Celebrity requiring all passengers 12+ to show proof of vaccine in defiance of FL Law?

[fstuff1]

Got this email for my cruise out of Ft Lauderdale this Fri (8/27):

 

"The governments of Antigua, Dominica and the US Virgin Islands, have now advised all passengers ages 12 and older, traveling aboard a cruise ship, must be fully vaccinated in order for the ship to be allowed entry into St. Johns, Roseau, St. Thomas, St. Croix, or St. John.

 

To comply with this requirement, guests ages 12 and older must provide documentation of full vaccination at the terminal as a condition for boarding."

 

 

Celebrity is defying FL law that says you cant make people show vax card!

NCL winning their lawsuit vs that law only applies to them. No other cruise line was part of their lawsuit.

 

so What am i missing?

Or is Celebrity willing to pay the fine?

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by fstuff1

[songbird1329]

Norwegian’s lawsuit…Norwegian got a preliminary injunction against enforcement.

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

Got this email for my cruise out of Ft Lauderdale this Fri (8/27):

 

"The governments of Antigua, Dominica and the US Virgin Islands, have now advised all passengers ages 12 and older, traveling aboard a cruise ship, must be fully vaccinated in order for the ship to be allowed entry into St. Johns, Roseau, St. Thomas, St. Croix, or St. John.

 

To comply with this requirement, guests ages 12 and older must provide documentation of full vaccination at the terminal as a condition for boarding."

 

 

Celebrity is defying FL law that says you cant make people show vax card!

NCL winning their lawsuit vs that law only applies to them. No other cruise line was part of their lawsuit.

 

so What am i missing?

Or is Celebrity willing to pay the fine?

 

Celebrity is defying FL law that says you cant make people show vax card!  But are they then able to say, it's OK if you do not want to show the vax card, but we don't have to allow you to board?

[fstuff1]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Celebrity is defying FL law that says you cant make people show vax card! 

 

But are they then able to say:

it's OK if you do not want to show the vax card  but we don't have to allow you to board?

 

ahh.. parsing the legal definition.

but if this was the case, then why all the angst for months after the FL law was passed?

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by fstuff1

[PTC DAWG]

They have been doing this, nothing to see here. 

[dkjretired]

Some of these vaccinations requirements may be in violation of Federal laws. Cruise lines follow ADA as far as service animals, what if someone can’t get the shots for a medical reason and get denied boarding.  Could have another discussion on Hippa.

[RichYak]

It's not a law, it's an executive order only punishable by fine. And that's only if Florida chooses to enforce the order. If they do, Celebrity won't pay, Florida would need to sue, and there's already been precedent that Florida will lose.

[PTC DAWG]

Just now, dkjretired said:

Some of these vaccinations requirements may be in violation of Federal laws. Cruise lines follow ADA as far as service animals, what if someone can’t get the shots for a medical reason and get denied boarding.  Could have another discussion on Hippa.

Cruising is not a right. Cruise lines can deny anyone from boarding for any reason. 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

ahh.. parsing the legal definition.

but if this was the case, then why all the angst for months after the FL law was passed?

 

I am not parsing anything, I have no dog in this hunt, I don't sail again until 2022 and when I do it is def not from FL.  I was asking a legitimate question to which I do not know the answer.

[dkjretired]

6 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Cruising is not a right. Cruise lines can deny anyone from boarding for any reason. 

Disagree, see what happens if they deny boarding to someone with a legitimate service dog.

[bEwAbG]

You cannot get on a plane without the visa you need to enter your destination if it requires one.  This is no different.  The countries where they are going have entrance requirements.  Celebrity cannot simply ignore those. 

[BigAl94]

Their ship, their rules.

[mom says]

2 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

You cannot get on a plane without the visa you need to enter your destination if it requires one.  This is no different.  The countries where they are going have entrance requirements.  Celebrity cannot simply ignore those. 

Bingo. 

Plus, HIPAA does not apply. Nor does ADA, since vaccination refusal is not a recognized disability, and even if it was, there is no reasonable accommodation if the itinerary has a port that requires 100% vaccination in order to dock.

It's your right not to be vaccinated.  It's their right to refuse to allow you on their ship.

[lggfly]

I'm no lawyer, but I believe there is a difference between Celebrity outright defying the Governor's Executive Order and Celebrity adhering to requirements of ports to which they are sailing.

[wrk2cruise]

14 minutes ago, RichYak said:

It's not a law, it's an executive order only punishable by fine. And that's only if Florida chooses to enforce the order. If they do, Celebrity won't pay, Florida would need to sue, and there's already been precedent that Florida will lose.

