Woohoo Australia/New Zealand Travel Bubble

[OzKiwiJJ]

I know you don't want to hear this but I think the decision to close our borders to visitors from the majority of overseas countries is wise to limit the risk of outbreaks in Australia. There is a limit as to how many arrivals our quarantine system can handle and Australian residents should have priority.

 

However blocking Australians from leaving is a bit stupid. Anyone should be free to leave but then they must stay away until our border opens to whatever countries they've gone to. If they try to sneak back before that they should be sent to Christmas Island until the pandemic is over.

[MMDown Under]

5 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I know you don't want to hear this but I think the decision to close our borders to visitors from the majority of overseas countries is wise to limit the risk of outbreaks in Australia. There is a limit as to how many arrivals our quarantine system can handle and Australian residents should have priority.

 

However blocking Australians from leaving is a bit stupid. Anyone should be free to leave but then they must stay away until our border opens to whatever countries they've gone to. If they try to sneak back before that they should be sent to Christmas Island until the pandemic is over.

Agree Australians should be able to leave Australia, as long as they understand they may not be able to come back because of the virus.  I have a friend currently living in the US, whose whole family lives in Australia.  Prior to the virus, she came home twice a year.  She has managed to come home from the US once since the pandemic.  I can't imagine what it would be like to not know when you would see all the members of your close family again.  This is what our Aussies who have relatives living overseas must feel.  

[Blackduck59]

2 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I know you don't want to hear this but I think the decision to close our borders to visitors from the majority of overseas countries is wise to limit the risk of outbreaks in Australia. There is a limit as to how many arrivals our quarantine system can handle and Australian residents should have priority.

 

Julie, believe it or not I agree with you. Closing your international border is still appropriate at this time. My beef as should be that of many Australians is that your "leader" seems to think that indefinitely even up until 2023 is an appropriate mind set. His mind set should be we need to get our population vaccinated RFN and move everything to make it so.

I see that there will be charter flights bringing people in from India starting in a week, is this at tax payer expense?

A leader would set a goal and challenge the people to meet it. Take a page out of the current administration in that large country to the south of mine. He said 100 million doses in my first 100 days, people weary from the former "leader" thought no way the new guy can do that. Well big surprise it was closer to 200 million doses administered. Funny thing what leadership can do.

[NSWP]

5 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Julie, believe it or not I agree with you. Closing your international border is still appropriate at this time. My beef as should be that of many Australians is that your "leader" seems to think that indefinitely even up until 2023 is an appropriate mind set. His mind set should be we need to get our population vaccinated RFN and move everything to make it so.

I see that there will be charter flights bringing people in from India starting in a week, is this at tax payer expense?

A leader would set a goal and challenge the people to meet it. Take a page out of the current administration in that large country to the south of mine. He said 100 million doses in my first 100 days, people weary from the former "leader" thought no way the new guy can do that. Well big surprise it was closer to 200 million doses administered. Funny thing what leadership can do.

Lyle, another problem here is reportedly 40% to 50% of people are refusing to be vaccinated. Irriots. 

[Blackduck59]

21 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Lyle, another problem here is reportedly 40% to 50% of people are refusing to be vaccinated. Irriots. 

 

That is because your "leader" is not calling BS on the whole blood clot thing, and also not working at getting more of the Pfizer vaccine or looking at Moderna. His message is "we'll just hole up" and everything will be fine.

[OzKiwiJJ]

7 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

That is because your "leader" is not calling BS on the whole blood clot thing, and also not working at getting more of the Pfizer vaccine or looking at Moderna. His message is "we'll just hole up" and everything will be fine.

The government has already ordered more Pfizer but it's not expected to start arriving until later this year, assuming they don't block another shipment. Anyway there are other places in the world that need it more than we do. We also have an another one on order (Novovax?) but that won't start arriving until the end of the year either. 

 

You.must remember that some countries rushed the vaccine approvals through under emergency conditions. Australia and NZ did not need to do that so were later starting their vaccination program. 

