PAX dies from Covid after being in a hospital in Belize

[geocruiser]

https://www.today.com/news/passenger-dies-covid-19-amid-outbreak-carnival-cruise-ship-t228939

 

She was from the Vista.  Very sad.

Edited August 24, 2021 by geocruiser

[sanger727]

What doesn't seem clear from the articles I've read on it, are if this woman was actually vaccinated; or if she was in the 5% with exemptions. That seems like a critical piece of information. If she was in the 5% with exemptions, curious if the fact that this occurred and she died is playing at all into Carnivla's decision to deny exemptions to adults.

[ontheweb]

5 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

What doesn't seem clear from the articles I've read on it, are if this woman was actually vaccinated; or if she was in the 5% with exemptions. That seems like a critical piece of information. If she was in the 5% with exemptions, curious if the fact that this occurred and she died is playing at all into Carnivla's decision to deny exemptions to adults.

That would be interesting to know, but I doubt we ever will. I know HIPAA only applies to medical providers, but Carnival  must have provided some care and decided to transfer her to a hospital in Belize. This would make them a medical provider and preclude them from releasing any medical information such as her vaccine status.

[firefly333]

9 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

What doesn't seem clear from the articles I've read on it, are if this woman was actually vaccinated; or if she was in the 5% with exemptions. That seems like a critical piece of information. If she was in the 5% with exemptions, curious if the fact that this occurred and she died is playing at all into Carnivla's decision to deny exemptions to adults.

Previous articles says yes she was vaccinated and no not pretested to board. 

[Moviela]

Reading carefully, the poor passenger may have tested positive for covid, but it does NOT say she died from it. Many people die with covid, but the clinical cause of their demise is something not associated with the virus.

[Aplmac]

31 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Previous articles says yes she was vaccinated

and no not pre-tested to board. 

 

Passenger may have been overweight

and/or other serious comorbidity problems

that didn't help her survive?

[sanger727]

42 minutes ago, Moviela said:

Reading carefully, the poor passenger may have tested positive for covid, but it does NOT say she died from it. Many people die with covid, but the clinical cause of their demise is something not associated with the virus.

 

Actually, that is the title of the article "Passenger dies of Covid-19" not "Passenger dies with Covid-19"

 

Article also says "The woman departed on the Carnival Vista with her family on July 31 and tested positive for COVID-19 after experiencing respiratory complications, the Times reported. She was admitted to a hospital in Belize and put on a ventilator before being evacuated to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and receiving treatment."

 

Which sounds to be a typical covid-19 death. The distinction between dying of covid vs dying with covid has been a standard distraction through this whole thing.

 

Ex: The person's cause of death is pneumonia, and they also tested positive for covid - therefore they didn't die from covid. When in fact, the pneumonia was caused by covid complications. A bit like saying someone who OD-ed on heroin died from respiratory failure; they just happened to also test positive for a high amount of heroin... No, high amounts of heroin cause respiratory failure. 

[jfunk138]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

What doesn't seem clear from the articles I've read on it, are if this woman was actually vaccinated; or if she was in the 5% with exemptions. That seems like a critical piece of information. If she was in the 5% with exemptions, curious if the fact that this occurred and she died is playing at all into Carnivla's decision to deny exemptions to adults.

If she were unvaccinated, you can bet it would be in headlines everywhere.  When those 2 passengers on the early Royal sailing tested positive, the "unvaccinated" part was trumpeted everywhere (so much for HIPAA in that case).

 

I think it's safe to say that this woman was fully vaccinated.

[sanger727]

6 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

If she were unvaccinated, you can bet it would be in headlines everywhere.  When those 2 passengers on the early Royal sailing tested positive, the "unvaccinated" part was trumpeted everywhere (so much for HIPAA in that case).

 

I think it's safe to say that this woman was fully vaccinated.

 

Not sure that that's a logical conclusion. As @ontheweb stated, HIPAA only applies to medical providers. So you just test positive on a cruise ship test, doesn't apply. They can tout that to whoever they want. If you get sick and need to be treated in the medical bay, the information that the medical bay collects is private. So a positive test that doesn't need medical treatment can freely be shared. If someone is sick under any circumstances, the medical care should be private. 

