Carnival Spirit Class Ships Are Non Compliant to ADA Law

[mcrcruiser]

We need a fully compliant state room & we had booked a Hawaii cruise with a TA  , when we checked the Deck plans of Miracle as well as the Spirit & the other 2 spirit class ships we find  that they do not comply with the American  Disability Act for completely   accessible   state rooms with roll in showers , raised toilets with grab bars  & other  items to aid  handicapped   ,Additionally ,there is NO room for a small electric scooter nor wheel chair 

 

  We simply can't understand  how  any of the Spirit Class  ships are allowed to port in US ports & sail into US waters  not being ADA compliant 

 

 Does any one have a clue how Carnival can sail these ships  into US ports & not provide  suitable    & designed handicap cabins  for handicapped travelers ?

[cruisingguy007]

Don't feed. Carnival will comply with every ADA necessity as required by federal law. 

[chengkp75]

If you look at the Miracle's accessible deck plan (https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/~/media/Images/Ships/MI/DeckPlans/carnival-miracle-accessible-cruising-deck-plan-pdf.pdf)

you find that there are 5 fully accessible cabins.  While not a lot out of the around 1000 guest cabins, there are accessible cabins.  The ADA does not specify how many accessible cabins or rooms a lodging entity must provide, just that there are some available.  The limited number of accessible cabins on cruise ships has always been an item of concern, and why they are booked far in advance.

 

Just as a note, foreign flag cruise ships are not required to be fully compliant with the ADA.  SCOTUS ruled in "Spector v NCL" that while the cruise lines could not discriminate against the disabled, and that "reasonable" measures be made to accommodate them, other concerns like SOLAS trump the ADA for accessibility, and that existing ships only need make "reasonable" changes, not major structural changes to provide accessibility.  Further, they ruled that since Congress did not specifically mention foreign flag cruise ships in the Act, that based on international law, the ships do not need to meet the ADA with regards to the ship's "internal policies and procedures".  There are many ships that have areas that are not fully accessible, and need not be changed to become accessible as it would require major structural changes to the ship to make it happen.

[pe4all]

As chengkp75 said, Spirit class ships definitely have fully handicap accessible cabins.  I know this because my friend broke her foot before a cruise on Spirit and asked for, and was assigned an accessible cabin as she had a scooter at that time.   2 weeks before the cruise CCL called her up and asked if she would mind switching to another cabin as another cruiser who was wheelchair-bound needed that cabin with the roll-in shower, etc.  She gladly gave it up, as physically she could use a regular shower, needed no raised toilet, bars, etc.    CCL gave her a nice upgrade for being so cooperative.

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, pe4all said:

As chengkp75 said, Spirit class ships definitely have fully handicap accessible cabins.  I know this because my friend broke her foot before a cruise on Spirit and asked for, and was assigned an accessible cabin as she had a scooter at that time.   2 weeks before the cruise CCL called her up and asked if she would mind switching to another cabin as another cruiser who was wheelchair-bound needed that cabin with the roll-in shower, etc.  She gladly gave it up, as physically she could use a regular shower, needed no raised toilet, bars, etc.    CCL gave her a nice upgrade for being so cooperative.

Kudos for your friend and for Carnival for rewarding her. I wonder what they would have done if she said no. I believe they could reassign her without her consent according to the cruise contract. But, what they did is much better for customer relations.

[Aplmac]

These pics are not from a Spirit Class vessel

but we did have spacious Cabin 6207 on Carnival Victory

back in April of 2009 - when I took a few pics

of this wheelchair-accessible cabin

 

[mcrcruiser]

14 minutes ago, Aplmac said:

These pics are not from a Spirit Class vessel

but we did have spacious Cabin 6207 on Carnival Victory

back in April of 2009 - when I took a few pics

of this wheelchair-accessible cabin

 

Yes there is the Roll in Shower ;however ,as you already stated these are not photos from a Spirit class ship . According to Carnival information & we double checked it out , there are no roll in shower accessible  cabins on the Spirit Class ship . Additionally ,we  were not able to find any cabin that would have both a wider entry door ( wider doors are   made available for handicap cabins  on cruise vessels ) & or space to roll in a electric scooter . Yes ,there are larger cabins ,similar to suites but in a much higher category & still no roll in shower  We have scoured both the deck plans every deck & Carnival printed information .