 

 And our illustrious leader hasn't got the guts to ensure the full facts on blood clots are publicized ie 4 chances in a million of getting vaccine related blood clots, 8-10 times that risk if you catch the virus, and 1,200 in a million Australians are diagnosed with blood clots every year without any help from Covid-19 or a vaccine. 

[ilikeanswers]

It doesn't help the media reports on every individual clot after an AZ shot. Where was this reporting pre pandemic🙄? Blood clots weren't so newsworthy before 😒. The main issue though is supply. Like the EU, Australia assumed supply would be easy so never thought to make those special deals they Israel made in order to be first served. Instead we are at the back of the line while the line has been halted😳. 

[frantic36]

30 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

It doesn't help the media reports on every individual clot after an AZ shot. Where was this reporting pre pandemic🙄? Blood clots weren't so newsworthy before 😒. 

 

The other day I was watching a briefing by the Professor who heads the TGA which I found very interesting. He mentioned that of 163 reported cases of blood clots that were reported post vaccine only 11 were linked to the vaccination. They look for markers in the patients to help determine causality. This includes, thrombocytopenia, a portion which is found in the blood clots and a few other things. That is why it takes awhile to determine if the case is vaccine related or not.

 

What frustrates me is the media seem to report every case prior to the results of causality and rarely seem to report when the clotting incidence is found not to be related to the vaccine.

[ilikeanswers]

5 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

The other day I was watching a briefing by the Professor who heads the TGA which I found very interesting. He mentioned that of 163 reported cases of blood clots that were reported post vaccine only 11 were linked to the vaccination. They look for markers in the patients to help determine causality. This includes, thrombocytopenia, a portion which is found in the blood clots and a few other things. That is why it takes awhile to determine if the case is vaccine related or not.

 

What frustrates me is the media seem to report every case prior to the results of causality and rarely seem to report when the clotting incidence is found not to be related to the vaccine.

 

That is the sort of thing that should be broadcast on all the news but instead we will get another report of another clot after an AZ shot😒 and then hear nothing about the follow up. 

[possum52]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

That is the sort of thing that should be broadcast on all the news but instead we will get another report of another clot after an AZ shot😒 and then hear nothing about the follow up. 

THe reporting of clots is really frustrating me. Surely whoever is releasing the information should only be doing so when/if any connection to the vaccine is found. 

Leigh

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

This includes, thrombocytopenia, a portion which is found in the blood clots

 

I just realised my error in this comment. I meant to say protein not portion.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, possum52 said:

THe reporting of clots is really frustrating me. Surely whoever is releasing the information should only be doing so when/if any connection to the vaccine is found. 

Leigh

Yes, it should. I don't know why they are doing this scaremongering.

[Aus Traveller]

9 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Yes, it should. I don't know why they are doing this scaremongering.

It makes news. If there were no side effects from the vaccination, it wouldn't make the news. Similarly, they won't report the vast majority of cases where there are minor side effects.

[OzKiwiJJ]

3 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

It makes news. If there were no side effects from the vaccination, it wouldn't make the news. Similarly, they won't report the vast majority of cases where there are minor side effects.

Yeah. I don't believe in censorship but I wish there was a way of reining in the media for a while. They are just making things worse.

[icat2000]

36 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Yeah. I don't believe in censorship but I wish there was a way of reining in the media for a while. They are just making things worse.

Well reining in would be a form of censorship.

 

I think Morrison needs to get some different vaccines and then people can have options. At the moment there only 1 choice and people are going hmmm nope.

 

Blame the EU. They didn't give us the vaccines that Australian ordered and paid for.

Edited May 9, 2021 by icat2000

[OzKiwiJJ]

29 minutes ago, icat2000 said:

Well reining in would be a form of censorship.

Yes, I know but I'm sick of the type of reporting that takes a grain of truth and expands it into a sensalionalist article. Such as reporting every little blood clot case of a vaccinated person, whether it's related or not, without putting the whole thing into perspective.

[VanessaNJ]

9 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I know you don't want to hear this but I think the decision to close our borders to visitors from the majority of overseas countries is wise to limit the risk of outbreaks in Australia. There is a limit as to how many arrivals our quarantine system can handle and Australian residents should have priority.

