***CDC gives RCI GO AHEAD to start test cruises in July***

[garywatson]

2 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Let's not forget that 5% rule was not only for children but for adults with medical and religious exceptions that prevent them from getting vaccinated.

How many anti vaxxers are going to claim religious belief and how are they going to make sure the unvaccinated people mask up, if needed?

 

 

Just speculation, but for Florida cruises they could give special colored wrist bands to those who show a vaccine card - if you have the correct color band you don't have to wear a mask anywhere.  If you don't have the correct color, i.e. you are an anti-vaxxer or religious objector or whatever, you are welcome onboard but you have to wear a mask everywhere in public including on the sun loungers and on CocoCay and you can't go on independent shore excursions and otherwise have to comply with the Bahamas testing rules for unvaccinated people.  This approach would get around the FL rule about not demanding proof of vaccine - it's all voluntary.  

 

[Sunshine3601]

7 minutes ago, garywatson said:

 

Just speculation, but for Florida cruises they could give special colored wrist bands to those who show a vaccine card - if you have the correct color band you don't have to wear a mask anywhere.  If you don't have the correct color, i.e. you are an anti-vaxxer or religious objector or whatever, you are welcome onboard but you have to wear a mask everywhere in public including on the sun loungers and on CocoCay and you can't go on independent shore excursions and otherwise have to comply with the Bahamas testing rules for unvaccinated people.  This approach would get around the FL rule about not demanding proof of vaccine - it's all voluntary.  

 

That's a good idea.  

[broadwaybaby123]

I'm confused...I thought RC was requiring most of the passengers and crew to be vaccinated?  Did something change?

[ArthurUSCG]

14 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

The CDC has stated that these are to be non-revenue generating cruises.  So theoretically that means no booze sales, no gambling, no shops open, and no specialty restaurants.  I wonder if that's why they're only 3 days...

They are also only "test" or "simulated" cruises, they don't have to leave the dock, and if the ship doesn't sail out into international waters, then the casino and duty free shops can't open.

[jrapps]

11 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Well if you are right then they better figure out how to do it, or plan on a Seattle test cruise. 

I have no doubt we will see Test Cruises for the Alaska cruises out of Seattle. Those aren't scheduled to start until late July (Serenade) and August (Ovation). Still plenty of time for those to get arranged. We just now saw the very first test cruise approval for the Freedom out of Miami and that ship is trying to get started July 3rd on revenue cruises. By that timing, they have another 3-4 weeks before they even need to announce a test cruise for Seattle and still have enough time to do it and sail on time.

[Biker19]

29 minutes ago, broadwaybaby123 said:

I'm confused...I thought RC was requiring most of the passengers and crew to be vaccinated?  Did something change?

That was never a settled thing for all ships/ports.

[smokeybandit]

31 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

They are also only "test" or "simulated" cruises, they don't have to leave the dock, and if the ship doesn't sail out into international waters, then the casino and duty free shops can't open.

They do have to leave the dock to test private island/shore excursion protocols.

[jrapps]

20 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I have no doubt we will see Test Cruises for the Alaska cruises out of Seattle. Those aren't scheduled to start until late July (Serenade) and August (Ovation). Still plenty of time for those to get arranged. We just now saw the very first test cruise approval for the Freedom out of Miami and that ship is trying to get started July 3rd on revenue cruises. By that timing, they have another 3-4 weeks before they even need to announce a test cruise for Seattle and still have enough time to do it and sail on time.

SOOOOOO...I am in the unusual position of saying I was wrong (I happens once or twice, right?)

 

Three is a good chance that cruises from Seattle will have to be 95%/5% cruises and thus they won't be test cruises, and that is due to the laws in Washington State. According to Washington's EO on cruise ships:

 

Capacity Restrictions In order to operate at full or partial capacity, cruise ship operators must require passengers to be fully vaccinated with following exception: cruise ship operators may allow two unvaccinated passengers or up to 5% of total passenger capacity to be unvaccinated passengers, whichever is greater. In addition, the cruise ship operator must retain at least 5% of cabins open and available to provide separate isolation and/or quarantine rooms, with individual bathrooms, for symptomatic, COVID-19 positive, or exposed crew and passengers. Subject to the limitations described in the previous paragraph, nothing in this section should be read to prohibit a cruise ship operator from providing accommodations to unvaccinated individuals, to include those individuals claiming an exemption protected by state and federal anti-discrimination laws.

