CDC issues test cruise instructions

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

That was a bit tongue in cheek. I mean since there is that act (not jones but that other one) that requires non-US ships to make out of US stops before returning, one can imply that the US wants the ship flagged in the US, no?  Why else have the order?  

The PVSA is to restrict domestic passenger service to US flag vessels.  This is to ensure that domestic passenger travel is covered by USCG regulations, which are stricter than those imposed on foreign flag ships.  But, there are even US flag ships that cannot do domestic trade.  But, if a ship makes a foreign port call, then it is in "foreign trade", and the US cannot enforce their stricter regulations on them, only those set by the IMO.  But since the ship spends most of its time outside the US, it is not as important to the US as a vessel, like a ferry, commuter boat, dinner cruise, casino cruise, sight-seeing, or whale watching vessel that spends its entire time in US waters.  These vessels were the original intent of the PVSA, and are still regulated by the Act.  The problem is that since the US is signatory to SOLAS, and the definition of a "passenger vessel" is listed in SOLAS (any vessel that carries more than 12 people for hire), cruise ships are lumped together with a water taxi as "passenger vessels".

[Redwing55]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

The PVSA is to restrict domestic passenger service to US flag vessels.  This is to ensure that domestic passenger travel is covered by USCG regulations, which are stricter than those imposed on foreign flag ships.  But, there are even US flag ships that cannot do domestic trade.  But, if a ship makes a foreign port call, then it is in "foreign trade", and the US cannot enforce their stricter regulations on them, only those set by the IMO.  But since the ship spends most of its time outside the US, it is not as important to the US as a vessel, like a ferry, commuter boat, dinner cruise, casino cruise, sight-seeing, or whale watching vessel that spends its entire time in US waters.  These vessels were the original intent of the PVSA, and are still regulated by the Act.  The problem is that since the US is signatory to SOLAS, and the definition of a "passenger vessel" is listed in SOLAS (any vessel that carries more than 12 people for hire), cruise ships are lumped together with a water taxi as "passenger vessels".

I don't know.. or care.. about the details. I just know that when they cruise to Hawaii, and Alaska, some stupid rule forces the lines to stop in a non US port.  And NCL has maybe one ship??? that doesn't have to do this and I think it stays in Hawaii.  So whatever it takes to stop this requirement, I'm in.  Let's leave this discussion elsewhere as it's really going off this topic.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

So whatever it takes to stop this requirement, I'm in. 

The several hundred thousand US citizens employed in the PVSA trade would disagree with you.

[Redwing55]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

The several hundred thousand US citizens employed in the PVSA trade would disagree with you.

Great, so the lines stop on non-US ports as the work around.  So tell me again how that matter?  So instead of maybe a SanFran to San Diego to Hawaii.... we get Ensenada.  Or maybe the trips to Alaska leave out of Seattle instead of Vancouver or stopping in Vancouver.   So the PVSA really does the job there, right?  SMH.

[Linsifer]

On 5/5/2021 at 3:32 PM, joepeka said:

Well, the shore excursions/independent exploration requirement is going to be a show stopper for us, unless it is rescinded before our 2022 cruises. 

Same here.  We were considering a 7 day California Coastal in late August 2021, but I’m not so sure I’m ready to cruise again with the new CDC protocol.  Our previously canceled (rebooked) 10 day cruise to Alaska isn’t until August 2022, so I’m really keeping my fingers crossed that we can get off the ship and stroll around the ports, peeking inside little shops and so forth.  Other than the Mendenhall Glacier bus ride and White Yukon Pass train excursion, we don’t plan on anymore.  For one thing, they’re costly.  But, also, we just prefer to do our own thing not too far from the ship.  

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

Great, so the lines stop on non-US ports as the work around.  So tell me again how that matter?  So instead of maybe a SanFran to San Diego to Hawaii.... we get Ensenada.  Or maybe the trips to Alaska leave out of Seattle instead of Vancouver or stopping in Vancouver.   So the PVSA really does the job there, right?  SMH.

Once again, a CC poster looks at the Passenger Vessel Services Act, as the Cruise Vessel Services Act.  It ain't.  It applies to many other vessels than cruise ships, and as I say, it employs hundreds of thousands of US citizens, as opposed to foreign crew.  Additionally, outside of the PVSA, if a foreign cruise ship were to do a totally domestic cruise, the crew would have to be US citizens, or have H2-B work visas, which require that the visa holder be paid comparable wages to US workers, and that all US labor laws would apply.  This is why the "cruise to nowhere" is no longer offered, cost, not because of the PVSA, which specifically allows cruises to nowhere.

