Florida Governor bans vaccine passports

[hvbaskey]

15 hours ago, KWW88 said:

From they way I read the information, no person shall be required to provide proof of vaccine, but IMO a private business can say ok we understand that, but we still are not allowing passengers to board without proof.  Unfortunately, you will not be able to board one of our ships.  Not a lawyer so I do not know this with certainty, but private businesses do get to make their rules and policies.

 

Agree!    as the ole’ saying goes ... “No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service”.

[hcat]

9 hours ago, Oville said:

Your experience in FL WAS not typical.  It took us over 2 months to get appointments and had to travel to the other coast.  And yes FACT,  here where we live wealthy communities were and continue to be targeted over the general public.

Whether you realize it or not I can pretty much guess your political leaning based on your posts and I’m probably not alone.

 

 

Seems people had varied experiences in securing vaccinations depending on location and  availability from Fed gov.  Thankfully most who want the shots can  now get them..Easier in some places.  Now some are getting home delivery if they have no means to travel...great idea!

 

We " lined up " like everyone else for our turn. We had plans to attend  a special day birthday celebration out of state so we made a daily effort to get vaccinated.  Fortunately,  both of us were in the eligible age category under Fl Seniors First effort. We used the internet on an old laptop  (very slow) and  watched the  little circle swirl around quite a bit like many others. 

 

We  eventually signed up on  lottery style lists for  Sarasota, Manatee,  and Charlotte Co,  all places near us. We also signed up by tel call to DeSoto Co, near our first home in Fl.  That came through first so we took it, esp since it was at a hosp clinic and dh has shellfish  allergies. Got calls from other places  after that but were happy with driving to Arcadia for our shots.

 

Also helped neighbors and friends in Naples to find slots as their County was not easy to book.  Lee County seemed to be better...

 

Looking forward to cruising in 2022!

Hope it happens for those looking forward to it.  It will be diff but hopefully still  enjoyable.

 

 

[morechances]

15 hours ago, KWW88 said:

With so many of the embarkation ports based from FL, I would think a large number of cruisers live there.  Those who love to cruise, and either choose to not get a vaccine (not judgmental, we all have this choice) , or not want to show their proof, seems to me will be most effected.  I don't really know how I feel about a database, but I do believe, cruisers should provide proof of having had the vaccine.  Cruise lines are saying this now, hope it is followed up on.

It is not just the cruise lines,  but also other municipalities that the ships travel to. If a ship is going to country B, and that country requires proof of vaccination, the ship is responsible to collect the data. 

Same as airlines. When you fly to another country, the airline checks your eligibility PRIOR to allowing you to board. 

That is their responsibility. 

Cruise ships have that same responsibility. 

So, if a ship is prohibited ( as this is currently written) then it is pretty simple..... ships will not dock in Florida. 

 

I will not be anywhere near a ship until the mandatory vaccination is in place. 

[morechances]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Except what will happen is that some legal genius will suggest that some of these protected classes are at a greater disadvantage and are not being vaccinated at the same rate.  Then some court will agree and businesses will not be allowed to follow this common sense approach.  

Still will not matter, cruise ships go to other countries, and those places will have rules in place. 

 

And either itineraries will work, or they will change. 

 

Not sure about others, but I am sure that my butt will never be on a cruise that only sails to non vaccine required countries. 

[morechances]

11 hours ago, mom says said:

Question for the armchair  legal  experts- if your federal government (CBD?) required a vaccine passport or certificate for entry into the country, wouldn't that supercede any governor issued edict in Florida, as far as cruising goes?

Does not matter. Ships will simply not stop in Florida 

[DirtyDawg]

We don't need any government issued proof of vaccination.  If Celebrity wants my proof of vaccination before I can board the ship it's right here.

 

 

[morechances]

4 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

We don't need any government issued proof of vaccination.  If Celebrity wants my proof of vaccination before I can board the ship it's right here.

 

 

Exactly the problem 

[CruiserRob]

15 hours ago, baldilocks said:

 I do not like being potentially placed in a government or big tech data base about my travels.

Can you travel outside of the country now without the government knowing and being in a database?

[naturelovergirl]

Time will tell here in Florida...

We are an “interesting” state, to say the least... 

Fact is...

Tourism fuels our state’s economy... and sooo many people who live here work with the public... so many have had our lives and careers massively affected by the pandemic.

 

I cannot speak in regards to politics and how they pontificate over the issues... but I can speak in regards to the actual people I know who have been affected by the pandemic... many many many want the vaccine and also want industries essential to Florida like the cruise industry, hospitality, and performing arts to be able to return and thrive.

 

For those who don’t know... Florida opens up vaccine eligibility tomorrow for 16+ and older... and (at least here in central FL) we also have some very big FEMA sites for mass vaccinations on top of our pharmacies and county health departments. 

So access to the vaccine is absolutely increasing in our state... 

 

I do think that proof of vaccination will be a factor for travel in the future... and certainly for people who dream of international travel.

So... I cannot see that having proof of vaccinations won’t happen for those of us in Florida who want to travel... but how that comes to pass will be the question.

 

It shall be curious to see how it all plays out.

