2 PAX ON CELEBRITY MILLENIUM TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID

[ChutChut]

10 hours ago, mtnlvr53 said:

Although the MLB is/was investigating this breakthrough case, one thing that they did mention was that the players had all been vaccinated with the J&J one shot vaccine to expedite the players ability to loosen Covid restrictions. Not to bad mouth J & J but it does have a lesser ability to stop the virus from causing positive tests. The people affected may be asymptomatic, as these passengers were, or significantly less serious symptoms. Sooooo... the point of my rambling is that I wonder if the 2 people on board had J & J vaccine or another vaccine with lower efficacy and just got a mild case and that the whole idea of vaccine not working is a non-issue. In fact, it did work, just not as well as some vaccines at blocking the virus, but in keeping the infection minor.

PS If they were from Holland as someone indicted, like the Yankees they likely had the J &J vaccine from what I have read. 

JJ doesn't have a lower efficacy if you compare apples to apples. Its trials/tests were conducted during the full pandemic when variants emerged. Morderna/Pfizer tests were conducted much earlier without the variants and on a less diverse population. Stop with the useless speculation about the vaccines and stop spreading misinformation.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

5 hours ago, KirkNC said:

It doesn’t make me feel better about sailing with unvaccinated because if there are enough onboard I don’t think it would just be quarantine.  Given the higher likelihood of spread with unvaccinated I believe you have a higher likelihood of early cruise termination.  Now it does make me feel better about cruising as long as everyone is vaccinated.

I agree. I was thinking about a small number of unvaccinated, not an entire ship of fools. Once a certain percentage of passengers are sick and contagious, it would have the same effect as a bad Norwalk outbreak and your cruise is over.

[Laminator]

1 hour ago, Boatdrill said:

Criminally liable for what ? 

The Vax Card is govt issued. If they used a counterfeit vax card that would be against the law just like using a fake DL or Passport. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Laminator

[Boatdrill]

6 hours ago, Laminator said:

The Vax Card is govt issued. If they used a counterfeit vax card that would be against the law just like using a fake DL or Passport. 

 The two affected passengers are allegedly Dutch nationals, and we don't know if their vax cards were  issued in the USA or the Netherlands.  However it would be interesting from jurisdiction and prosecutorial standpoints if the cards were from the U.S., since the "crime" happened in St. Maarten, a country with its own capital, and affiliated with Holland. And if the ship's registry is still Malta, that's  even more fun to sort out. 

[mtnlvr53]

11 hours ago, ontheweb said:

To be absolutely correct, only ONE Yankee player, not players, tested positive. And he had mutltiple negative tests that allowed him to come back to the field after less than the 10 days he was originally supposed to be suspended. In addition to the ONE player, two coaches, and I'm not sure whether it was five or six of the travelling staff also had breakthrough case. But again, not multiple players, just ONE.

 

I do agree with the parts of your post that mention that they had the less efficacious approved vaccine, Johnson & Johnson.

delete

Edited June 12, 2021 by mtnlvr53

[Laminator]

1 hour ago, Boatdrill said:

 The two affected passengers are allegedly Dutch nationals, and we don't know if their vax cards were  issued in the USA or the Netherlands.  However it would be interesting from jurisdiction and prosecutorial standpoints if the cards were from the U.S., since the "crime" happened in St. Maarten, a country with its own capital, and affiliated with Holland. And if the ship's registry is still Malta, that's  even more fun to sort out. 

.I never said the govt issued vax cards were US issued. The Netherlands government also issues vaccination cards, Their laws for misuse may be stricter than those of the US.

[Boatdrill]

22 minutes ago, Laminator said:

.I never said the govt issued vax cards were US issued. The Netherlands government also issues vaccination cards, Their laws for misuse may be stricter than those of the US.

I agree with you. And I know you didn't say the vax cards were US issued. 

