NCL may pull out of Florida over DeSantis' rules forbidding proof of vaccination

[KennyFla]

A new study from Israel: 

 

Researchers in Israel have conducted a study showing that the immunity provided against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) – the agent that causes coronavirus disease (COVID-19) – is similar following natural infection or immunization with the Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 vaccine.

The researchers from the Israel Institute of Technology, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and Sheba Medical Center say the findings raise the question of whether it is necessary to vaccinate individuals who have previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2.

The team’s analysis of individual-level data for the entire population of Israel found that both prior infection and vaccination were highly effective at preventing subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection, hospitalization due to COVID-19, and severe disease.

 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210426/Prior-SARS-CoV-2-infection-and-Pfizer-BioNTeche28099s-COVID-19-vaccine-provide-similar-immunity.aspx

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by KennyFla

[coffeebean]

8 hours ago, Heymarco said:

No, but there is still an ethical question for some to consider. Here are remaining facts for full consideration…

 

However, during laboratory testing, fetal cell cultures are still being used. Both Moderna and Pfizer have used the HEK-293 culture for testing, which is developed from human embryonic kidney cells taken from a presumably healthy child either spontaneously or purposefully aborted around 1972.

Point well taken. Research has to be done with human tissue so this seems to be a very viable way to accomplish that. The Pope has given his blessing for these vaccines to be taken by Catholic parishioners.

Edited May 14, 2021 by coffeebean

[graphicguy]

I'm Catholic, too.  And, I know exactly one couple who won't get vaccinated who are in my parish.  They're the ones everyone stays away from when they come towards you after services.  Their beliefs are scary, to say the least, and not aligned with the Vatican, but with some fringe radical group that purports to be some sort of Catholic authority (doubt they've asked the Pope about their legitimacy).   They're out on an island by themselves, mostly.  So, I can relate.

[BermudaBound2014]

33 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

  They're the ones everyone stays away from when they come towards you after services.  

 

Why would you stay away from them if you have been vaccinated? Shunning them for their choice not to accept the injection doesn't seem very Christian-like. 

[graphicguy]

Just now, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Why would you stay away from them if you have been vaccinated? Shunning them for their choice not to accept the injection doesn't seem very Christian-like. 

They're not the folks I would want to get into a conversation with.  Just like at a party, there are some people you'll go out of your way to avoid but will be cordial if engaged with them.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

A new study from Israel: 

 

Researchers in Israel have conducted a study showing that the immunity provided against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) – the agent that causes coronavirus disease (COVID-19) – is similar following natural infection or immunization with the Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2 vaccine.

The researchers from the Israel Institute of Technology, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and Sheba Medical Center say the findings raise the question of whether it is necessary to vaccinate individuals who have previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2.

The team’s analysis of individual-level data for the entire population of Israel found that both prior infection and vaccination were highly effective at preventing subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection, hospitalization due to COVID-19, and severe disease.

 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210426/Prior-SARS-CoV-2-infection-and-Pfizer-BioNTeche28099s-COVID-19-vaccine-provide-similar-immunity.aspx

 

 

 

 

Another example that our information about Covid is fluid. One study comes out that the injection provides better long term immunity and people take that as fact and run with it claiming everyone should get vaccinated. Instead, I suggest that a more rational response might be to realize that it is likely the data will change over time and that taking the injection is a complicated decision. Of course, if you are in the vulnerable group the decision is pretty simple, but pushing that agenda on everyone else could prove to be short sighted for society at large.

 

Based on what I have read, it appears that natural immunity may not only be equal to the injection, but the process of building natural immunity to Covid may actually make your body stronger to fight viruses we have yet to see. Of course, this isn't absolute either and is subject to change.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[coffeebean]

27 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I see it differently. I don't consider "staying away" from them as "shunning". I consider it social distancing for safety from Covid variants and lowering my risk of being one of the 5% (or less) of the unlucky people who do contract Covid even though fully vaccinated. I see nothing wrong with still practicing distancing while NOT wearing masks.