 

However blocking Australians from leaving is a bit stupid. Anyone should be free to leave but then they must stay away until our border opens to whatever countries they've gone to. If they try to sneak back before that they should be sent to Christmas Island until the pandemic is over.

I agree that our boarders aren’t ready to be an open free for all. However this isn’t actually what people here are advocating for. We’re advocating for a similar arrangement to places like Israel.  Cruises locally and perhaps even to NZ for Aus and NZ citizens and residents only. No international passengers, no trans Atlantic cruises. Quarantined crew, perhaps even vaccinated crew and passengers. 

[Aus Traveller]

I read in a newspaper article about tomorrow budget, that the government doesn't expect to open our borders until 2022. Of course, this isn't a statement by the government, just a newspaper article. However, it doesn't look good for cruising at the end of this year.

[NSWP]

Well with so many people refusing the vaccination, it will only prolong the border closures, air and sea. So folks get jabbed, your refusal is impacting on others that want to travel.

[pully8]

It was unfortunate that the vaccine from Queensland had to withdraw because that would have assisted supply. They are trying to restart it once problems are sorted.

Supply remains an issue even with our small population albeit a spread out one.

Most other countries have a few vaccine options.

Perhaps this time next year more will be know about vaccines and dosages, including boosters with the new variants. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

12 hours ago, VanessaNJ said:

I agree that our boarders aren’t ready to be an open free for all. However this isn’t actually what people here are advocating for. We’re advocating for a similar arrangement to places like Israel.  Cruises locally and perhaps even to NZ for Aus and NZ citizens and residents only. No international passengers, no trans Atlantic cruises. Quarantined crew, perhaps even vaccinated crew and passengers. 

Yes, I am aware of that and have posted many time on exactly that topic. However my post that you quoted had nothing to do with the possible resumption of Australian cruises per se, it was purely about the continuance of border closures as part of an ongoing discussion at the time.

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I read in a newspaper article about tomorrow budget, that the government doesn't expect to open our borders until 2022. Of course, this isn't a statement by the government, just a newspaper article. However, it doesn't look good for cruising at the end of this year.

Apart from needing special exemptions for the crews to arrive in Australia having our borders open doesn't necessarily equate to no cruising. If passenger numbers are restricted to ensure social distancing then there will be no problems filling the ships with Australian and NZ passengers.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Now here is a classic case of irresponsible headlining:

 

"The early results are in: Two-thirds of Australian COVID sufferers are in for the long haul"

 

Then the first paragraph of the article states: "Experts have been tracking the long-term health outcomes of Australians recovering from severe COVID-19 disease, and early results show roughly two in three people have ongoing issues."

 

OK, so not everyone who gets COVID, just severe cases!

 

Further on in the article we read this: "Dubbed the COVID Recovery Study, experts have been interviewing about 200 COVID-19 patients to learn more about outcomes six to 12 months after infection."

 

So a study of 200 COVID patients leads to a headline implying two-thirds of all COVID patients will have long term effects.

 

Admittedly in this case I'm all in favour of this particular headline, it might encourage more people to get vaccinated.  😊

 

Source: ABC online news.

 

 

 

[heddyjan]

Filling the ships is not the problem ..... crewing the ships is the problem.

Most of the crew comes from the Philippines. I know some crew there and they haven’t been vaccinated. I was going to offer to purchase some vaccine for them (for their safety, not just job security) and all vaccines are distributed through the government. Private clinics are not permitted to obtain and sell vaccines).

i feel so sorry for the overseas crew. No social safety net. They have to fend for themselves as they are employed (for Princess) but by local agencies. Many are really struggling. 

We want to cruise but these lovely people just want to earn a living to feed their families.

 

[By The Bay]

12 minutes ago, heddyjan said:

I was going to offer to purchase some vaccine for them (for their safety, not just job security) and all vaccines are distributed through the government. Private clinics are not permitted to obtain and sell vaccines).

There is a valid reason why vaccines are not sold. A black market would quickly develop. This hasn't stopped some trying to sell so-called "vaccines".