[broadwaybaby123]

13 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That was never a settled thing for all ships/ports.

Thank you so much!

[smokeybandit]

14 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

The CDC has stated that these are to be non-revenue generating cruises.  So theoretically that means no booze sales, no gambling, no shops open, and no specialty restaurants.  I wonder if that's why they're only 3 days...

They're 3 days because the CDC says 3 days the minimum length they think all the protocols can be tested in.

[boatseller]

13 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

That part is mostly covered for unvaccinated guests onboard a simulated cruise:

 

A cruise ship operator must observe the following requirements relating to laboratory testing of passengers and crew who are not fully vaccinated or do not have documentation of recovery from COVID-19 ^[1] as part of a simulated voyage:

• Day of Embarkation Testing: testing must be performed by NAAT using one of the following testing instruments and processes with same day results:
  • • Previously approved Phase 1 shoreside laboratory, or
    • Previously approved Phase 1 onboard point-of-care equipment, or
    • Other testing instruments and processes approved by CDC
      • Prior to collecting specimens and conducting testing: Cruise ship operators must contact CDC at eocevent349@cdc.gov at least 7 calendar days prior to collecting specimens for approval. Include “Additional Laboratory Screening Testing for Passenger Voyages on [SHIP NAME]” in the subject line as part of your request for CDC approval.
      • CDC’s response to the cruise ship operator’s email may include additional information regarding best practices that may assist cruise ship clinicians or public health staff in collecting and transporting specimens.

   

  • Results must be available prior to boarding the cruise ship. Volunteer passengers who test positive for SARS-CoV-2 should be denied boarding, unless determined to be a persistent positive by cruise ship medical personnel.
• Day of Disembarkation Testing: testing must be performed by NAAT using one of the following testing instruments and process with same day results:
  • Previously approved Phase 1 shoreside laboratory, or
  • Previously approved Phase 1 onboard point-of-care equipment, or
  • Other testing instruments and processes approved by CDC
    • Prior to collecting specimens and conducting testing: Cruise ship operators must contact CDC at eocevent349@cdc.gov at least 7 calendar days prior to collecting specimens for approval. Include “Additional Laboratory Screening Testing for Passenger Voyages on [SHIP NAME]” in the subject line as part of your request for CDC approval.
    • CDC’s response to the cruise ship operator’s email may include additional information regarding best practices that may assist cruise ship clinicians or public health staff in collecting and transporting specimens.
  • Results must be available before the passenger leaves the cruise ship, seaport, or offsite testing location, but specimen collection and testing can occur onboard or shoreside.
• Post Disembarkation Testing Options: To validate the efficacy of the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risk of COVID-19 onboard the cruise ship, post disembarkation testing for volunteer passengers is required for simulated voyages.
  • As a condition of receiving a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate, cruise ship operators must have at least 75% of all passengers who are not fully vaccinated provide their post disembarkation specimen to the selected laboratory for COVID-19 testing 3 to 5 days after completion of the simulated voyage. Passengers who are fully vaccinated or who have documentation of recovery from COVID-19 ^[1] are exempt from post disembarkation testing. CDC may lower the 75% post-disembarkation testing requirement for future simulated voyages based on lessons learned from previous simulated voyages and other factors.
  • The cruise ship operator must in turn report aggregate results to CDC in the after-action report.
  • Cruise ship operators have the option of supplying all volunteer passengers with a self-collected nasal mid-turbinate nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT) specimen collection kit to be shipped directly to a laboratory.
    • All volunteer passengers must:
      • Receive education on self-collection technique.
      • Be instructed to collect the specimen 3 to 5 days after completion of the simulated voyage for testing.
      • Be instructed to store and ship the specimen directly to the laboratory within the specifications of the manufacturer.
    • The shoreside laboratory must use a NAAT that has been authorized for emergency use by FDA and that has been evaluated on the FDA reference panel external iconfor SARS-CoV-2 with a limit of detection (LOD) value ≤18,000 NDU/ml. CDC must approve the cruise ship operator’s selection of a CLIA-certified laboratory. All additional requirements as listed for Shoreside COVID-19 Laboratory Screening Testing of All Crew, above, must also be followed.
  • Cruise ship operators can alternatively direct volunteer passengers to obtain a nasopharyngeal (NP) specimen at a shoreside laboratory for SARS-COV-2 testing 3 to 5 days after completion of the simulated voyage for testing.
    • The shoreside laboratory must use a NAAT that has been authorized for emergency use by FDA and that has been evaluated on the FDA reference panel for SARS-CoV-2 with a limit of detection (LOD) value ≤18,000 NDU/ml. CDC must approve the cruise ship operator’s selection of a CLIA-certified laboratory. All additional requirements as listed for Shoreside COVID-19 Laboratory Screening Testing of All Crew, above, must also be followed.
• Cruise ship operators must conduct laboratory testing of any passengers or crew who report illness consistent with COVID-19 during the simulated voyage (as well as any identified close contacts) using point-of-care equipment and parameters approved by CDC as part of Phase 1 of the CSO. Refer to the Technical Instructions for Mitigation of COVID-19 Among Cruise Ship Crew for requirements of onboard COVID-19 testing for symptomatic travelers and close contacts.
• Cruise ship operators must continue to conduct routine screening testing of crew according to the corresponding color-coding interval. Cruise ship operators at their discretion may stagger whole ship crew testing during the corresponding color-coding interval (e.g., weekly, every two weeks, every 28 days). For example, the cruise ship operator may choose to test the same percentage of crew on each day of the week if required to test weekly. To ensure consistency, screening testing must be completed within 4 consecutive days of each color-coding interval and the testing schedule for each crew member should remain the same across all color-coding intervals.

