How cruise lines are coping with Vaccination Ban

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

Probably a lot more on land. Unrealistic to expect cruises to have less cases than society.  Media not helping by headlines that imply cases = failure .

 

Exactly! I do think that it is very unrealistic to expect cruises to have less cases than society. We can't keep covid off ships (I've been preaching this on CC for months). I think covid rates are still quite high in the general public, but those getting it are largely not getting sick and are not being tested so it's not front page news. Current covid rates among those asymptomatic are likely helping us reach herd immunity. All positive.

 

However; I was hoping that the initial restart in North America would have fewer cases reported to give media less chance to color the cruise industry tainted. I am thankful we haven't seen the media bite hard into either this story or the Millennium, so that is another positive. 

[sanger727]

There is a thread on celebrity that upcoming cruisers are getting a phone call from Celebrity asking if 1. They are vaccinated and 2. They will show a vaccination card. It then gets marked in their file if they say yes. So presumably, if you get a call and say yes, I will show it voluntarily, they will ask when you check in and you'll get onboard. If you say "no, I won't show it" or don't answer, they will put you in the 5% pool. Clever way of letting them ask for proof of vaccination without requiring it....

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

Yup. But I think it should also be looked at as - 4 cruises 7,000 passengers (?) and 4,000 crew is 11k passengers and 2 cases of Covid. 

 

Probably a lot more on land. Unrealistic to expect cruises to have less cases than society.  Media not helping by headlines that imply cases = failure .

This post is spot on! Thank you!

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

There is a thread on celebrity that upcoming cruisers are getting a phone call from Celebrity asking if 1. They are vaccinated and 2. They will show a vaccination card. It then gets marked in their file if they say yes. So presumably, if you get a call and say yes, I will show it voluntarily, they will ask when you check in and you'll get onboard. If you say "no, I won't show it" or don't answer, they will put you in the 5% pool. Clever way of letting them ask for proof of vaccination without requiring it....

All along I've been saying there was a way cruise lines could ask about vaccination without violating the Florida law prohibiting it. This appears to do just that.

And I'm hoping the weather improves for our dear friend @BermudaBound2014! 🌞

[Karaboudjan]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

All along I've been saying there was a way cruise lines could ask about vaccination without violating the Florida law prohibiting it. This appears to do just that.

And I'm hoping the weather improves for our dear friend @BermudaBound2014! 🌞

 

The big question is what will happen if someone is actually turned away because the 5% bucket is full.  Giving people more restrictions seems to at least meet the letter of the law, but turning someone away looks like a violation.  And with a 100% policy NCL has no 5% bucket to work with.

[DCGuy64]

19 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

The big question is what will happen if someone is actually turned away because the 5% bucket is full.  Giving people more restrictions seems to at least meet the letter of the law, but turning someone away looks like a violation.  And with a 100% policy NCL has no 5% bucket to work with.

Excellent points!

[MorganClark]

20 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Not a loop hole.  Just a business strategy.  Sail out of places other than FLA until this mess is sorted out.  Yes, I know, they still have a handful of FLA cruises that haven't (yet) been cancelled.  They fired a shot across the bow with this week's FLA cancellations.  Likely just sitting back now to see if FLA changes course.  (see what I did there with the ship references?? 😁)

 

I like ship references.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

Yup. But I think it should also be looked at as - 4 cruises 7,000 passengers (?) and 4,000 crew is 11k passengers and 2 cases of Covid. Probably a lot more on land. Unrealistic to expect cruises to have less cases than society.  Media not helping by headlines that imply cases = failure .

I don't know how many passengers have been on the Celebrity cruises. The RCCL cruises out of Nassau last week had just over 1000 passengers and this week just under 1000 passengers (about 25% max capacity). 

 

RCCL ran about 94% vaccinated last week and 92% vaccinated this week. 

 

The bigger picture is that over the past month, there have been around 17 cases of COVID on cruise ships (MSC, Celebrity, RCCL), the biggest outbreak was on the Odyssey of the Seas causing the cancellation of 4 weeks of cruises (big black eye for RCCL). 

[JamieLogical]

11 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

I don't know how many passengers have been on the Celebrity cruises. The RCCL cruises out of Nassau last week had just over 1000 passengers and this week just under 1000 passengers (about 25% max capacity). 

 

RCCL ran about 94% vaccinated last week and 92% vaccinated this week. 

