New CDC guidelines released 5/5/21

[MamaFej]

21 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Here are their guidelines (released April 29) for vaccinated people not needing a mask outdoors - except in special circumstances.     https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

 

"Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a mask outdoors, except in certain crowded settings and venues." 

 

Here is how  they define these circumstances in the guidelines.  I cannot see how any of this really applies if everybody on board the ship is fully vaccinated.   And have been tested negative for COVID before boarding.    A bit different though if there are unvaccinated kids on board.

 

Recommendations for Outdoor Activities

Fully vaccinated people can participate in many outdoor activities without a mask at low risk to themselves or to others. While generally safe for vaccinated people to be outdoors without a mask, CDC continues to recommend requiring masking in crowded settings and venues where there is a decreased ability to maintain physical distance until widespread vaccination coverage is achieved.

Although the risk of COVID-19 spread is low in outdoor settings, especially among those who are vaccinated, the following factors could increase risk:

• A moderate, substantial, or high level of community transmission
• Settings with a higher percentage of unvaccinated people (including children) present or people at risk of severe COVID-19 disease
• The length of the visit
• Crowding or when there is a decreased ability to maintain physical distance
• Activities that involve behaviors such as singing, shouting, physical exertion or heavy breathing, inability to wear a mask, or inability to maintain physical distancing

 

 

If CDC will allow the skipping of simulated cruises as long as 95-98% of folks are vaccinated, then still requiring masks outdoors on such cruises makes no sense at all. I can be outside on land, with a few people, and still air without a mask, but not on deck in the fresh sea air, moving along at 20 nautical miles per hour? It would take an awfully coordinated effort by a great many viral units to manage to infect someone under these circumstances (I'm imagining viruses dancing like honeybees to direct others to the targeted respiratoty system - - not a likely scenario). 

 

I'm all in favor of mitigation measures that make sense. I have made and donated/gifted well over 350 polypropelene-lined fabric masks. I keep my distance whenever appropriate. I have a well-documented lousy immune system, and even I am comfortable maskless around other fully-vaccinated people. With the possible exception of elevators, I currenty do not see a reason for masks on a fully-vaccinated cruise, such as NCL proposes, or even on a 95-98% vaccinated and fully-tested one. 

 

 

[4774Papa]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:14 AM, chengkp75 said:

If you read carefully, these instructions are for the "simulated" and "restricted" cruises under the CSO, so even if a cruise line goes the vaccination route, their "restricted" cruises as defined under the CSO (the revenue cruises operating under the CSO), will still have to meet all these requirements.

I suppose that I should be happy that cruising appears to be returning in a few months.  However, not so excited about eating in our cabin or around the pool.  Sorry, but for a fully or almost fully vaccinated cruise, this is the tight a-- control we should have expected.  Social distancing, it is not apparent when we fly or in restaurants anymore.  When you fly these days there are likely many unvaccinated people onboard, as well as in restaurants.  

 

We will still cruise under this policy, but sorry, we are not eating a grab and go meal, we are dining with friends in the MDR.

[4774Papa]

56 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

I keep saying the same forever. No one honestly might say they enjoy such a vacation.

How will social distancing be enforced on a cruise ship?

[Gracie115]

The solution for us, if the CDC does not relent, will be to fly to Europe(or wherever) board a ship there, enjoy our cruise(s) and then fly home.  We won't spend $1000's to cruise under the current guidelines just to do it from a USA port.   

 

Everyone knows several ships had terrible, horrifying outcomes in March 2020, when NO ONE in the world knew what we were dealing with.  For the CDC to treat the cruise lines as if they have learned nothing in the last 14 months while the entire rest of the world has is absurd. 

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

I just cancelled my November 2021 Windstar cruise for the same reason (I received an email from them with all almost the same restrictions).

 

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

Not true. I received an email from them a few weeks ago with almost the same restrictions as those from yesterday.