[Nancycat]

Proof of vaccination is not new with Covid, there are many places that you need vaccines to visit.

if Covid only affected the individual that is one thing, but it is a potential death sentence for some. 
Travel and cruises are optional, as are vaccines and masks, but public health and safety come first. If you don’t want to be vaccinated or follow guidelines stay home.

I don’t see why this is any different than what we all everyday for public safety.

 

[Big Tiger Fan]

DH and I are fully vaccinated. We have no issue with providing proof of this to any entity, be it a business or a cruise line. We feel all of the opposition to a vaccine passport is shortsighted and nonsense. We have to provide “proof” of many things almost daily if you will stop and think about it instead of shouting “my rights” which I am very tired of hearing. “Your rights” stop at “my rights” and are not blank checks to trample over others. 
If you  choose to not get vaccinated then you should not expect to do what the rest of us do. As a previous poster quoted “No shoes No shirt No service.” I love it!

 

 

[Homosassa]

I have copied a post I made on another thread about the loopholes in the Florida Executive Order that still provide for the Covid 19 screenings (including vaccination status):

 

Close reading of the Desantis'  Executive Order shows it to be a masterpiece of appearing to support total banning of Covid 19 screening by proof of vaccination status. However, it has two big loopholes that allows just that while placating a certain group of citizens. 

 

Section 1 from Desantis' Executive Order on Vaccination Passports contain a key few words that most  have missed.  

 

This section prohibits Florida State agencies from providing information to third parties for the purpose of proving an individual's Covid 19 vaccination status. It does not prohibit Florida residents from obtaining their individual information and then providing the information to a third party to obtain a Covid 19 passport or to prove proof of vaccinations. 

 

Section 5 also states that no business is prohibited from establishing Covid 19 screening procedures to ensure public health and that a private individual has the right to request health (vaccination) information for themselves.

 

Attached is a link to the Executive Order for those who wish to read it for themselves:

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf 

 

As far as cruiselines not being able to request proof of vaccination before cruising out if Florida ports, it may cause some problems at the pier. However, there is a work around. We have to remember that once on board a ship, one is no longer in Florida. 

 

During booking, if one is told that only vaccinated passengers are allowed and proof of vaccination is required, the ship may simply do the vaccination verification as one's foot hits the deck of the ship. No proof, one is escorted off the ship by security.

 

Of course this is an unnecessary hassle for the cruiseline and I can see where some other US ports may be used instead of Florida (Mobile, New Orleans, Galveston come to mind).

 

[marieps]

Relax folks.  First off, the title of the thread is a bit inaccurate.  Here's the Order:

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

The governor is ordering no FLORIDA gov't agency shall issue a vax passport.  State agencies don't issue passports.  They do issue vaccination records, and as citizens we can request our own.

 

The order further bans FLORIDA businesses from requiring vax proof before offering service.  Cruise ships are not Florida businesses.  They are foreign entities doing business in Florida and elsewhere.  I think the order is written this way be design.  This order will not affect cruise operations.  IMHO.

 

Beyond that, the order itself is somewhat silly.  As had been noted by others, you need vax proof to have your child attend public school.  This is virtually nationwide.   IMHO, the governor did not consider his audience when issuing this order...at least he didn't consider the cruise community.  We, as a whole, do not consider a vax requirement a burden, or an invasion of privacy.  We consider it a necessity.  

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by marieps

[KWW88]

16 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

The way that the executive order is worded, however, forbids local agencies to provide any such "passport or pass" to anyone for purposes of using it to gain entrance to a place with a mask mandate.

 

Let's suppose the cruise lines determine that the vaunted "vaccination card" is too easily duplicated and requires instead some type of electronic passport or proof.

 

What are Florida citizens (who make up a large percentage of Florida cruisers) to do then??

Perhaps it could be an opt in thing, those that want to can do it, especially if they want to cruise.  If you have a driver license, passport, state ID card, SS card etc then you are already in many databases.  

[goofysmom99]

49 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

Perhaps it could be an opt in thing, those that want to can do it, especially if they want to cruise.  If you have a driver license, passport, state ID card, SS card etc then you are already in many databases.  

Agree.  And if you've gone to the trouble to obtain a known traveler number, you've given waaay more information (background check and fingerprints).  I'd love to be able to just add the vaccine info to that.

[AstoriaPreppy]

19 hours ago, baldilocks said:

I do not like being potentially placed in a government or big tech data base about my travels

Sorry to burst your bubble,  but if you’ve been on a plane or a cruise since 2001, you are 100% in government databases that are actively tracking you. 
 

On top of that, corporate databases are ridicously insidious. The most popular search engine and social network track you continuously online while collecting data on everything... not just thing you click on,  but things you scroll past, hover over and don’t click, etc. 

 

There’s a lot of valid arguments against vaccine passports, but “being tracked” is not one of them. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by AstoriaPreppy

[Baron Barracuda]

CDC director has described our current situation as a race between vaccinations and variants.  Can't see CDC allowing non-vaccinated passengers or crew to sail to foreign ports and possibly bring back new covid variants.  This is a federal issue which is above DeSantis' pay grade.

