USA TODAY report that Canada is prepared to lift cruise ship ban November 2021

[Denny01]

9 minutes ago, K12Guy said:

That was meant as a joke, with reference to all the jazz we get from other countries about us bringing the damn virus to their country. We, in the U.S., have a long way to go to achieve herd immunity and with the current state of affairs we may not do it, unfortunately.

 

I understand. I toss in what I think is a joke and posters jump on it trashing me! 

 

Den

[mom says]

1 hour ago, K12Guy said:

I heard recently that Seattle has outlawed unvaccinated residents, right? Or is that just another social media thing? I know the answer.
If no one in Canada is unvaccinated then I may leave ship the next time I'm there! How about that?

Emojis are your friend. Try it sometime. Unless your purpose is just to rile people, your attempts at humor are subtle enough as to be almost undetectable.

[Blackduck59]

4 hours ago, Denny01 said:

Heck, Canada opens up ports in November, so I immediately jump over to book an Alaska cruise for Dec or Jan or Feb……..Nothing! What the heck!?! 

 

I guess I’ll just have to wait for my July2022 Alaska cruise…..and yes, it’s nice that cruise does have a Canadian port of call! Love it no matter how many times we pull into Victoria. Lovely place to explore over and over.

 

den

Were your previous visits during you aviator years Den?

It's nice to know that people who have visited our town want to return. I'll stand you a pint when you get here.

[pixiedust777]

Well there may not be many Canadians cruising since the cruise lines quietly changed the vaccine terms of who they classify as fully vaccinated yesterday.

Mixing of vaccines will no longer be recognized as being fully vaccinated.

Celebrity, RCCL, NCL, Princess, HAL and Carnival all changed their terms and conditions over the last 36 hours.
 

 

[Fouremco]

16 minutes ago, pixiedust777 said:

Well there may not be many Canadians cruising since the cruise lines quietly changed the vaccine terms of who they classify as fully vaccinated yesterday.

Mixing of vaccines will no longer be recognized as being fully vaccinated.

Celebrity, RCCL, NCL, Princess, HAL and Carnival all changed their terms and conditions over the last 36 hours.
 

 

With the countless available statistics on Canadian vaccinations, one that I've been unable to track down is the percentage of fully vaccinated Canadians who received the same vaccine and the percentage who received mixed doses. Consequently, I'm not sure how much of an impact this decision will have. There most certainly are some who won't be cruising in the near future, including several CC members, unfortunately, but there are also many of us who had two jabs of the same vaccine and won't be affected. 

[mom says]

36 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

...one that I've been unable to track down is the percentage of fully vaccinated Canadians who received the same vaccine and the percentage who received mixed doses.

According to the GOC website, as of earlier this week, roughly 50 million doses of the 2 mRNA vaccines had been distributed. Only about 3 million doses of AZ had been distributed. Given that some people received  double doses of AZ, the ratio of mixed to double doses is less than 1:10. 

 

While this will be distressing to those affected cruisers who wanted to cruise in the very near future, I think they are likely relatively few in number. And if the current studies on the efficacy of mixed doses are validated and accepted by the WHO, then I have no doubt the problem will go away soon.

[Fouremco]

Thanks mom! I had hoped to find the exact stats, but your analysis gives an excellent approximation. We are on the same page regarding the potential impact and the likely resolution.

[Bill Miller]

Meanwhile this past winter in Florida, many of our Canadian friends flew down and spent the season with the Sunshine State. They were able to get vaccinations. A simple rental receipt proved temporary residency.  Also the Stanley Cup stayed in FLorida, must be the weather.

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, Denny01 said:

Heck, Canada opens up ports in November, so I immediately jump over to book an Alaska cruise for Dec or Jan or Feb……..Nothing! What the heck!?! 

 

I guess I’ll just have to wait for my July2022 Alaska cruise…..and yes, it’s nice that cruise does have a Canadian port of call! Love it no matter how many times we pull into Victoria. Lovely place to explore over and over.