[Daniel A]

21 hours ago, Laminator said:

The Vax Card is govt issued. If they used a counterfeit vax card that would be against the law just like using a fake DL or Passport. 

It may be semantics, but in the US, the CDC card is not really 'Government Issued.'  The card is a government printed blank form which gets completed and issued by pharmacies, doctors offices as well as hospitals.  If the cruise line is willing to accept these CDC cards as proof then they also bear some culpability for allowing an unvaccinated passenger onboard.  There may be civil liability but it may be a stretch calling it a crime and finding a proper jurisdiction.

 

In New York, it may be a criminal charge of Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument, but the deception would need to take place in New York.  Wherever the deception would have taken place with displaying the forged document, that locality would need to have a law in place similar to New York's law and wording of the law.

 

How does a negative PCR test get verified as a legitimate document?

Edited June 13, 2021 by Daniel A

[Laminator]

22 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It may be semantics, but in the US, the CDC card is not really 'Government Issued.'  The card is a government printed blank form which gets completed and issued by pharmacies, doctors offices as well as hospitals.  If the cruise line is willing to accept these CDC cards as proof then they also bear some culpability for allowing an unvaccinated passenger onboard.  There may be civil liability but it may be a stretch calling it a crime and finding a proper jurisdiction.

 

In New York, it may be a criminal charge of Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument, but the deception would need to take place in New York.  Wherever the deception would have taken place with displaying the forged document, that locality would need to have a law in place similar to New York's law and wording of the law.

 

How does a negative PCR test get verified as a legitimate document?

It is a violation of Federal Law. That CDC seal on the card is an official govt. sel which makes it an official govt. document. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Laminator

[idiebabe]

16 minutes ago, Laminator said:

It is a violation of Federal Law. That CDC seal on the card is an official govt. sel which makes it an official govt. document. 

Correct!  This was posted by SC Emergency Management this past week!

 

REMINDER: It is illegal to make or buy fake vaccination cards.

Misrepresenting yourself as vaccinated puts yourself and others around you at risk of contracting COVID-19 and the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal is a federal crime.

 

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | If You Make or Buy a Fake COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card, You Endanger Yourself and Those Around You, and You Are Breaking the Law

 

 

[rucrazy]

Their web address is even .gov

https://www.cdc.gov/

How is that not a federal entity? 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Laminator said:

It is a violation of Federal Law. That CDC seal on the card is an official govt. sel which makes it an official govt. document. 

I didn't imply it was legal to posses or use a counterfeit card for deceptive purposes.  What I said was that it is not a "Government issued" card like a driver license or passport.  It is more along the lines of possessing and using a counterfeit prescription pad.  It isn't issued by the government, it is issued by the healthcare provider but using the counterfeit prescription is a serious crime nonetheless.

 

The cards were never intended to serve as proof of vaccination, rather, they were intended to remind the vaccine recipient of which vaccine was received on what date and when to get the next dose.  In case boosters are necessary in the future, the health agency will know which vaccine you got.  From the same FBI advisory:

"Vaccination record cards are intended to provide recipients of the COVID-19 vaccine with information about the type of vaccine they received, and when they may be able to receive a second dose of the vaccine. "

 

The federal government never intended the cards to serve as proof of vaccination although they are filling a void in the absence of credible "vaccine passports."

 

Whatever the case, it is seriously wrong to pass oneself off as being vaccinated when in fact they aren't.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Daniel A

[esimon]

and it's seriously wrong to assume a vaccine will protect you -    

[cowmilker]

14 minutes ago, esimon said:

and it's seriously wrong to assume a vaccine will protect you -    

Why?  The testing and the stats prove that my vax will, in fact, almost certainly protect me.  Nothing is 100% but this is really close.

[Roz]

1 hour ago, esimon said:

and it's seriously wrong to assume a vaccine will protect you -    

 

I'm 68 and so far I've been protected from smallpox, polio, and shingles due to vaccines.