 

 If there us such a larger accessible cabin on the spirit class vessel ,we sincerely would appreciate the cabin number for size & roll in shower  available  

[bigrednole]

I think the term used is "reasonable" accommodations. When we booked a room online (by accident), it was considered a handicap accessible room. The company we booked through didn't state that. We were contacted shortly after booking to verify we met the requirements and they understood our mistake. They said there are limited number of handicap accessible rooms on the ship and that it is due to safety. Once the rooms are booked, then others that require them have to find different sailings. 

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

I think the term used is "reasonable" accommodations. When we booked a room online (by accident), it was considered a handicap accessible room. The company we booked through didn't state that. We were contacted shortly after booking to verify we met the requirements and they understood our mistake. They said there are limited number of handicap accessible rooms on the ship and that it is due to safety. Once the rooms are booked, then others that require them have to find different sailings. 

We read the information that Carnival Cruise lines published 7 what they considered accessible was for a person using a cane .The same information said that these rooms were NOT Scooter   type rooms  /We checked casbin numbers 7303  & 8239  Both of these cabins are still available for our 2023 sailing 

Here is a link to Deck 8  & there is cabin 8239 ;as a example  . What is said is that the cabin is a extended balcony . If any one   Googles shipdeckplans   that web sire shows all ships of all cruise lines . Normally ,handicap accessible state rooms have a  wheel chair   type logo  right on the cabin . for what it is worth the Spirit class vessels have no such  wheel chair logos noted on  any of their cabins on any deck  .:  Link https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/Carnival-Miracle

[bigrednole]

I still think it is perfectly fine. The law says reasonable. I think it is reasonable to think and believe that Carnival does meet the requirements. Nothing specifies in this case a specific ship. If they have ships that accommodate people that need wheelchair, scooter, or whatever assistance, then they satisfy the requirement. What you are asking is far too narrow.

 

In the case defending Carnival, Ship A has 20 staterooms, Ship B has 10, and Ship C has 0 (numbers made up). They met the requirement and made reasonable accommodation. Just because you want Ship C does not mean Carnival does not meet it. Once the available rooms are full, then it is not Carnival's responsibility. 

 

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

I still think it is perfectly fine. The law says reasonable. I think it is reasonable to think and believe that Carnival does meet the requirements. Nothing specifies in this case a specific ship. If they have ships that accommodate people that need wheelchair, scooter, or whatever assistance, then they satisfy the requirement. What you are asking is far too narrow.

 

In the case defending Carnival, Ship A has 20 staterooms, Ship B has 10, and Ship C has 0 (numbers made up). They met the requirement and made reasonable accommodation. Just because you want Ship C does not mean Carnival does not meet it. Once the available rooms are full, then it is not Carnival's responsibility. 

 

Our cruise is aboard the Miracle not other ships . W e wish that there were any accessible state rooms aboard . Cabins 7303  & 8239 (the only 2 cabins that are available for booking for our cruise  on the Miracle  definitely  do not have entry doors wide enough  for a wheel chair  .They also are not ,according to Carnival info on their own web site accessible but only if you have a cain & NOT wheel chair or electric scooter accessible 

[kdr69]

15 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We read the information that Carnival Cruise lines published 7 what they considered accessible was for a person using a cane .The same information said that these rooms were NOT Scooter   type rooms  /We checked casbin numbers 7303  & 8239  Both of these cabins are still available for our 2023 sailing 

Here is a link to Deck 8  & there is cabin 8239 ;as a example  . What is said is that the cabin is a extended balcony . If any one   Googles shipdeckplans   that web sire shows all ships of all cruise lines . Normally ,handicap accessible state rooms have a  wheel chair   type logo  right on the cabin . for what it is worth the Spirit class vessels have no such  wheel chair logos noted on  any of their cabins on any deck  .:  Link https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/Carnival-Miracle

What your looking for is probably already booked but below is a list of the rooms on board that i saw on the deck plans for the Miracle.  I realize your needing a Fully accessible cabin and not an Ambulatory one but im just listing them all to show that yes they are compliant. As @chengkp75said ADA doesnt specify an exact number be available.  These cabins go fairly quickly sometimes.  

