schengen Area can open their national border alone. The Schengen outside border is seen as one single border. So unless the EU decides to let US citizens into the EU, Celebrity or any other cruise line can talk to Greece as long as they want. It is as if Florida alone wanted to open the US borders to tourists from the EU - they can´t!

 

And since opening the borders to US citizens is closely linked to the bann of EU citizens to enter the US and the latter was just extended, chances for a change are not good.

Celebrity have no say in this. 

 

 

Yes you have certainly been harping on ad infinitum about this as much as you can on as many threads as you can!  Spout off all you want, I am NOT trying to get to EU, was simply relaying what I have read re Celebrity statements.  Did you see something I said where anything was fact?  I can answer that to save you the time, NO!!! 

[Miaminice]

15 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes you have certainly been harping on ad infinitum about this as much as you can on as many threads as you can!  Spout off all you want, I am NOT trying to get to EU, was simply relaying what I have read re Celebrity statements.  Did you see something I said where anything was fact?  I can answer that to save you the time, NO!!! 

 

1. LOL - For someone whose name pops up in just about third post in every thread over and over again you are throwing pretty big rocks in a very small glass house 🙂

2. I am not disputing your statement in this case but simply tried to give you some background of the regulations in the EU which is conveniently ignored or simply not known by most cruise addicts here.

 

Obviously you seem to claim the right to "spouting" all for yourself - rest asured... I won´t challenge it!

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

rest asured... I won´t challenge it!  You just did 🙄 just put me on ignore, you will not need to see any of my posts going forward.

 

[Miaminice]

23 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

 

 

🙂🙄 Another classic "Yes dear" moment...

[CroozFanatic]

7 hours ago, hcat said:

We generally feel the same way.  If we could get a refund to our credit card for our still outstanding  large FCC, we would pass on cruising til things settle down..but the FCC keeps us on the hook.....and  hopeful!

 

You may get your chance. If Celebrity goes full vaccine...they may give refunds going all the way back to the beginning of the pandemic for those who refuse...just like Virgin Voyages has done.

[ipeeinthepool]

3 hours ago, Miaminice said:

 

This is what I am trying to tell you and others...
Maybe they have, maybe they haven´t. Facts are that Greece and other countries in Europe have been opening and closing for tourism more than once over the past months as a reaction to the incident rates in the countries. However, this was and is only relevant to countries or citizens of countries of the EU or the Schengen area. Plus other nationalities allowed to enter the Schengen Area.

No country of the EU/Schengen Area can open their national border alone. The Schengen outside border is seen as one single border. So unless the EU/Schengen Area decides to let US citizens into the EU, Celebrity or any other cruise line can talk to Greece as long as they want. It is as if Florida alone wanted to open the US borders to tourists from the EU - they can´t!

 

And since opening the borders to US citizens is closely linked to the bann of EU citizens to enter the US and the latter was just extended, chances for a change are not good.

Celebrity have no say in this. 

 

 

 

So what about Israel?   You better go tell Royal they won't be able to visit Greece when they start sailing.

[laslomas]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't understand your meaning.  I'm talking about the cruise sailing -- it is "there" -- but Celebrity decides to kick me and everyone else off "just because"?  

 

I'm not talking about a changed or different itinerary. But in either case I do feel that a lift and shift should be one of the offers at the least.

 

 

I am with you on this, I get what you mean by "just because". I have a sailing booked on Silhouette in October from Southampton. Currently all the Silhouette sailings up to 8th September have been removed from the website and Celebrity have announced "Celebrity Silhouette UK Summer Season 2021" with a range of around UK Sailings available to book from next week. I hope October remains unchanged. At least I know that Silhouette will be in UK waters.

If my cruise is still going ahead, but overbooked, as everyone agrees, there needs to be a way to reduce capacity and as suggested it is possible some may volunteer to cancel. I am not sure that Celebrity could cancel everyone on a cruise if that cruise is still going ahead.  In The T&C I am reading, in the case they make a significant change, or cancel this is what they offer:

 

"purchasing an alternative holiday from us, of a similar standard to that originally booked if available. We will offer you at least one alternative holiday of equivalent or higher standard for which you will not be asked to pay any more than the price of the original holiday. If this holiday is in fact cheaper than the original one, we will refund the price difference. If you do not wish to accept the holiday we specifically offer you, you may choose any of our other then available holidays. You must pay the applicable price of any such holiday. This will mean you paying more if it is more expensive or receiving a refund if it is cheaper. 

 

So from reading that I hope I can still have a cruise, in October, at the price I already booked. Even better if it is the itinerary I booked and the cabin I booked (large angled balcony). Keeping my fingers crossed. 

[Miaminice]

27 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

So what about Israel?   You better go tell Royal they won't be able to visit Greece when they start sailing.

 

Why would I ? As of my knowledge Israelis are not banned - and those cruises are for Israelis only.

Anyway... as you seem to dispute my information, this is the statement of the US embassy regarding US and Greece: 
"Greece will currently only allow EU citizens, EU residents, and residents of certain other specific countries to enter. The United States is not one of those countries.  U.S. citizens traveling to Greece will not be permitted to enter unless they meet one of only a few narrow exceptions detailed in the Greek Embassy’s information on entrance into the European Union/Schengen Area.  There is no projected date when entry will be permitted.  A long visit in a third country will not help you get around EU restrictions."

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Miaminice

[ipeeinthepool]

32 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

... as you seem to dispute my information, this is the statement of the US embassy regarding US and Greece: 
"Greece will currently only allow EU citizens, EU residents, and residents of certain other specific countries to enter. The United States is not one of those countries.  U.S. citizens traveling to Greece will not be permitted to enter unless they meet one of only a few narrow exceptions detailed in the Greek Embassy’s information on entrance into the European Union/Schengen Area.  There is no projected date when entry will be permitted.  A long visit in a third country will not help you get around EU restrictions."

 

 

Yep, you are correct.  I do dispute your interpretation of the possibility of US citizens to visit Greece this summer.  The US embassy is correct and they have published their interpretation.  Greek officials know their intentions better that US diplomats.  I'm sure that Celebrity has reached an agreement with the Greek government.

 

Here's something to remember this summer when the Apex sails from Greece.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[Miaminice]

27 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Yep, you are correct.  I do dispute your interpretation of the possibility of US citizens to visit Greece this summer.  The US embassy is correct and they have published their interpretation.  Greek officials know their intentions better that US diplomats.  I'm sure that Celebrity has reached an agreement with the Greek government.

 

Here's something to remember this summer when the Apex sails from Greece.

 

 

 

 

👍 Look, I wish we could all travel and cruise as we hope to.

However, I also know the European border policies - it is considered one border.
And just like let´s say Florida couldn´t say : "hey let´s bring in the tourists" which are banned by federal law or regulations, Greece can´t just say they will open the borders because it is considered entry to the EU.

Today I have heard another information originating  from the Celebrity sales dept which would make cruising for most outside the US impossible. However, it´s so absurd, that I hope it was just a false information 😵

Edited March 29, 2021 by Miaminice

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, Miaminice said:

 

We seem to be talking about two different things...
which cruise is sailing as it was originally planned?

I don´t see any at the moment and none in the foreseeable future. The cruises sailing - like Apex with Celebrity, or Jewel etc. with RCL - are nothing like the cruises as planned and booked. They are new itineraries and new sailings.

 

 

 

Infinity has not changed.