Nailed it.  Of couse.

 

This is a scheme designed to 'succeed' regardless of the outcome.  It's easier to cheat than Chicago elections. :)

 

There is no requirement for unvax'd pax.  It will be very, very easy for RCI to tip the balance toward an all vax'd or recovered compliment.  Requiring the Bahamas Travel Health Visa favors vax'd travellers and heavily promoting the above requirements puts up another barrier to unvax'd.

 

Also, they can simply invite people who have already sailed or are booked on Adventure which requires vax'd pax.  I'm up for an almost back-to-back!

 

Either way, it will be presented as:

A) Vax'd and you're all good to go.  Happy Cruising!

B) No vax proof?  No problem, here's the 27 things you need to do every day and we'll need to take 6 samples right now.  Please sign these 84 disclosures.  See you tomorrow morning to repeat this whole process!

 

And no, this does not appear to violate Florida law as no entry or services will be denied.

 

10% capacity is, what ~500?  (Maybe less due to the 'restricted voyage' language).  They can just pull that from already vax'd crew.  500 'guests' on Freedom of the Seas will be a literal ghost town.  

 

Self administered mail in tests?  Sure, what could possibly go wrong.

 

Meaning, it's easy to practically guarantee nothing will happen.  They're giving RCI a take-home test with the answer key in the library and no proctor.  If RCI fails, they're even dumber than the CDC.

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, garywatson said:

 

Just speculation, but for Florida cruises they could give special colored wrist bands to those who show a vaccine card - if you have the correct color band you don't have to wear a mask anywhere.  If you don't have the correct color, i.e. you are an anti-vaxxer or religious objector or whatever, you are welcome onboard but you have to wear a mask everywhere in public including on the sun loungers and on CocoCay and you can't go on independent shore excursions and otherwise have to comply with the Bahamas testing rules for unvaccinated people.  This approach would get around the FL rule about not demanding proof of vaccine - it's all voluntary.  

 

That is really impractical under the circumstances. How can crew members be expected to police everyone’s arm band color in a variety of settings? It’s easier to manage unvaccinated kids of a certain age, but even that may not be practical.   Not enough extra crew to manage that process, not to mention the high probability of non-compliance by the unvaccinated. Just based on the amount of unmasking in my area of Florida compared with the rate of fully vaccinated, the honor system is not working. Won’t work on a cruise ship either. 

