New Princess Sphere class ships?

[Highwaydude]

After looking over the deck plans. I would assume that Deck 17 is now the Lido deck and from the layout it looks like the World Fresh Market place is no longer there. If my guess is right from looking at the photo of the ship, It is now going to be located on Deck 8 and in the rear section of the ship with outdoor eating options on both sides.  You can see the large glass wrap around deck there.  Which if correct is disappointing to me. I enjoy it up on the Lido deck.  Time will tell as they reveal more details. 

[CalTexCruiser]

33 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

NCL Prima has interior solo cabins that are 94 square feet small. Want a dose of claustrophobia, anyone?

 

 

Is that a picture from a cruise ship or from the local insane asylum?

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I found this ad in an old Cruise Critic thread - you could book a 3 night "Party Cruise" in 1978 on the original Sun Princess for $237pp - before taxes and port fees.  Adjusted for inflation that would be $1075pp, for an inside cabin, not including taxes, for a 3 night cruise.  The original Sun Princess had 1 main dining room with the occasional pop-up deck buffet.  1 small pool, no hot tub, a small single level show lounge, etc.  Compare that to what will be on offer on the new ship!  I'll take bigger and more options with a muti-class setup, with the "average" person staying in more luxury, and with more choice than those who sailed 40 years ago had in any cabin grade!

 

 

Sun Princess I 1971-1988

Edited September 16, 2022 by AtlantaCruiser72

[oteixeira]

4 hours ago, Kay S said:

We are focused on the "wealthy" here, but that's only part of it.  They can't fill megaships with wealthy customers, so what about the rest of it?  Kids.  Families. Lots of kids to fill those 3rd and 4th bunks in all those cabins.  Princess is doing a smoke and mirrors thing here, saying "Ooo look at the shiny thing," but ignore all those kids, please.  I read about the "Classier Carnival" theory floating around.  That's the goal.  Thousands of families with a nice wall between them and the rich folk. 

Just understand that the reason other lines are doing ship within a ship is because NCL consistently shows that the Haven guests have the highest on board spend (huge for the lines) and those 3+10% of the rooms on this new ship (based on NCL numbers) actually account for about 50-60% of the total fares collected....so, that is why the areas get bigger and bigger, and also why they concentrate so heavily on them while not worrying as much about the inside room that sleeps 4 with multiple pull down beds.  

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

The problem I have seen as lines have moved to ship within a ship route with special dining rooms, is invariably the quality of the MDR takes a hit.  It does so for two reasons  1. They need to differentiate those dining venues from the MDR (unlike the current Princess approach where it is basically the same menu),  So you end up seeing some menu items only showing up in the special dining rooms and some of the higher end items vanishing from the MDR.  2. Ship food budgets and staffing is pretty much fixed.  As a result a larger share per person of those resources with go to the special dining rooms resulting in some impact to both the staffing and food quality.  Saw this on Celebrity when they made this move. Saw it to some degree as well on Royal.

 

I do not have an objection to those that pay more getting more, but I do have an objection when the changes impact the quality and value of what I get for my travel dollar.  

 

Well will continue to book Princess (currently running about 70 days per year), but will change if and when we see changes impacting the quality of the experience. Probably move to more HAL and Oceania.

I suppose my idea would never work.  I do not like it when any business (including consumer products) reduces the quality of their product - or the quantity you get - and keeps price more or less the same.  I am not stupid.  I realize things cost more over time.  I don't want my product dumbed down or made worse.  I can suck it up and pay appropriately more - and I'd rather do so in order to keep the similar quality. 

 

I also realize if competition is doing the same thing, it leaves an organization little choice.  They either go along to get along, or they need some new kind of distinctive marketing campaign in order to attract and retain customers willing to pay to maintain standards. 

 

So, I don't see why the plebes like me on a Princess ship cannot keep things delivered/provided the same as before at a reasonable price point and also provide more exclusive experiences for those willing to pay.  This was going on before Covid pauses, but it seems the direction now is to have cutbacks in the standard stuff and offer a menu of premium options at ever-higher prices.

 

I would imagine Princess pays a lot of attention to what goes on at X and NCL and how it is being received.  

 

The real test comes when it's all delivered with new Sun Princess and see what is actually experienced.  Certainly, there is a lot more space to work with, and IDK how it's all getting apportioned, so have to wait on that part.

 

But the general concept of more separation within the ship doesn't appeal.  Yes, extra premium services have existed now for some time:  Sanctuary, SD restaurants, CT & WMD meals, CC dining.  None of those things  needed to degrade the regular dining experience, or the buffet experience.  Yes, some deck real estate was taken over for Sanctuaries (but in the beginning, I think some of that expansion was using new space not used before on some ships???).  Anyway, I have used Sanctuary and not used it and I have never felt there was insufficient deck space.  