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

The cards were never intended to serve as proof of vaccination, rather, they were intended to remind the vaccine recipient of which vaccine was received on what date and when to get the next dose.  In case boosters are necessary in the future, the health agency will know which vaccine you got.  From the same FBI advisory:

"Vaccination record cards are intended to provide recipients of the COVID-19 vaccine with information about the type of vaccine they received, and when they may be able to receive a second dose of the vaccine. "

 

You left out the rest of the Statement:

 

If you did not receive the vaccine, do not buy fake vaccine cards, do not make your own vaccine cards, and do not fill-in blank vaccination record cards with false information. By misrepresenting yourself as vaccinated when entering schools, mass transit, workplaces, gyms, or places of worship, you put yourself and others around you at risk of contracting COVID-19. Additionally, the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.

[mcrcruiser]

3 hours ago, esimon said:

and it's seriously wrong to assume a vaccine will protect you -    

The US covid vaccines will protect a person from being seriously ill to dying   .The  main reason for the push to get as many people vaccinated ASAP was to reach herd immunity ASAP & thus decrease  the variants that naturally come from any virus   .This is & was the US mandate with Warp Speed 

[mcrcruiser]

California opens completely Tuesday June 15m2021 .  It is going to be interesting  how many unvaccinated people will be wearing masks . The rule here is vaccinated no masks unless a establishment ,like a medical facility requires it . It is going to be very very interesting ;as many no vax will not wear masks ,how will that have a impact is any ones guess 

[mcrcruiser]

People who forge a vaccine card   imo are plain stupid & dangerous to others 

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, idiebabe said:

You left out the rest of the Statement:

 

If you did not receive the vaccine, do not buy fake vaccine cards, do not make your own vaccine cards, and do not fill-in blank vaccination record cards with false information. By misrepresenting yourself as vaccinated when entering schools, mass transit, workplaces, gyms, or places of worship, you put yourself and others around you at risk of contracting COVID-19. Additionally, the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.

Yes, I did read that as well, but I didn't think it germain to the concept that the CDC card was never intended to serve as a government issued ID like a driver license or passport.  I'm not implying anything else.

 

Legitimate CDC card - good.  Forged CDC card - bad. 🙂  

[rucrazy]

24 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

It is going to be interesting  how many unvaccinated people will be wearing masks .

We still wear masks inside of establishments even though we have had both shots.. for now  that is..

We just don't trust others to be honest with their status.. this as with everything is a personal choice

[CruiserBruce]

35 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

 The rule here is vaccinated no masks unless a establishment ,like a medical facility requires it . 

To be clear, a private business can require masks. But its THE STATE that is requiring masks in schools, hospitals and other medical facilities, prisons and in public transit like taxis buses airports etc. Starting June 15.

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

To be clear, a private business can require masks. But its THE STATE that is requiring masks in schools, hospitals and other medical facilities, prisons and in public transit like taxis buses airports etc. Starting June 15.

Yes that is correct . We just heard that the Indian  strain is in the US  ,don't know more at this time .

[kazu]

I honestly think the talk of forged vaccine cards is overrated and will be caught.

 

For example, if you wish to enter Spain, you have to fill out an online form with the details to get a QR code.  Pretty sure they will be verifying.

With Holland America, you have to provide the details IN ADVANCE.  I’m pretty sure they too will be doing some checking.

Batches are not hard to confirm.  Neither is the clinic/ pharmacy where it was performed nor checking with your Medicare number (our number here) or whatever Health number each person uses.

I suspect that checks will be very vigilant - at least at the beginning until covid risk is much abated.  I could be wrong of course - I have been before 😉 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Yes, I did read that as well, but I didn't think it germain to the concept that the CDC card was never intended to serve as a government issued ID like a driver license or passport.  I'm not implying anything else.

 

Legitimate CDC card - good.  Forged CDC card - bad. 🙂  

Forged CDC card not just bad but a criminal offense under US code title 18 section 1017