 

den

I heard they were going to modify an M-Class ship and make it into an Ice Breaker.  But the dry dock renovation got postponed due to the pandemic.  And most CC members were upset that they were going to ruin the view from the Sky Lounge during the 5PM happy hour.  But given the climate change, an Ice Breaker cruise ship might not be such a smart investment.🙂

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, JRG said:

 

The reality Blackduck is that Canada (and the world) is in a Black Swan Event.

 

It may get worse before it gets better for Canada.

 

The problem will be getting the vax to the boonies,  they will drag you down.

 

It's happening in our rural areas now,  so it will happen in yours too.

 

There is nothing you can do.

 

You are in a Black Swan Event.

 

 

OK you are calling the COVID pandemic a Black Swan Event.  Fair enough I guess for this one - but there are a lot of scientists who were predicting viral pandemics for years and we have had them in the past.   I am perhaps not understanding why you are relating a term like this to this Canada thread??  Maybe I am slow today.  

[JRG]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

OK you are calling the COVID pandemic a Black Swan Event.  Fair enough I guess for this one - but there are a lot of scientists who were predicting viral pandemics for years and we have had them in the past.

 

Yes,  most scientists would agree  fits the criteria for a Black Swan Event.   Therefore:

 

As it relates to the thread,   the fact is that the characteristics of this pandemic fit the criteria for the Black Swan Event,   that lends itself to,  shall we say,  unintended consequences,  or better yet,  unpredictable consequences,  far beyond just viral infection. Just "Following the Science" here.

 

In  my opinion it will be very difficult for Canada to reach acceptable vax rates because of its geography and other factors in time for next year.    Is it 'Realistic'.  Will they be able to prepare ports while they are deficient in vax rates?,   that will be a challenge and it goes for the entire supply chain which feeds the ports.   That's what I was thinking.

 

If it were left up to me,   I would let passengers choose their " Preferred Alaskan Departure Port",  and based on convenience,  and their travel preferences,  pick one or the other.  US Citizens should be able to sail round-trip to Alaska from Seattle,   or leave from Vancouver if they choose.**    That way US citizens who have seen Vancouver enough don't have to see it until they want to,   and the cruisers who want to spend a whole cruising day to try and visit it can go ahead and do so.   US citizens sail round-trip from Seattle they would not have to deal with Canadian immigration.

 

**Think of the decrease in gas emissions if we streamlined sailings from the Seattle and Vancouver this way and eliminated all the un-necessary cross-border transportation required to support the cruising industry.   CLIA should be hammering this home to get the PVSA canned,   but they have to walk a fine diplomatic line as they do this.

 

**aka "The Carbon Footprint Differential".

 

 

 

[K12Guy]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I heard they were going to modify an M-Class ship and make it into an Ice Breaker.  But the dry dock renovation got postponed due to the pandemic.  And most CC members were upset that they were going to ruin the view from the Sky Lounge during the 5PM happy hour.  But given the climate change, an Ice Breaker cruise ship might not be such a smart investment.🙂

Life and smart investments can both be such a challenge. Maybe put together a removable ice breaker bow that can be used for winter cruises and then removed for spring to fall cruises? But where to store the darn thing, right? And what if the water never freezes again?😎

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

Yes,  most scientists would agree  fits the criteria for a Black Swan Event.   Therefore:

 

As it relates to the thread,   the fact is that the characteristics of this pandemic fit the criteria for the Black Swan Event,   that lends itself to,  shall we say,  unintended consequences,  or better yet,  unpredictable consequences,  far beyond just viral infection. Just "Following the Science" here.

 

In  my opinion it will be very difficult for Canada to reach acceptable vax rates because of its geography and other factors in time for next year.    Is it 'Realistic'.  Will they be able to prepare ports while they are deficient in vax rates?,   that will be a challenge and it goes for the entire supply chain which feeds the ports.   That's what I was thinking.