[boatseller]

2 hours ago, garywatson said:

 

Just speculation, but for Florida cruises they could give special colored wrist bands to those who show a vaccine card - if you have the correct color band you don't have to wear a mask anywhere.  If you don't have the correct color, i.e. you are an anti-vaxxer or religious objector or whatever, you are welcome onboard but you have to wear a mask everywhere in public including on the sun loungers and on CocoCay and you can't go on independent shore excursions and otherwise have to comply with the Bahamas testing rules for unvaccinated people.  This approach would get around the FL rule about not demanding proof of vaccine - it's all voluntary.  

 

Not necessary.  There is no face covering requirement other than traveling out of or in to the United States.  Meaning 2-3 hours after departure and the night before arrival...when everyone is sleeping anyway.  And the honor system is working fine in the theme parks, no reason to treat the ship any different.

 

And no, I will not wear a wrist band.  It will probably clash with my outfit.

[smokeybandit]

14 minutes ago, boatseller said:

There is no face covering requirement other than traveling out of or in to the United States. 

Except if you're on a cruise ship and want to have a nice sit down dinner

[boatseller]

16 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Except if you're on a cruise ship and want to have a nice sit down dinner

Sorry, I don't follow.  There have never been face covering requirements while eating, even on shore.

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Sorry, I don't follow.  There have never been face covering requirements while eating, even on shore.

Yes, some states required you to put your mask on in between bites. And the CSO has a clause for mask usage during extended meals.

[boatseller]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Yes, some states required you to put your mask on in between bites. And the CSO has a clause for mask usage during extended meals.

Oh, no.  I think that was just one of the more comically absurd suggestions from, of course, Gavin Newsom.  Along the lines of no screeming on rollercoasters.

 

That order only applies when traveling in, out, or within the United States.  If them meant to cover then entire voyage, the language would have to be more specific.  Well, the CDC could be as linguistically illiterate as they are scientifically illiterate.  Who knows at this point.

[molly361]

Vicki Freed just said volunteers will have to be fully vaccinated

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Vicki Freed just said volunteers will have to be fully vaccinated

 

Great -- I'm vaxed, packed, t-shirt on -- ready to go. 

 

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

They're 3 days because the CDC says 3 days the minimum length they think all the protocols can be tested in.

That is the key. The CDC thinks, but doesn't know, about so many things. They pull numbers and mandates out of their butts and hope it either makes sense or that no one will notice that it doesn't.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

That is the key. The CDC thinks, but doesn't know, about so many things. They pull numbers and mandates out of their butts and hope it either makes sense or that no one will notice that it doesn't.

That may well be true, but no cruise line is going to do more than the bare minimum to satisfy the stupid terms of the test cruises.

[livingonthebeach]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

They're 3 days because the CDC says 3 days the minimum length they think all the protocols can be tested in.

 

Actually, they say 2-7 days in their guidelines but since those are changing by the day, uhm hour, uhm minute -- who knows...

 

• "Simulated voyages must be between 2-7 days in length with a least one overnight stay[2] to test the efficacy of the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risk of COVID-19 onboard the cruise ship, including through embarkation, disembarkation, and post-disembarkation testing."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Actually, they say 2-7 days in their guidelines but since those are changing by the day, uhm hour, uhm minute -- who knows...

 

• "Simulated voyages must be between 2-7 days in length with a least one overnight stay[2] to test the efficacy of the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risk of COVID-19 onboard the cruise ship, including through embarkation, disembarkation, and post-disembarkation testing."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

You didn't click on the [2] footnote 

"To fully test all procedures during a simulated voyage, CDC recommends a minimum voyage length of 3 days with 2 overnight stays."

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

You didn't click on the [2] footnote 

"To fully test all procedures during a simulated voyage, CDC recommends a minimum voyage length of 3 days with 2 overnight stays."

 

LOL -- is there a footnote to the footnote as well?  

[Jeremiah1212]

21 minutes ago, boatseller said:

That order only applies when traveling in, out, or within the United States.  If them meant to cover then entire voyage, the language would have to be more specific.  Well, the CDC could be as linguistically illiterate as they are scientifically illiterate.  Who knows at this point.

 

There is free pratique language in the order that allows the CDC guidelines to apply to the duration of a cruise into or out of the US.