I'm not sure why anyone expected anything less.  The current cruises in Asia and Europe are following these restrictions.  The new cruises for the UK are going to follow them, with vaccinated passengers.  Odds are US cruise companies doing vaccinated cruises out of Greece, the Caribbean and Bermuda will have something similar as well.  No cruise company is going to start out with no restrictions or protocols whether vaccinated or not.  There is too much at stake.

 

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 

I'm not sure why anyone expected anything less.  The current cruises in Asia and Europe are following these restrictions.  The new cruises for the UK are going to follow them, with vaccinated passengers.  Odds are US cruise companies doing vaccinated cruises out of Greece, the Caribbean and Bermuda will have something similar as well.  No cruise company is going to start out with no restrictions or protocols whether vaccinated or not.  There is too much at stake.

 

Agreed!  This is why I am waiting until May 2022 for my next cruise.  Get all of this out of the system and hopefully by then a somewhat normal cruise.  

[yorky]

8 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 

I'm not sure why anyone expected anything less.  The current cruises in Asia and Europe are following these restrictions.  The new cruises for the UK are going to follow them, with vaccinated passengers.  Odds are US cruise companies doing vaccinated cruises out of Greece, the Caribbean and Bermuda will have something similar as well.  No cruise company is going to start out with no restrictions or protocols whether vaccinated or not.  There is too much at stake.

 

I think the tipping point for many will be at what level the restrictions are when things settle down, everyone will have a level that’s acceptable, or not. We’ve got till November to pay the balance. We’re already booked with flights into Hong Kong and back from Singapore and adding flight to Bangkok and Hanoi with hotel stays would not be the worst holiday in the world if the options are more appealing.

[AbbyCruiser45]

8 hours ago, carlmm said:

Well, just imagine: In Europe cruise ships have been sailing under similar conditions for several month now and ten of thousands of happy cruisers have enjoyed the opportunity.

I'm not sure this is fully the case though-- I watched a video of someone on a recent European cruise and the pool deck was quite lively. People were in their loungers not wearing masks. According to the proposed CDC rules, that would not be acceptable. They say no mask only if you are actively in the pool. 

 

I'm not opposed to wearing masks indoors and have been happy to sail under stricter regulations. However, I've been quite disappointed by this announcement where the rules will seemingly be identical for a ship that is 95% vaccinated as compared to a ship that may theoretically only be 50% vaccinated.

[janetz]

We were so looking forward to getting onboard again

Not happening with these restrictions.

So disappointed ☺️

[nocl]

10 hours ago, Dwight1 said:

I would agree with Cramer. These rules are written as if there is no Vaccine available! The rules suggest people pre order their meals so you spend as little time in the restaurants as possible and encourage room service! Then they said any “extended” drinking and eating to have masks off is a violation. That’s in addition to wearing masks outside in the Caribbean never going on your own anywhere. Just require a vaccination to cruise and all of these rules can be scrapped. I’m already planning to switch my FL cruise in February to one starting in the Caribbean or going to a land base vacation there, US with these rules is dead in the water.

 

of course they are written for the no vaccine case, because it is up to the cruise line to determine if they are going to require everyone to be vaccinated. The rules are written for the case if the cruise lines do not require vaccination. If a cruise line plan requires vaccination for passengers and crew then some requirements will probably be waived or relaxed. It will depend upon the entire plan presented by the cruise line.

[nocl]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:56 AM, TMLAalum said:

Hopefully by the time we cruise in January some of the mandates imposed by the CDC will be lifted, especially the one forbidding independent time in the various ports of call- I would hope that the goverments of the countries affected would lobby ours to allow vaccinated passengers to spend their money and time as they wish.

I suspect that the rules on excursions will be driven by case counts in various countries. The restrictions may be around for a while depending upon case counts outside of the US as well as the strains circulating in each country.