Interior Cabins - Fully accessible

4207-7102-7101

Interior Cabins - Ambulatory

4202-4203-4205-5238-5245

Extended Balcony Cabins - Fully Accessible

6281

Extended Balcony Cabins - Ambulatory

6234-7303-7260-8239-8234

 

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

I still think it is perfectly fine. The law says reasonable. I think it is reasonable to think and believe that Carnival does meet the requirements. Nothing specifies in this case a specific ship. If they have ships that accommodate people that need wheelchair, scooter, or whatever assistance, then they satisfy the requirement. What you are asking is far too narrow.

 

In the case defending Carnival, Ship A has 20 staterooms, Ship B has 10, and Ship C has 0 (numbers made up). They met the requirement and made reasonable accommodation. Just because you want Ship C does not mean Carnival does not meet it. Once the available rooms are full, then it is not Carnival's responsibility. 

 

Our cruise is aboard the Miracle not other ships . W e wish that there were any accessible state rooms aboard . Cabins 7303  & 8239 (the only 2 cabins that are available for booking for our cruise  on the Miracle  definitely  do not have entry doors wide enough  for a wheel chair  .They also are not ,according to Carnival info on their own web site accessible but only if you have a cain & NOT wheel chair or electric scooter accessible 

[bigrednole]

1 minute ago, mcrcruiser said:

Our cruise is aboard the Miracle not other ships . W e wish that there were any accessible state rooms aboard . Cabins 7303  & 8239 (the only 2 cabins that are available for booking for our cruise  on the Miracle  definitely  do not have entry doors wide enough  for a wheel chair  .They also are not ,according to Carnival info on their own web site accessible but only if you have a cain & NOT wheel chair or electric scooter accessible 

You are looking at a specific ship and not the company Carnival. I know Carnival has fully accessible rooms with everything you want, just not the ship you want. Unfortunately, that is a you issue and not a Carnival issue. You need to book far enough in advance for the limited number of rooms available, the ship that can accommodate your requirements, and when there is availability. You may not like the port you have to leave from, the itinerary, or length of the cruise. That becomes a choice. It also comes down to a decision whether a cruise is the right thing for you to do.

[mcrcruiser]

5 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

What your looking for is probably already booked but below is a list of the rooms on board that i saw on the deck plans for the Miracle.  I realize your needing a Fully accessible cabin and not an Ambulatory one but im just listing them all to show that yes they are compliant. As @chengkp75said ADA doesnt specify an exact number be available.  These cabins go fairly quickly sometimes.  

Interior Cabins - Fully accessible

4207-7102-7101

Interior Cabins - Ambulatory

4202-4203-4205-5238-5245

Extended Balcony Cabins - Fully Accessible

6281

Extended Balcony Cabins - Ambulatory

6234-7303-7260-8239-8234

 

We checked 6281 because we booked a balcony for this  Hawaii cruise  .The description  of this cabin states 185 sq ft  with a extended balcony  .This cabin door is not the large wheel chair door  nor a fully accessible cabin with roll in shower .Here is the link :https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/deckbydeck.php?ship=Carnival-Miracle&deck=6 

 

Does any one posting here ever personally need a fully accessible cabin ?

[mcrcruiser]

8 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

You are looking at a specific ship and not the company Carnival. I know Carnival has fully accessible rooms with everything you want, just not the ship you want. Unfortunately, that is a you issue and not a Carnival issue. You need to book far enough in advance for the limited number of rooms available, the ship that can accommodate your requirements, and when there is availability. You may not like the port you have to leave from, the itinerary, or length of the cruise. That becomes a choice. It also comes down to a decision whether a cruise is the right thing for you to do.