 

If it were left up to me,   I would let passengers choose their " Preferred Alaskan Departure Port",  and based on convenience,  and their travel preferences,  pick one or the other.  US Citizens should be able to sail round-trip to Alaska from Seattle,   or leave from Vancouver if they choose.**    That way US citizens who have seen Vancouver enough don't have to see it until they want to,   and the cruisers who want to spend a whole cruising day to try and visit it can go ahead and do so.   US citizens sail round-trip from Seattle they would not have to deal with Canadian immigration.

 

**Think of the decrease in gas emissions if we streamlined sailings from the Seattle and Vancouver this way and eliminated all the un-necessary cross-border transportation required to support the cruising industry.   CLIA should be hammering this home to get the PVSA canned,   but they have to walk a fine diplomatic line as they do this.

 

**aka "The Carbon Footprint Differential".

 

 

 

Ok thanks for explaining.  You are lumping all vax rates and geographies together it seems.  Yes the highly remote areas of Canada with very limited populations maybe will not be highly vaccinated- but how will that affect the population centers and high-traffic ports which probably will have high vaccination rates?   Probably higher and more compliant than the US right now.  Remote areas in the US and in Canada are reachable with vaccines.  It is the remote minds that don't seem to be reachable.

[K12Guy]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

It is the remote minds that don't seem to be reachable.

Yes. And they are NOT country or continent specific, but I think the majority of those simple minds is probably here in the United States and many of them live here in Airy Zona. I'm amazed by the number of young adults who have taken a 'wait and see' attitude about the vaccinations. One young man just returned to work after having a bad bout with C-19 and he now says he won't be vaccinated because he's already had it. Like the flu I had and will never have again, right?

[JRG]

Not worth splittin

36 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

but how will that affect the population centers and high-traffic ports which probably will have high vaccination rates?  

 

Only guessing but....

 

Let's say the Mix and not Match syndrome becomes the culprit by invalidating effectivity or invalidating cruiser insurance policies or other vaccination requirements,   If this happens the jury could be out for some time on this one.

 

Or what if the Delta variant continues to make itself known in greater numbers at said ports.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by JRG

[mom says]

16 minutes ago, JRG said:

Not worth splittin

 

Only guessing but....

 

Let's say the Mix and not Match syndrome becomes the culprit by invalidating effectivity or invalidating cruiser insurance policies or other vaccination requirements,   If this happens the jury could be out for some time on this one.

 

Or what if the Delta variant continues to make itself known in greater numbers at said ports.

 

 

Please just stop. Read the big red banner about COVID posts. Your personal opinions, theorizing,  and speculations are not furthering the discussion started by the OP and will get the thread closed.

[JRG]

38 minutes ago, mom says said:

Please just stop. Read the big red banner about COVID posts. Your personal opinions, theorizing,  and speculations are not furthering the discussion started by the OP and will get the thread closed.

 

Its about the OP's question and its' back on track. 

 

Bring your varsity game.

[JRG]

21 hours ago, mom says said:

While this will be distressing to those affected cruisers who wanted to cruise in the very near future, I think they are likely relatively few in number. And if the current studies on the efficacy of mixed doses are validated and accepted by the WHO, then I have no doubt the problem will go away soon.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion on this.  That is an interesting theory or speculation about the problem going away and I hope you are right.

 

 

[JRG]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:44 AM, TeeRick said:

OK you are calling the COVID pandemic a Black Swan Event.  Fair enough I guess for this one - but there are a lot of scientists who were predicting viral pandemics for years and we have had them in the past.

 

Yes,  but what was not predicted by the scientist was the mixed dosage administration by public health.   From Canadian sources approx 1 million have a mixed dosage.   The question is has anybody done the clinical trials to test the 9 combinations (or more) of mixed vaccinations (needed for time spacing) or are the talking heads going to green-light it because it is too complicated to undo.