[nocl]

7 hours ago, vermonter16 said:

So, it looks like we will probably be canceling our cruise based on all these 'new guidelines'.  It seems the more people are vaccinated, the more rules that are being put in place.  What I am reading is that unless we have a shore excursion we cannot leave the ship.  We have a port stop in Key West on Sunday and I planned on getting off the ship to attend Catholic Mass.  So, I won't be allowed to do this?  

Does your ship even qualify for a Key West port stop after they put restrictions on cruise ship size and number of passengers allowed off ship.

[nocl]

On 5/5/2021 at 7:45 PM, grandgeezer said:

What happens if a cruise can’t meet the 95/98% standard, does it get cancelled? There are a lot of people who said they won’t get the vaccine.

Most likely those individuals will not be cruising on a line that chooses the vaccination requirement .

 

According to the rule the cruise line must legally attest that they will meet the requirement. So most likely passengers will have to indicate that they are vaccinated when they book. Any exceptions would need to be pre approved. Anyone showing up that does not have adequate proof would be denied boarding.

 

Otherwise if the cruise line failed to meet the requirement senior cruise line management would  be criminally liable.

Edited May 8, 2021 by nocl

[nocl]

3 hours ago, MamaFej said:

If CDC will allow the skipping of simulated cruises as long as 95-98% of folks are vaccinated, then still requiring masks outdoors on such cruises makes no sense at all. I can be outside on land, with a few people, and still air without a mask, but not on deck in the fresh sea air, moving along at 20 nautical miles per hour? It would take an awfully coordinated effort by a great many viral units to manage to infect someone under these circumstances (I'm imagining viruses dancing like honeybees to direct others to the targeted respiratoty system - - not a likely scenario). 

 

I'm all in favor of mitigation measures that make sense. I have made and donated/gifted well over 350 polypropelene-lined fabric masks. I keep my distance whenever appropriate. I have a well-documented lousy immune system, and even I am comfortable maskless around other fully-vaccinated people. With the possible exception of elevators, I currenty do not see a reason for masks on a fully-vaccinated cruise, such as NCL proposes, or even on a 95-98% vaccinated and fully-tested one. 

 

 

because the rules are written for the cruise lines not requiring vaccination, if the cruise lines include the requirement (up to the cruise lines) in the plan they submit the some of the rules will probably get relaxed based upon the entire plan submitted.

[MamaFej]

12 minutes ago, nocl said:

because the rules are written for the cruise lines not requiring vaccination, if the cruise lines include the requirement (up to the cruise lines) in the plan they submit the some of the rules will probably get relaxed based upon the entire plan submitted.

The current mask rules are the same for both "simulated" and "restricted" (95%/98% vaccinated) cruises. 

 

Rules like these undercut the efforts to get more people vaccinated. They give the "Why bother if I still have to do X,Y,Z..."  folks plenty of ammunition.
 

Edited May 8, 2021 by MamaFej
added the word "current"

[nocl]

Just now, MamaFej said:

The mask rules are the same for both "simulated" and "restricted" (95%/98% vaccinated) cruises. 

 

Rules like these undercut the efforts to get more people vaccinated. They give the "Why bother if I still have to do X,Y,Z..."  folks plenty of ammunition.
 

They not.

 

If a cruise line meets vaccination standard they get to skip the test cruises. if they do not they must meet all the requirements and do the test cruises.

 

When it comes to the actual paying cruises we do not know what the final requirements will be if  cruise lines plan includes the vaccination requirement. We do know what they will have to do if the do not meet the vaccination level.

[Ken the cruiser]

12 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

The current mask rules are the same for both "simulated" and "restricted" (95%/98% vaccinated) cruises. 

 

Rules like these undercut the efforts to get more people vaccinated. They give the "Why bother if I still have to do X,Y,Z..."  folks plenty of ammunition.
 