 

The bigger picture is that over the past month, there have been around 17 cases of COVID on cruise ships (MSC, Celebrity, RCCL), the biggest outbreak was on the Odyssey of the Seas causing the cancellation of 4 weeks of cruises (big black eye for RCCL). 

 

To be fair, the crew members who tested positive on the Odyssey of the Seas were yet to be fully vaccinated.

[BirdTravels]

1 minute ago, JamieLogical said:

 

To be fair, the crew members who tested positive on the Odyssey of the Seas were yet to be fully vaccinated.

True. But RCCL's protocols were to PCR test and quarantine crew prior to travel to ship. PCR test and quarantine crew just before boarding the ship. And then have new crew members quarantine for 14 days once they are onboard the ship. The folks that have joined the ship in the states are now faced with 3-4 weeks in quarantine since the ship is on lock down. 

 

The crew that tested positive were about 1 1/2 weeks post-vaccination. Max immunity is about 2 weeks after vaccination. So, it is likely that they caught COVID after being vaccinated, but before being "fully cooked". 

[RocketMan275]

21 hours ago, Diane67B said:

What happens if there is more than 5%

A lawsuit.  Imagine a cruise line telling a passenger that if they don't produce proof of vaccination that the passenger will be denied access to a cruise that passenger had already paid for, plus incurred additional expenses for flights, hotel rooms, etc.  I would expect the state of Florida to claim that was in violation of their law and impose the penalties for all denied boarding.

[RumRunner2021]

16 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

A lawsuit.  Imagine a cruise line telling a passenger that if they don't produce proof of vaccination that the passenger will be denied access to a cruise that passenger had already paid for, plus incurred additional expenses for flights, hotel rooms, etc.  I would expect the state of Florida to claim that was in violation of their law and impose the penalties for all denied boarding.

It will likely be a big mess.  I don't think it is any coincidence that NCL has cancelled a lot of cruises out of Florida.   Remember when the biggest concern at the dock was if NCL was going to find the booze hidden in your suitcase?  Like the song goes, "those were the days....."

[Sand and Seas]

2 hours ago, RumRunner2021 said:

It will likely be a big mess.  I don't think it is any coincidence that NCL has cancelled a lot of cruises out of Florida.   Remember when the biggest concern at the dock was if NCL was going to find the booze hidden in your suitcase?  Like the song goes, "those were the days....."

They cancelled our October Joy out of Miami, but why can you (currently) book Gem out of Miami in August?   

 

And yeah, I'm ready to get back to trying to smuggle Diet Coke in my suitcase....

[kitty-sail]

On 6/23/2021 at 8:35 AM, JamieLogical said:

 

We'll find out this weekend when the Edge sets sail!

Royal announced today that they will require anyone not vaccinated to submit to a covid test for which they will be billed $150. Royal also said that non-vaccinated will be separated from vaccinated, ie. theater, dining. I assume other lines will follow suit.

 

 

[kitty-sail]

On 6/24/2021 at 1:56 PM, Old & Retired said:

Exactly.  Neither will NCL.  The hysteria is about over.

The rules will be lose until someone get covid onboard

[RumRunner2021]

18 minutes ago, kitty-sail said:

The rules will be lose until someone get covid onboard

I was of the impression that with NCL's 100% vaccination requirement, there are no "rules" once on board.  Was I mistaken?

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

All along I've been saying there was a way cruise lines could ask about vaccination without violating the Florida law prohibiting it. This appears to do just that.

 

My concern is what will happen after July 18 when the CSO is no longer valid in Florida? How will the cruise lines ask for voluntary vaccination proof if there is no longer the CDC requirement for 95% vaccinated passengers? The cruise lines have been using that CSO to claim they are complying with the CDC for 95% vaccinated passengers so they asked all their passengers to volunteer their proof of vaccination. There will be no way for the cruise lines to "skirt" the Florida law without that CSO.

[ChiefMateJRK]

6 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

My concern is what will happen after July 18 when the CSO is no longer valid in Florida? How will the cruise lines ask for voluntary vaccination proof if there is no longer the CDC requirement for 95% vaccinated passengers? The cruise lines have been using that CSO to claim they are complying with the CDC for 95% vaccinated passengers so they asked all their passengers to volunteer their proof of vaccination. There will be no way for the cruise lines to "skirt" the Florida law without that CSO.

I'm guessing that a lot of lawyers on both sides are putting in a lot of OT on this.

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

The big question is what will happen if someone is actually turned away because the 5% bucket is full.  Giving people more restrictions seems to at least meet the letter of the law, but turning someone away looks like a violation.  And with a 100% policy NCL has no 5% bucket to work with.