[Jamesatgsu]

5 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Not sure that that's a logical conclusion. As @ontheweb stated, HIPAA only applies to medical providers. So you just test positive on a cruise ship test, doesn't apply. They can tout that to whoever they want. If you get sick and need to be treated in the medical bay, the information that the medical bay collects is private. So a positive test that doesn't need medical treatment can freely be shared. If someone is sick under any circumstances, the medical care should be private. 

They also aren't American, so I'm not sure HIPAA has any application on them outside the US.

[magictam]

1 hour ago, Moviela said:

Reading carefully, the poor passenger may have tested positive for covid, but it does NOT say she died from it. Many people die with covid, but the clinical cause of their demise is something not associated with the virus.

I think the general thought is that had she not had Covid it probably would not exasperated her underlying conditions. The weather she died actually have Covid or it was related to Covid I still classified as a Covid death. She probably would not have died then had she not had Covid. But we’ll never know 

[firefly333]

52 minutes ago, Aplmac said:

 

Passenger may have been overweight

and/or other serious comorbidity problems

that didn't help her survive?

Previous news said she had underlying health issues. I looked at her picture and she didnt look overweight. They didnt say what underlying health issues. 

 

She went from I dont feel so well to do excursion to needing a ventilator in hours is why this is so scary. Imo testing 3 days before proves very little. It's the journey to the ship and boarding I worry about. After that I can avoid groups. 

 

The reason this is so in the news is it was made public by the lady and her family. They didnt have insurance to air transport her from the hospital in Belize to the one in Oklahoma. THEY started a go fund me page to raise money due to them not having the money.  That's why there have been 8 other threads on this..from buy insurance etc.. 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by firefly333

[arkaine23]

37 minutes ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Just saw a blurb about it on my local Phoenix news this a.m.

Story hit the local news in Houston today also.

 

Carnival's statement:

 

"Carnival has implemented a suite of protocols that are designed to flex up as needed to adapt to the changing public health situation related to COVID-19. We meet the standards for a vaccinated cruise as defined by the CDC, with at least 95 percent of our guests and all of our crew being vaccinated, and then implemented additional measures, as we are now requiring vaccinated guests to present both proof of vaccination and a negative COVID test at check-in. Those few guests who cannot be vaccinated are tested twice before boarding the ship, and again at debarkation. And all guests must wear masks in the indoor areas of the ship where people gather, such as dining rooms, theaters and casinos. Unfortunately, no venue on land or at sea is COVID-free right now, but we are committed to protecting the health and safety of our guests, crew and the communities we visit and have not hesitated to act quickly and go beyond existing public health guidelines.

Specifically to your question about the death of a Carnival Vista guest:

We are very sorry to hear about the death of a guest who sailed on Carnival Vista. Regrettably, there is a fair amount of disinformation about the circumstances of this matter. The guest almost certainly did not contract COVID on our ship, and she was assisted with expert medical care on board and was ultimately evacuated from Belize after we provided a resource to her family. We have continued to provide support to her family and are not going to add to their sadness by commenting further."

Edited August 24, 2021 by arkaine23

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

Ex: The person's cause of death is pneumonia, and they also tested positive for covid - therefore they didn't die from covid. When in fact, the pneumonia was caused by covid complications. A bit like saying someone who OD-ed on heroin died from respiratory failure; they just happened to also test positive for a high amount of heroin... No, high amounts of heroin cause respiratory failure. 

Kind of like many flu deaths aren't really from flu.

 

If not for covid weakening the immune system, your fictitious person would not have developed pneumonia, and would still be alive.

 

The heroin death is a red herring, and not mentioned in any of the articles.

 

Likely the poor lady was exposed prior to the cruise and there is a chance pre-cruise testing (now required) would have picked it up from her or any of her extended family on the ship.

Edited August 24, 2021 by BlerkOne

[MarkWiltonM]

One thing to note is that the woman who died was 77. The elderly are more likely to have serious illness even if vaccinated, and it's also thought that the elderly may not mount as good a response to the Covid vaccine as younger people. This is true of many vaccines including the annual flu vaccine, which is given to those 65 and over in a high-dose formula with 4 times as much antigen

[crewsweeper]

While at first blush it appears the lady, who was 77 BTW, died in Belize.  But she died in Oklahoma. Was Medvacd.