[Linsifer]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:42 PM, Redwing55 said:

I sure hope so.  But this really sounds extreme.  Why not have some restrictions and see what if any spread occurs?  Heck, can't they also use results seen on other cruises that have or will have been ongoing?

 

Frankly, I'm no fan of the CDC as they tend to be offer extreme guidances.  When they get the chance to actually require compliance with their orders.. it's hold on for the ride.  Just a quick example... why a 6ft rule if one is vaccinated?   I don't think they even suggest that now in the US.  

 

Their track record of late leaves much to be desired.

That new woman head of the CDC is a bit too dramatic for more. 😠

[Linsifer]

On 5/6/2021 at 9:27 AM, Sea Hag said:

I like that mention of grab-and-go meals. I'd do that like a shot for breakfast and lunch, but I would hope to not need to do it for dinner.

 

On 5/6/2021 at 9:27 AM, Sea Hag said:

I like that mention of grab-and-go meals. I'd do that like a shot for breakfast and lunch, but I would hope to not need to do it for dinner.

Not me.  It’s bad enough they’re doing “boxed meals” on Amtrak.  But I’m not paying $$$ for a cruise only to have pre-packaged grab-and-go meals.  Dinner, especially.  As it is, cruise lines are already cutting back on some of the niceties we used to enjoy in previous years.  

[Redwing55]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Once again, a CC poster looks at the Passenger Vessel Services Act, as the Cruise Vessel Services Act.  It ain't.  It applies to many other vessels than cruise ships, and as I say, it employs hundreds of thousands of US citizens, as opposed to foreign crew.  Additionally, outside of the PVSA, if a foreign cruise ship were to do a totally domestic cruise, the crew would have to be US citizens, or have H2-B work visas, which require that the visa holder be paid comparable wages to US workers, and that all US labor laws would apply.  This is why the "cruise to nowhere" is no longer offered, cost, not because of the PVSA, which specifically allows cruises to nowhere.

As I posted above.. I don't care what it's called or what it allows.  I just know that the work around is fairly easy so it's not doing what it might be intended to prohibit for cruise ships.  They figured out how to get around it.  So why have it then?  They are doing pretty much what the act prohibits by stopping in another country.  So the jobs, etc have been lost for years.  I'm done on this. I meant it as an example of stupid rules.  If I'm wrong, fine, but bring it to another topic. It's not fair to others.

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, Linsifer said:

 But I’m not paying $$$ for a cruise only to have pre-packaged grab-and-go meals.

Grab and go meals were suggested as an option, if social distancing is not possible during meal service.  I suspect the lines will go with longer meal services (3 or 4 seatings) to maintain distancing.

[wowzz]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Grab and go meals were suggested as an option, if social distancing is not possible during meal service.  I suspect the lines will go with longer meal services (3 or 4 seatings) to maintain distancing.

Why is social distancing required if all pax are vaccinated ?

 

[By The Bay]

48 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Why is social distancing required if all pax are vaccinated ?

 

"A small percentage of people fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still develop COVID-19 illness. COVID-19 vaccines are effective. However, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it." CDC

[memoak]

1 hour ago, Linsifer said:

 

Not me.  It’s bad enough they’re doing “boxed meals” on Amtrak.  But I’m not paying $$$ for a cruise only to have pre-packaged grab-and-go meals.  Dinner, especially.  As it is, cruise lines are already cutting back on some of the niceties we used to enjoy in previous years.  

It is my impression that grab and go meals are an alternative to the buffet not dining rooms. Otherwise they would not be promoting the medallion dining options for reserving  dining times

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

"A small percentage of people fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still develop COVID-19 illness. COVID-19 vaccines are effective. However, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it." CDC

I don't think that the CDC is recognised anywhere in the world as being leading experts in CV19 epidemiology.  

Yes, there is always going to be a risk, but if you look at what is happening in the UK,  for example,  mass vaccinations have reduced cases of CV19 to minimal levels and deaths are in single figures.

You will never eradicate CV19,  but you can suppress it. The CDC seem to want to see CV19 totally eradicated, which is never going to happen.