 

I should let you @TeeRickexplain this better to our readers.   It could affect their global travelers adversely too.

 

This conundrum puts the Canadian planned re-opening in jeopardy and Canadian travelers and cruisers should be watching and planning carefully because of the uncertainty.

 

It may also put pressure on the the US-Canadian border non-essential travel embargo until it is sorted out or people are re-vaccinated,  which just takes time.

 

[DirtyDawg]

22 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Ok thanks for explaining.  You are lumping all vax rates and geographies together it seems.  Yes the highly remote areas of Canada with very limited populations maybe will not be highly vaccinated- but how will that affect the population centers and high-traffic ports which probably will have high vaccination rates?   Probably higher and more compliant than the US right now.  Remote areas in the US and in Canada are reachable with vaccines.  It is the remote minds that don't seem to be reachable.

Canada has a higher percentage of it's population fully vaccinated compared to the U.S. as of this past weekend but some of those are the mixed vaccine cases which maybe is what @JRD is referring to. But even adjusting to that, the rate would be only slightly less than the current U.S. rate.

 

Negotiations regarding the reopening are currently underway and a big issue will be the acceptance of each other's fully vaccinated status.  I'm not sure if this would be a big sticking point for non-essential travel as I have not heard about any issues with all of the essential travel between the two counties. There have been are tens of thousands of border crossings each day between the two counties even during this pandemic. 

 

The time time to re-open the border is mid august so we'll see what the results will be pretty soon. 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[ETHTrader]

Looks like Canada is reopening to US Citizens starting on August 9th as well

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/canada-open-fully-vaccinated-us-citizens/

[DirtyDawg]

33 minutes ago, ETHTrader said:

Looks like Canada is reopening to US Citizens starting on August 9th as well

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/canada-open-fully-vaccinated-us-citizens/

A buddy of mine, who is from the States, texted me about this. He wants to come up ASAP and go to a couple of Blue Jays games. He was a bit disappointed when I told him that they are only selling 15,000 seats per game (capacity is 50,000) and that everyone will need to be masked up inside the stadium. 

 

Yes, it looks like we'll be opening up to fully vaccinated Americans, but remember when you come up, you won't be in Kansas anymore!

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[Fogfog]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, Fly and Sail said:

Because there are so many cruises in Canada during the winter. Little jokers they are...

Exactly

Its political theater.... they might as well date it May 2022

[mom says]

1 hour ago, ETHTrader said:

Looks like Canada is reopening to US Citizens starting on August 9th as well

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/canada-open-fully-vaccinated-us-citizens/

I see the article omitted a few other details. Proof of fully vaccinated with an accepted vaccine +14 days minimum, yes. But they will also need a PCR test within 72 hours and have uploaded all of the required information into the ArriveCan app before arrival. They will also need a quarantine plan, just in case. They will also need to abide by local COVID  protocols.

[TeeRick]

6 hours ago, JRG said:

 

Yes,  but what was not predicted by the scientist was the mixed dosage administration by public health.   From Canadian sources approx 1 million have a mixed dosage.   The question is has anybody done the clinical trials to test the 9 combinations (or more) of mixed vaccinations (needed for time spacing) or are the talking heads going to green-light it because it is too complicated to undo.

 

I should let you @TeeRickexplain this better to our readers.   It could affect their global travelers adversely too.

 

This conundrum puts the Canadian planned re-opening in jeopardy and Canadian travelers and cruisers should be watching and planning carefully because of the uncertainty.

 

It may also put pressure on the the US-Canadian border non-essential travel embargo until it is sorted out or people are re-vaccinated,  which just takes time.

 

There is another thread on this.  But not really any good explanations there either. It is a mess really.  I am hoping that the countries involved will work with the cruise lines to propose a path forward.  Mixed doses were approved in those countries without clinical studies. But the real world post vaccination data seems to indicate that some mixed doses have been working.