 

Executive order expired and was replaced by a FL State law on July 1.

[PTC DAWG]

9 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

Disagree, see what happens if they deny boarding to someone with a legitimate service dog.

Read the contract…That said, I doubt they would deny someone solely on having a dog..

[RichYak]

5 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

Executive order expired and was replaced by a FL State law on July 1.

Ahh, I didn't know that. Still only punishable by fine?

[Babr]

32 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

ahh.. parsing the legal definition.

but if this was the case, then why all the angst for months after the FL law was passed?

 

Because the CDC guidelines allowed 5% unvaccinated so cruise lines could ask you to voluntarily show proof. If you chose not to, you were subject to capacity-limited space. Service was not denied on vaccine status rather it was capacity controlled.

 

Now several ports are requiring 100% vaccinated, and ships must present manifest verifying that or they are denied port entry. Passengers over 12 must prove status before the ship sails. Even if there were space in the 5% group, anyone eligible to be vaccinated but was not would be denied boarding. Service now denied based on vaccination status.

[gold1953]

I would think at this stage of covid that a person who medically cannot get a vaccine would be laying low and not cruising. This leaves us with those who are refusing.. So how does it work if the cruise line has to allow these folks to board and suddenly it becomes a cruise to no where due to the selfishness of a few .. or even one???  sorry passengers but  we are not permitted in any of our ports .. This spells disaster !!

[Denny01]

I think the point of this thread is X will require all passengers to be vaccinated because of those port requirements so there is no ‘cruise to nowhere’ and no disaster. If NCL got an injunction prior to these ports requiring proof, then X and all other cruise lines have even more ammo for any legal issues. 

 

My view is this is a Great Thing! I’m cruising in Nov 2021 for Thanksgiving and it includes St Thomas which means we will be on a ship with all vaccinated passengers (I know, plus kids). Fantastic.

 

Sad that small Caribbean islands care more for their citizens than ‘certain’ other places. 

 

And by the way, these discussions are important for all of us to understand what the upcoming requirements may very well be. If someone refuses to be vaccinated, then they need to rethink their vacation options. And those of us who are concerned on being onboard with unvaccinated people for an extended time can now see this, if it occurs, as greatly lowering the risks. 

 

Den

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, fstuff1 said:

 

 

 

 

so What am i missing?

Or is Celebrity willing to pay the fine?

 

What you are missing is a complete reading of first the Executive Order and then the Florida Law.

 

Read them. Carefully. Completely.

 

The answer is there in black and white which shows that Celebrity is legally allowed to asked for this information.

 

The other option is to search Cruise Critic. There has been numerous posts that explain the wording in the EO and Law.

 

 

 

[HappyCamper49]

55 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

Disagree, see what happens if they deny boarding to someone with a legitimate service dog.

Are you kidding?  Deny boarding a service dog?  Ha!  On my 2017 and 2018 Celebrity cruises we saw two small dogs that were not service dogs or emotional support dogs.  On our 2019 Celebrity cruise two women brought a HUGE POODLE onboard.  That that dog was allowed in the Oceanview Cafe too!

[dkjretired]

54 minutes ago, mom says said:

Bingo. 

Plus, HIPAA does not apply. Nor does ADA, since vaccination refusal is not a recognized disability, and even if it was, there is no reasonable accommodation if the itinerary has a port that requires 100% vaccination in order to dock.

It's your right not to be vaccinated.  It's their right to refuse to allow you on their ship.

Refusal to vaccinate is not a recognized disability but some people have underlying diseases that may cause them not to vaccinate that definitely are recognized disability. My next door neighbor has a form of MS that his doctors recommend no vaccination.

[dkjretired]

11 minutes ago, HappyCamper49 said:

Are you kidding?  Deny boarding a service dog?  Ha!  On my 2017 and 2018 Celebrity cruises we saw two small dogs that were not service dogs or emotional support dogs.  On our 2019 Celebrity cruise two women brought a HUGE POODLE onboard.  That that dog was allowed in the Oceanview Cafe too!

That a different story that’s why I said a legitimate service dog.nthey are in the process of eliminating the foo foo dogs.

 

just an FYI, the lawsuits in NY City against the vaccine requirement in restaurants are using among other things violations of Hippa and ADA.

Edited August 21, 2021 by dkjretired

[karl_nj]

1 hour ago, dkjretired said:

Could have another discussion on Hippa.

 

Celebrity is a now not just a cruise line, but also a health care provider or a health insurance company?  Who knew!