[AstoriaPreppy]

2 hours ago, marieps said:

IMHO, the governor did not consider his audience when issuing this order...at least he didn't consider the cruise community.  We, as a whole, do not consider a vax requirement a burden, or an invasion of privacy.  We consider it a necessity.  

Eh, have you been on the NCL board lately? It’s actively live free or die these days. I’ve been shouted down repeatedly for reminding people that freestyle cruising is a marketing slogan for offering multiple up charge restaurants you can wear shorts in, not an endorsement of don’t tread on me Q conspiracy theories. 

[DSJ28]

37 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

CDC director has described our current situation as a race between vaccinations and variants.  Can't see CDC allowing non-vaccinated passengers or crew to sail to foreign ports and possibly bring back new covid variants.  This is a federal issue which is above DeSantis' pay grade.

👆  What he said.

[crusinthrough]

As a private business cruise lines are in control of what will be required to perform their business.  The governor does not determine this.  If the governor says vaccination proof cannot and will not be required from a cruise line, a cruise line can decide not to operate or operate from other states.  The baffling part is that this is the direct opposite of the governor trying to get the cruise industry started again because of lost tourism revenue.

 

Looks like the governor will have to pick a fight. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Many posts in this thread were posted and meant to be very political in nature. Whether you like the Gov of Florida or lean towards him politically should not be presented in this thread or your arguement. 

 

If you chose to be vaccinated, that is your personal choice. You choice was based on your best needs. Your protection. Likewise, if someone else chooses not be vaccinated then so be it. It is their choice. It is their lack of protection. Limiting someone to attend, eat, drink, relax, shop, vacation etc should not be based on vaccines. Remember, if you're vaxed up, you're protected.  I'm vaxed up. I'm good to go. My DW has decided at this time not to have the vaccine administered. I respect her choice and her decision.  Today,  all retailers, restaurants airlines, etc, have no working knowlege if I, my wife, or you are vaccinated. Nor should they either. They can require me to wear a mask if they like, but not to present a ofrm of identification of whether the vaccine has been administered. Please keep in mind that this vaccine has NOT been approved but for emergency use only. 

 

We can all agree to disagree but bringing your political point of view into this thread is wrong by the standards of Cruise Critics and they should be removed and future posted of this nature stopped immediately. There is no room for it. I have reported each and every post that has done this. I'm very curious to see which direction the admins and moderators take. 

[Fouremco]

4 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I'm vaxed up. I'm good to go. My DW has decided at this time not to have the vaccine administered. I respect her choice and her decision.

So will you be cruising solo? 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

6 hours ago, hvbaskey said:

 

Agree!    as the ole’ saying goes ... “No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service”.

 

Telling a patron that they need to wear a shirt or shoes is one thing, but to tell a patron they will not be served because they have elected to not take a vaccine that has been rushed through and not approved as most drugs are is wrong. The appearance of someone barefoot may offend you at a nice restaurant but if that same person had shoes on but was not vaccinated, you would never even know it. So this arguement is very lame and ineffective. 

 

 

[mnocket]

There will always be disagreement when it comes to government's proper role in controlling its citizens.  While one person sees a "vaccination passport" as the start of a slippery slope, others see it as a harmless aid to facilitate safe travel.  These opposing viewpoints are not going be resolved.

 

In such situations I ask myself....  Is it truly necessary?

 

My conclusion is that it is not.

• Many schools have long required proof of vaccinations for its students.  We have accomplished this without vaccination passports.
• International travelers have sometimes been required to present proof of vaccination in order to enter certain countries.  We have accomplished this without vaccination passports.

I'm sure there are other examples.  The bottom line is that we have satisfied the need to establish vaccination status without a vaccination passport.

 

As for the potential downside to issuing vaccination passports....

It would be so easy for a vaccination passport to morph into a "health" or "fitness to travel" passport. 

 

Remember a few months back when we were discussing cruise lines wanting a doctor's note clearing passengers of a certain age to cruise?  Once a vaccination passport exists, it's not unimaginable to think that cruise lines might want such doctor's certifications added to the "passport".

 

Another example.....  is it totally unthinkable that perhaps the travel industry would like to see a "mobility score" added to the passport?  It would certainly help them decide which passengers were appropriate for which tours.

 

There are many other ways a vaccination passport may morph into something larger.  This has the potential to take the decision for travel modes and experiences away from the individual and place it in the hands of travel providers.  You can no longer do xyz because your travel passport makes you undesirable to the travel provider.  Sure there are legitimate reasons for travel restrictions, but a "health passport" would open the door to all kinds of subtle discrimination.  Do you want to take that chance?

Edited April 4, 2021 by mnocket

[hvbaskey]

10 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Telling a patron that they need to wear a shirt or shoes is one thing, but to tell a patron they will not be served because they have elected to not take a vaccine that has been rushed through and not approved as most drugs are is wrong. The appearance of someone barefoot may offend you at a nice restaurant but if that same person had shoes on but was not vaccinated, you would never even know it. So this arguement is very lame and ineffective. 

 

 

My point was a business can set their own rules.  Don’t like the rules? Then don’t be a patron of said business.  Simple as that.