Quoting myself @coffeebean here. Now that I see where that conversation led, what I had to say here wasn't really the reason for the ''shunning". LMAO.

Edited May 14, 2021 by coffeebean

[Pizzasteve]

I wonder if our Floridian friends could contact their Gov to relax his mandate with respect to cruises and the quite reasonable vaccine mandate?  We would really love our Regent cruise to go off, as planned this fall.  Wasnt he supposed to be against big govt interference in reasonable businesses determining their own guidlines for safe activity?

 

If it is cancelled because of his p contest with NCL, it is likely we will shun all future travel to Florida.  Plenty of the rest of the world to explore, and going in or out of FL was never a draw to us, only a necessity of the cruise line. Would love other options.  I am sure Southwest and other Airlines would be happy to expand to fill needs to get in and out of other ports eventually too.  Not sure he has done a proper risk-reward payoff for Florida's business interests with this stand.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[deliver42]

Now, the other cruise lines should follow NCL, lead, and let DeSantis eat coal.

[cscurlock]

30 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

Now, the other cruise lines should follow NCL, lead, and let DeSantis eat coal.

I don't think they will have a choice.  At the end of the day none of them want to have to do the simulated voyages as its too expensive and the CDC guidelines states if there is an infection that spreads they will have to turn the ship around and return to port.  Which means they will also have to have port agreements to allow a scenario where a ship with a severe outbreak will be allowed to disembark and people put into quarantine. I remember there was almost a large protest of people trying to prevent people from disembarking into their city last year on one of the ships.  That could get ugly and you might need security etc. which again is expensive and on the cruise lines.  Then you have to take the ship offline to get it disinfected. So much expense that can be alleviated from just making the norm vaccinated only for now.  I think once we get to July and the CDC will revise the guidance for vaccinated ships to be mask less indoors and outdoors and you will see people ready to go on a normal vacation again.  100% vaccinations is the only way anything else just costs a ton of money. 

[Murph269]

17 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

I don't think they will have a choice.  At the end of the day none of them want to have to do the simulated voyages as its too expensive and the CDC guidelines states if there is an infection that spreads they will have to turn the ship around and return to port.  Which means they will also have to have port agreements to allow a scenario where a ship with a severe outbreak will be allowed to disembark and people put into quarantine. I remember there was almost a large protest of people trying to prevent people from disembarking into their city last year on one of the ships.  That could get ugly and you might need security etc. which again is expensive and on the cruise lines.  Then you have to take the ship offline to get it disinfected. So much expense that can be alleviated from just making the norm vaccinated only for now.  I think once we get to July and the CDC will revise the guidance for vaccinated ships to be mask less indoors and outdoors and you will see people ready to go on a normal vacation again.  100% vaccinations is the only way anything else just costs a ton of money. 

These are good points. What you mentioned, coupled with the ports of call likely wanting vaccinated passengers visiting their countries, leads me to believe that the other lines will follow the vaccination requirement route, meaning DeSantis will feel increased pressure.

[cscurlock]

3 hours ago, Murph269 said:

These are good points. What you mentioned, coupled with the ports of call likely wanting vaccinated passengers visiting their countries, leads me to believe that the other lines will follow the vaccination requirement route, meaning DeSantis will feel increased pressure.

He may feel increased pressure but like everything else that has been going on he won't change anything.  His whole premise is the issue is Federal Government overreach but in reality its State government interfering on what best for private companies business.  Something that Desantis political party affiliation has been completely against for the entire history of the party. The cruising industry has not asked him to step in, they are not party to any lawsuits.   The CDC has provided them a path forward that they agree with and he has put himself in the middle of that path.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by cscurlock

[Sopwith]

This thread seems to have wandered far off topic.  Is there any update on what is actually happening these days between NCL and Florida?  I haven't seen anything since the original news reported that prompted this thread.