But masks just make sense, regardless of simulated or restricted. Even if 95% of the passengers are vaccinated, that still leaves 5% of the passengers unvaccinated for whatever reason. Now, once the pandemic has been downgraded, maybe cruising can get more back to normal. But until then, masks just make sense IMHO.

[MamaFej]

41 minutes ago, nocl said:

They not.

 

If a cruise line meets vaccination standard they get to skip the test cruises. if they do not they must meet all the requirements and do the test cruises.

 

When it comes to the actual paying cruises we do not know what the final requirements will be if  cruise lines plan includes the vaccination requirement. We do know what they will have to do if the do not meet the vaccination level.

I'm not talking about some theorhetical requirements in the future. I apologize if that was not clear. I am talking about the subject of this thread, and what the CDC currently says is necessary for both simulated and restricted (95/98% vaccinated) voyages. Posts 21-23 might be helpful here. As is often the case, our resident chief engineer stepped in with his helpful expertise. 

 

This may help clarify as well:

 https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

From the above CDC COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order:

 

Mask Use

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.
• Masks do not have to be worn while inside one’s own cabin

Requirements

To reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• Provide passengers and crew with information on how to properly wear, take off, and clean cloth masks.
• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.
• Position posters educating passengers on how to properly wear masks in high traffic areas throughout the ship
• Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water, e.g., in RWFs or while swimming in the ocean. A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly. This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.

The FAQ link above leads to this (originally published March 21, but included currently):

Maritime

Does the mask order apply to all commercial maritime conveyance activity in the United States?

Yes, the mask order applies to all persons traveling on commercial maritime conveyances into, within, or out of the United States and to all persons at U.S. seaports. The term commercial maritime conveyance means all forms of commercial maritime vessels, including but not limited to cargo ships, fishing vessels, research vessels, self-propelled barges, and all forms of passenger carrying vessels including ferries, river cruise ships, and those chartered for fishing trips, unless otherwise exempted.

 

Again, I absolutely, fully agree with mitigation measures that are logical and make sense. I've been one of the lonely voices defending the CDC when they've been logical. What I don't agree with is the CDC announcing that it's okay for vaccinated people to stand outside together, maskless, in still air on land, but not on the deck of a cruise ship with a sea breeze or underway. 

[MamaFej]

51 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

But masks just make sense, regardless of simulated or restricted. Even if 95% of the passengers are vaccinated, that still leaves 5% of the passengers unvaccinated for whatever reason. Now, once the pandemic has been downgraded, maybe cruising can get more back to normal. But until then, masks just make sense IMHO.

Hello. I am currently in AR,  on my way to Red Bay in your lovely state. 

 

I tend to agree with Frank Del Rio, that 100% vaccination is the way to go. I miss cruising, but don't want to be on a ship with unvaccinated children and adults at this time. As I said earlier, masks might be a good idea if sharing an elevator with other passengers, but, given what we now know about transmission, I don't see them as widely necessary under most cruising conditions, and certainly not outside on deck. However, I would absolutely defend the right to do so of anyone who wanted to wear a mask out there or elsewhere.

 

I have found that still bringing my mask on daily walks comes in handy. I slap it on when near grass being mowed, dust being kicked up, or pollen falling from the trees. My allergies have been far less sever than normal this year. I can't prove whether that is correlation or causation, I'm just glad.

 

Have a lovely evening, and I hope we are all back to safely cruising sooner than later. 

 

 

[nocl]

34 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

I'm not talking about some theorhetical requirements in the future. I apologize if that was not clear. I am talking about the subject of this thread, and what the CDC currently says is necessary for both simulated and restricted (95/98% vaccinated) voyages. Posts 21-23 might be helpful here. As is often the case, our resident chief engineer stepped in with his helpful expertise. 

 

This may help clarify as well:

 https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

From the above CDC COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order:

 

Mask Use

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.
• Masks do not have to be worn while inside one’s own cabin

Requirements

To reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• Provide passengers and crew with information on how to properly wear, take off, and clean cloth masks.
• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.
• Position posters educating passengers on how to properly wear masks in high traffic areas throughout the ship
• Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water, e.g., in RWFs or while swimming in the ocean. A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly. This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.