[beg3yrs]

35 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

"A small percentage of people fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still develop COVID-19 illness. COVID-19 vaccines are effective. However, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it." CDC

We will NEVER be 100% safe from COVID-19, even with vaccinations, continued mask-wearing, continued social-distancing and so on. It's time to say "CLOSE ENOUGH" and get on with our lives. We now know the risks and if one is so risk averse that they insist on even more precautions, stay home, wear your mask, avoid people, don't go anywhere and see what kind of quality life is achieved.

[JudithLynne]

We have two cruises booked this year and one next year.  I hope that Princess, before final payment, will let it's passengers know in detail exactly what to expect in terms of restrictions.  A cruise of sack meals and overly restrictive access to exploring ports on our own would be a deal breaker for sure.

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, By The Bay said:

"A small percentage of people fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still develop COVID-19 illness. COVID-19 vaccines are effective. However, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it." CDC

It is propaganda designed to control the population 

[mcrcruiser]

38 minutes ago, JudithLynne said:

We have two cruises booked this year and one next year.  I hope that Princess, before final payment, will let it's passengers know in detail exactly what to expect in terms of restrictions.  A cruise of sack meals and overly restrictive access to exploring ports on our own would be a deal breaker for sure.

Agree 1000% who needs to spend  the big bucks to live under those rules . Certainly not us . Our money would transfer to really nice road trios to the National & State parks   .Easy decision 

[Sea Hag]

3 hours ago, Linsifer said:

 

Not me.  It’s bad enough they’re doing “boxed meals” on Amtrak.  But I’m not paying $$$ for a cruise only to have pre-packaged grab-and-go meals.  Dinner, especially.  As it is, cruise lines are already cutting back on some of the niceties we used to enjoy in previous years.  

As I said, I'm not onboard with that for dinner either.  I like getting waited on when we cruise, but my main focus is just getting back on the ocean again. 

[Redwing55]

3 hours ago, By The Bay said:

"A small percentage of people fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still develop COVID-19 illness. COVID-19 vaccines are effective. However, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it." CDC

At that level, comparing the risks of Covid to the flu that has been an issue in the past, flu presents a greater risk of infection and fatality.  Pre covid, other than suggesting vaccination, the CDC issued no restrictions to reduce the spread of flu on ships.  Heck remember the Zika virus?  Nothing on that one either.  I'm not saying that Covid is like the flu.  I am saying that the risk from covid isn't much more than the flu when one is vaccinated against Covid.  The CDC has been quite inconsistent with risk mitigations with viruses.

[GonzoWCS]

6 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

I don't know.. or care.. about the details. I just know that when they cruise to Hawaii, and Alaska, some stupid rule forces the lines to stop in a non US port.  And NCL has maybe one ship??? that doesn't have to do this and I think it stays in Hawaii.  So whatever it takes to stop this requirement, I'm in.  Let's leave this discussion elsewhere as it's really going off this topic.

Nice

[nocl]

7 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

As I posted above.. I don't care what it's called or what it allows.  I just know that the work around is fairly easy so it's not doing what it might be intended to prohibit for cruise ships.  They figured out how to get around it.  So why have it then?  They are doing pretty much what the act prohibits by stopping in another country.  So the jobs, etc have been lost for years.  I'm done on this. I meant it as an example of stupid rules.  If I'm wrong, fine, but bring it to another topic. It's not fair to others.

because it protects ferries, tour boats, and a whole range of other ships that carry 12 passengers and more in the US from being replaced by foreign built ships using foreign crews.

[memoak]

3 minutes ago, nocl said:

because it protects ferries, tour boats, and a whole range of other ships that carry 12 passengers and more in the US from being replaced by foreign built ships using foreign crews.

And not paying U S wages

[caribill]

9 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

I then saw him on the news today (Saturday)  He is one upset CEO.

 

My favorite part about complying with the CDC regulations that say you cannot remain maskless while eating and drinking:

 

"As we read yesterday's pronouncements, even though everyone onboard would be vaccinated, in between bites of your meal and in between sips of your beverage, you have to put on your mask, take off your mask. Nobody should order soup because your mask might get sloppy. That to me is just preposterous."

 

 

[Grego]

Once again, a thread that reveals that no one really knows what the deal is but resort to "the sky is falling" panties in a knot fear mongering.  There is a lot of time until the first ship sails out of a US port and things change fairly rapidly.

One thing is for certain........we will be cruising again.