[cscurlock]

23 minutes ago, Sopwith said:

This thread seems to have wandered far off topic.  Is there any update on what is actually happening these days between NCL and Florida?  I haven't seen anything since the original news reported that prompted this thread.

Not yet.  I assume the cruise lines are still talking with the CDC to get approval in on the next phase they need to pass.  Ncl's path is much easier taking the vaccinated route as there are less requirements so I suspect they will be the first to sail.

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, cscurlock said:

Not yet.  I assume the cruise lines are still talking with the CDC to get approval in on the next phase they need to pass.  Ncl's path is much easier taking the vaccinated route as there are less requirements so I suspect they will be the first to sail.

As long as NCL doesn't plan on embarking, etc. in Florida. It will have to comply with FL law. Now - I predict the parties (CDC, cruise lines, FL) will come to some compromise in the near future.

[ChutChut]

14 hours ago, cscurlock said:

He may feel increased pressure but like everything else that has been going on he won't change anything.  His whole premise is the issue is Federal Government overreach but in reality its State government interfering on what best for private companies business.  Something that Desantis political party affiliation has been completely against for the entire history of the party. The cruising industry has not asked him to step in, they are not party to any lawsuits.   The CDC has provided them a path forward that they agree with and he has put himself in the middle of that path.  

I see your point but it's not quite that - he's concerned (rightly so) with medical privacy issues and being compelled to divulge medical information in order to transact business. He believes he's on the side of individual liberty which is consistent with the party's platform.

[happy cruzer]

Would an antibody test work for all?  After all that might not violate privacy issues since you are not saying how the immunity occured...

 

Or an attestation of immunity?

[coffeebean]

23 hours ago, deliver42 said:

Now, the other cruise lines should follow NCL, lead, and let DeSantis eat coal.

Aren't the other cruise lines going to have 95% vaccinated passengers and 93% vaccinated crew? I think that is what the CDC has in their guidelines. If the cruise lines opt for this rather than performing test cruises, then they will also require proof of vaccination. Right? Again.....will they be able to do this with DeSantis' new law that bans businesses from requiring proof of vaccination?

 

DeSantis is certainly upsetting the apple cart to get cruise lines back in business again home ported in Florida.

Edited May 17, 2021 by coffeebean

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Aren't the other cruise lines going to have 95% vaccinated passengers and 93% vaccinated crew? I think that is what the CDC has in their guidelines. If the cruise lines opt for this rather than performing test cruises, then they will also require proof of vaccination. Right? Again.....will they be able to do this with DeSantis' new law that bans businesses from requiring proof of vaccination?

 

DeSantis is certainly upsetting the apple cart to get cruise lines back in business again home ported in Florida.

No, the CDC is offering the 95% pax/98% crew vaccination as an option to bypass the simulated cruises, but it is not required.  They can do simulated cruises with 0% vaccinated pax/crew, and if their remediation methods meet CDC requirements, they can cruise without any vaccination required.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

No, the CDC is offering the 95% pax/98% crew vaccination as an option to bypass the simulated cruises, but it is not required.  They can do simulated cruises with 0% vaccinated pax/crew, and if their remediation methods meet CDC requirements, they can cruise without any vaccination required.

Thanks.

[sr4mjc]

The FL lawsuit has been ordered to go to mediation. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, sr4mjc said:

The FL lawsuit has been ordered to go to mediation. 

But that lawsuit has nothing to do with the "proof of vaccination" issue.

[deliver42]

Even if they agree in mediation, DeSantis still has to agree to let the ships sail with proof of vaccination.

[WICKEDIRISH]

Interesting....Royal Caribbean has REVERSED it's "vaccination" requirement policy for cruises out of Florida and Texas.

Perhaps more will follow?

[CaptainWoody]

8 minutes ago, WICKEDIRISH said:

Interesting....Royal Caribbean has REVERSED it's "vaccination" requirement policy for cruises out of Florida and Texas.

Perhaps more will follow?

You may need to be more specific here.  Many of us have lost track......