The FAQ link above leads to this (originally published March 21, but included currently):

Maritime

Does the mask order apply to all commercial maritime conveyance activity in the United States?

Yes, the mask order applies to all persons traveling on commercial maritime conveyances into, within, or out of the United States and to all persons at U.S. seaports. The term commercial maritime conveyance means all forms of commercial maritime vessels, including but not limited to cargo ships, fishing vessels, research vessels, self-propelled barges, and all forms of passenger carrying vessels including ferries, river cruise ships, and those chartered for fishing trips, unless otherwise exempted.

 

Again, I absolutely, fully agree with mitigation measures that are logical and make sense. I've been one of the lonely voices defending the CDC when they've been logical. What I don't agree with is the CDC announcing that it's okay for vaccinated people to stand outside together, maskless, in still air on land, but not on the deck of a cruise ship with a sea breeze or underway. 

and I am saying that the rules published are written for worse case, that cruise lines have not included the vaccine requirement in their plans.

 

we know that the requirements do not apply to test cruises if the 95 and 98 vaccinated levels are reached because the entire need for test cruises is waived.

 

We know that on paying cruises the rules apply to both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals if both are on a cruise.

 

We do not know how the CDC will relax them if the 95 and 98% rule is adopted by a cruise line for revenue cruises. They have not addressed that point and most likely will not until a cruiseline presents them with a plan that includes that.

 

Clearly some requirements will remain. The one concerning excursions I expect are driven mostly by case counts inside and outside of US at various ports and will remain independent of the vaccination requirements of the cruise lones. what I expect might change with full vaccination is outdoor masking requirements. Indoor masking would probably remain for the initial cruises even with vaccination though they might relax a little when seated in a lounge or dining venue.

[baldilocks]

Just depressed.🤕

[NMTraveller]

Onerous and draconian.  Who wants to go on a cruise that has more mask restrictions than every place else in the USA.  This does not sound like a vacation.

 

The CDC does not want cruises to go period.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by NMTraveller

[WonderMan3]

Why are people with cruises booked in 2022 freaking out and threatening to cancel when these CDC guidelines are only currently in effect through October? Why not wait and see what happens as it is quite likely based on current trends that the U.S. will be in much better shape as far as vaccinated persons and infection rates/deaths go by the fall and that would lead to reduced restrictions by the CDC for beyond October?

[Host Jazzbeau]

Just now, WonderMan3 said:

Why are people with cruises booked in 2022 freaking out and threatening to cancel when these CDC guidelines are only currently in effect through October? Why not wait and see what happens as it is quite likely based on current trends that the U.S. will be in much better shape as far as vaccinated persons and infection rates/deaths go by the fall and that would lead to reduced restrictions by the CDC for beyond October?

I've been as optimistic as anyone, but we now have enough 'scientific' data on the CDC to foresee that end date of October means nothing.  They have extended and extended, and seem determined to kill the cruise industry from US ports.

[WonderMan3]

14 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I've been as optimistic as anyone, but we now have enough 'scientific' data on the CDC to foresee that end date of October means nothing.  They have extended and extended, and seem determined to kill the cruise industry from US ports.

The cruise industry has a major stain on itself right now following the Diamond and Grand Princess debacles which contributed largely to the beginning of Covid spread here in the U.S. and for the cruise lines throwing much caution to the wind by continuing to sail for a month or so even after those incidents. All eyes of the media will be on these cruises when they start to sail again. If they were to start up and have even a few cases show up onboard and God forbid have a mini-outbreak that could cause irreparable harm to the industry that they might never recover from. The CDC being overly cautious here actually serves the cruise line interests by ensuring that they can relaunch as safely as possible and then move swiftly away from the negative press from last year.