Did she have respiratory issues prior to boarding?   Was she over weight?  Have diabetes? High blood pressure?  Was she or was she not vaccinated?  Elderly do have some respiratory issues with the vaccine.  Mostly of the sniffle variety but still not all elderly can handle the vaccine.  Given her age I would assume if she was vaccinated it was back in January or December.  Did she get the COVID strain in Belize?  Did she get it from the crew who had COVID and were isolated, assuming any of those made contact with her? 

 

Guess we'll never know.  Just another sad tale in this pandemic that no one has a real clue on how to overcome.

Edited August 24, 2021 by crewsweeper

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Did she have respiratory issues prior to boarding?    Was she or was she not vaccinated?  Did she get the COVID strain in Belize?  Did she get it from the crew who had COVID and were isolated, assuming any of those made contact with her? 

In order:

Unknown, not reported AFAIK.  Yes, she was vaccinated from what I recall.  No, she was sick before Belize.  Carnival thinks she got it before boarding.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Previous news said she had underlying health issues. I looked at her picture and she didnt look overweight. They didnt say what underlying health issues. 

 

She went from I dont feel so well to do excursion to needing a ventilator in hours is why this is so scary. Imo testing 3 days before proves very little. It's the journey to the ship and boarding I worry about. After that I can avoid groups. 

 

The reason this is so in the news is it was made public by the lady and her family. They didnt have insurance to air transport her from the hospital in Belize to the one in Oklahoma. THEY started a go fund me page to raise money due to them not having the money.  That's why there have been 8 other threads on this..from buy insurance etc.. 

 

 

That makes sense.  She was also 77 yrs old.  

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

If she were unvaccinated, you can bet it would be in headlines everywhere.  When those 2 passengers on the early Royal sailing tested positive, the "unvaccinated" part was trumpeted everywhere (so much for HIPAA in that case).

 

I think it's safe to say that this woman was fully vaccinated.

HIPAA only applied to health insurance providers.  If Carnival does not bill medical insurance, they are only obligated by professional courtesy not to disclose passenger personal information.   

[cscurlock]

I think the problem with this story is that it tells you absolutely nothing about the person other than their age and the state they came from.  Nothing about actual vaccination status, comorbidities, what vaccine they took.  There is not enough information there to make a judgement.  

[Alibaster McGillicutty]

Whether you are hearing the story for the first time or the 100th time, let it serve as a reminder to remain vigilant with this nasty virus.  Protocols by cruise lines are trying to adjust in real-time and are in place to minimize the spread.  They are in place not just for you but everyone around you.  Even those that think they are perfectly healthy and vaccinated.

 

I've heard "underlying health conditions" oh so much in the last 1.5years and know of a few that had no idea they has such a thing until it was too late.  If you want to know if you have an existing condition....get Covid....it will let you know apparently.

 

[firefly333]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Previous articles says yes she was vaccinated and no not pretested to board. 

 

28 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

I think the problem with this story is that it tells you absolutely nothing about the person other than their age and the state they came from.  Nothing about actual vaccination status, comorbidities, what vaccine they took.  There is not enough information there to make a judgement.  

I stated earlier in this thread YES she was vaccinated and that I'd read many other earlier news sources which stated she was vaccinated.  ..since I keep seeing people who either dont see I said she was vaccinated or want to speculate .. I used google to show YES she was vaccinated.  We know this.

 

 

[starri]

2 hours ago, arkaine23 said:

And all guests must wear masks in the indoor areas of the ship where people gather, such as dining rooms, theaters and casinos.

I've seen enough videos of people sailing on the Mardi Gras to know that's not true.  Or if it is, it's not being enforced.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, starri said:

I've seen enough videos of people sailing on the Mardi Gras to know that's not true.  Or if it is, it's not being enforced.

As in the current cruise?

[starri]

In fairness, at least some of them seem to be from the inaugural.  That shouldn't matter, they should have been enforcing the policy all along.