I'm wondering what strategy NCL's lawyers have come up with to legally sail out of Florida with 100% vaxxed passengers. OR......are they going to completely disregard the Florida law and sail as they safely see fit?

[Karaboudjan]

9 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

My concern is what will happen after July 18 when the CSO is no longer valid in Florida? How will the cruise lines ask for voluntary vaccination proof if there is no longer the CDC requirement for 95% vaccinated passengers? The cruise lines have been using that CSO to claim they are complying with the CDC for 95% vaccinated passengers so they asked all their passengers to volunteer their proof of vaccination. There will be no way for the cruise lines to "skirt" the Florida law without that CSO.

 

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

I'm wondering what strategy NCL's lawyers have come up with to legally sail out of Florida with 100% vaxxed passengers. OR......are they going to completely disregard the Florida law and sail as they safely see fit?

Aren't we all!

 

As for what happens if the CSO goes away, I don't see any reason why the cruise lines can't keep using the same methods to hit any self-imposed vaccination target they want.  Yes, they could make it lower than 95% or 100%, but I suspect they will play it pretty safe at least at the beginning.  

[coffeebean]

47 minutes ago, RumRunner2021 said:

I was of the impression that with NCL's 100% vaccination requirement, there are no "rules" once on board.  Was I mistaken?

That is what I understand also. No protocols to deal with when 100% of passengers are vaccinated. But......how is NCL going to pull this off in Florida? It is anyone's guess if these 100% vaxxed cruises will actually happen.

[coffeebean]

14 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I'm guessing that a lot of lawyers on both sides are putting in a lot of OT on this.

I would like to see every single cruise line file a law suit against the State of Florida and challenge that ban of requiring proof of vaccine. I would love to see that law shot down because it violates the cruise lines the ability to conduct their business in a way which keeps their patrons healthy and safe, especially during a pandemic. These cruise lines should have the ability to conduct their businesses as they see fit and not have state government intervention. That just seems all kinds of wrong, especially when it concerns public health.

 

All my opinion, of course.

 

 

 

 

[RumRunner2021]

7 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

That is what I understand also. No protocols to deal with when 100% of passengers are vaccinated. But......how is NCL going to pull this off in Florida? It is anyone's guess if these 100% vaxxed cruises will actually happen.

As of right now, NCL is only showing three sailings from FL in August (all on the Gem, first one on August 15).  I'm guessing that they're hoping either this will get sorted out by then or they may just cancel.  Just one person's guess....

[coffeebean]

19 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Aren't we all!

 

As for what happens if the CSO goes away, I don't see any reason why the cruise lines can't keep using the same methods to hit any self-imposed vaccination target they want.  Yes, they could make it lower than 95% or 100%, but I suspect they will play it pretty safe at least at the beginning.  

But.....there is the Florida law they have to contend with. I hope you are right.

[SeaHunt]

1 hour ago, kitty-sail said:

Royal also said that non-vaccinated will be separated from vaccinated, ie. theater, dining. I assume other lines will follow suit.

 

 

 

Plus now on Adventure unvaccinated guests must take ship excursions instead of on your own tours, including parents traveling with unvaccinated children:

 

Dear Guest,

We’ve been preparing for your sailing and now that we have had a couple of Adventure of the Seas sailings, we have an updated requirement to share with you.

 

In abundance of caution, when visiting ports other than Perfect Day at CocoCay, parties that include unvaccinated guests, including parents traveling with unvaccinated children, are required to participate in shore excursions offered by local tour operators approved by Royal Caribbean. These tours meet our health and safety requirements for unvaccinated guests. Entirely vaccinated traveling parties may visit the port freely. All guests are subject to restrictions and requirements as defined by local authorities in the ports we visit. Additional details will be provided onboard.

 

We are sorry for the last-minute change for unvaccinated guests and those traveling with them. The decision was made to protect you and the communities we visit. To help offset this change, on this sailing, shore excursions will be offered at a discounted rate for guests under 16. Once onboard, please visit the shore excursions desk on Deck 5 and our amazing team will help find the perfect excursion that will give you that adventure you’ve been looking for or the laidback vacation you’ve been dreaming about for over a year.

If you have questions or concerns, please contact us at 954-628-9290 or 1-800-256-6649. We will gladly answer your questions and work with you to reschedule or refund your cruise.

Click here if you would like to revisit all health requirements for your sailing.

We look forward to having you onboard for our Royal Comeback!