FWIW Only the Miracle out of Long Beach California sails roundtrip Hawaii & I booked with the TA in a casino rate   ,Casino rate deposits are NOT refundable   .The Panorama does not do the Hawaii cruise .It does the Mexican riviera cruise  . Other Carnival corporation Cruise Ships like the  Holland America Koningsdam  from San Diego  & Princes  Crown Princess   from San Pedro Calif  have fully accessible handicap cabins but again we had booked with the TA this Miracle ship  & again on a casino rate deal that Carnival Cruise lines promotes via e-mails 

Edited July 11, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[bigrednole]

3 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Does any one posting here ever personally need a fully accessible cabin ?

Most likely no because 99+% won't need one. 

[Knights on the Beach]

16 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Our cruise is aboard the Miracle not other ships . W e wish that there were any accessible state rooms aboard . Cabins 7303  & 8239 (the only 2 cabins that are available for booking for our cruise  on the Miracle  definitely  do not have entry doors wide enough  for a wheel chair  .They also are not ,according to Carnival info on their own web site accessible but only if you have a cain & NOT wheel chair or electric scooter accessible 

My mother had a travel wheelchair that was lightweight and smaller than a standard one. It definitely fit through regular doors. Is than an option for you?

[pogoism9]

I've been on the Pride numerous times. If you are saying that Spirit class cannot accommodate scooters then i'm going to have to call BS just based on the amount of scooters on every cruise that I see all over the ship. If they can't fit through the door, where are they hiding overnight?

[mpdog42]

6 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We checked 6281 because we booked a balcony for this  Hawaii cruise  .The description  of this cabin states 185 sq ft  with a extended balcony  .This cabin door is not the large wheel chair door  nor a fully accessible cabin with roll in shower .Here is the link :https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/deckbydeck.php?ship=Carnival-Miracle&deck=6 

 

Does any one posting here ever personally need a fully accessible cabin ?

I think you are letting your emotions run away...The Chief explained the Law and how Cruise Lines work with that law.. I strongly believe in ADA,  but when you have a disability there are going to be some limitations...

[kdr69]

6 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We checked 6281 because we booked a balcony for this  Hawaii cruise  .The description  of this cabin states 185 sq ft  with a extended balcony  .This cabin door is not the large wheel chair door  nor a fully accessible cabin with roll in shower .Here is the link :https://www.cruisedeckplans.com/DP/deckplans/deckbydeck.php?ship=Carnival-Miracle&deck=6 

The descriptions and measurements on the deck plans are generic.  Here is an actual pic of the bathroom from the same site for that cabin in the pictures section where is does say the cabin has been modified.  Cant find a picture of the entrance to the room but i cant see them making a roll in shower for a wheechair if you couldnt actually get it into the room in the first place.  And no i havent had to book one for myself just trying to be helpful.

[sanmarcosman]

6 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Casino rate deposits are NOT refundable 

There are many aspects to consider in addition to cost. The bitterness of poor access remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

[mcrcruiser]

We certainly wish that The Miracle was  a ship that  has  fully accessible staterooms  .That would solve our  problem   & there be no need for this discussion  or Carnival refund our  Casino rate deposit  & we will go to a different cruise line for Hawaii;  but ,do far they are hard headed about returning deposits booked as casino rates 

[mcrcruiser]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom2 said:

My mother had a travel wheelchair that was lightweight and smaller than a standard one. It definitely fit through regular doors. Is than an option for you?

No because we are both 82 & my wife can not push me  because of my weight & width of me for  only a extra wide wheel chair  & she has some medical conditions .Thus a electric  scooter answer to my mobility problems We have Never faced this  difficulty in over 80 past cruises 

[kdr69]

Here is the link to the actual cabin pics for 6281 on the Miracle

Carnival Miracle Stateroom 6281 (cruisedeckplans.com)