 

My main concerns would be further degradation of food (and I am expecting some of that already when we step aboard in a couple of weeks) and lack of public common space and access to it due to a lot of specialized zones. 

 

We shall see.  When a company downgrades its product, I usually look around for a replacement.  Perhaps we are jumping the gun here, so I am willing to see what happens in 2024 first.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Steelers36

[cruzsnooze]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

However the question then becomes where else to they take that space from.  

 

No sour grapes or even a question of affordability.  It is a question of what negative impacts occur that reduce the value of the experience of the remaining passengers.

 

 

     It can positively impact remaining passengers by supplementing their fare. Do you think Princess makes any money ( or very little) on an inside cabin? Without the higher priced cabins the fare would be much higher for lower category cabins. 

     When did it become a secret that money talks? All business' go after the most money to their bottom line and higher priced items and venues are more profitable.

  Is it any different that suites get included laundry and a mini bar?  My one day turn around for laundry probably effects those not in a suite to 2-3 day turn around. 

   Looking at the posted prices in a previous post I personally won't be paying those prices for a suite on a mass market line when I could go to Viking or Azamara or Oceania. 

[Thrak]

59 minutes ago, Sea Hag said:

That's not the smallest interior I've ever seen. On some NCL ship or another, we were in one that was 127 square feet. That number really stuck in my memory.

 

Our first cruise was in an inside cabin on Sea Princess. A323 - 135 sq. ft You had to go outside to change your mind. We had a great cruise and I got hooked.

[PescadoAmarillo]

4 hours ago, Syracusefan44 said:

I hope these 4000+ passenger ships are not a trend for Princess and they build at least one smaller ship with a capacity of 1500 passengers or less.
 

After cruising exclusively with Princess over the past 16 years my wife and I decided to take a look at the itineraries offered by Holland America on the Volendam which has a capacity of 1425 passengers.  We have decided to give them and book a 28 day cruise to the Amazon River.  They also have some fantastic itineraries to French Polynesia, Africa, etc. on this small ship.

 

We love Princess Cruises and hope they don’t become like Royal Caribbean   with a fleet of mega ships. 

That is where my interest lies, too. The ship is not, and won’t anytime soon be the destination for me, regardless of beautiful features that I’ll look at one time and then spend the rest of my cruise looking for a place to sit. 

[Wishing on a star]

Totally agree CruzSnooz...  A suite on Princess just not within what we perceive to be our budget.  Even when stretching the amount we can spend.   If it was, I would be looking at Viking itineraries in a heartbeat!

 

 

[Wishing on a star]

I will also point out that those who do not realize that, adjusted for the value of the dollar, they are NOT paying more.  Def. paying less than not so many years ago.   But the perception of "I am having something taken away from me" will persist.

[FLAlaska]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

The changes to the annual pass system also have been a big negative to many locals around the parks.  Disney has gone from a make a reasonable profit while providing the highest level of service and quality of the experience that they could to one of maximize profit while providing the minimum investment into the level of the experience.

At Disney, Chapeks view is clear. He isn’t interested in the daily, local guest who spends little or the small weekend warrior. He wants the guests that want the mega experience willing to pay the big money. That is his vision and has pretty much said that. 

Disneys changes have come at the expense of regular customer with simple examples such as limiting the best fireworks viewing to a pay system, same with parades. It’s not new offerings (which I don’t mind) it’s restructuring and eliminating included options. 

 

I booked Princess for February after a long time away. Mostly because I didn’t feel nickel and dimes, the prices were good and hate not a fan of the amusement parks at sea. I don’t mind seeing new decks created that come at a special costs but would hate to see it happen at the expense of the original offerings . We will see, I guess.

[HBCcruiser]

1 hour ago, Sea Hag said:

I would be fine with that, but my poor hubby would go berserk! 

😂😂 To be fair, these cabins are for solo cruisers only and provide access to a private studio lounge. Solo cruisers love them and they tend to sell out fast. 

 

Lounge:

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by HBCcruiser

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

     It can positively impact remaining passengers by supplementing their fare. Do you think Princess makes any money ( or very little) on an inside cabin? Without the higher priced cabins the fare would be much higher for lower category cabins. 

     When did it become a secret that money talks? All business' go after the most money to their bottom line and higher priced items and venues are more profitable.

  Is it any different that suites get included laundry and a mini bar?  My one day turn around for laundry probably effects those not in a suite to 2-3 day turn around. 

   Looking at the posted prices in a previous post I personally won't be paying those prices for a suite on a mass market line when I could go to Viking or Azamara or Oceania. 

They certainly have for years.  Princess gets between 25 to 28% of its revenue from on board spend (the portion of inclusive packages related to the inclusions are considered to be on board spend for accounting purposes). That percentage of revenue has actually gone up as the  sales of inclusive fares have increased.  So yes when calculated as a whole they do make some money on inside rooms.

 

The pattern shown with other lines have not indicated any reduction or even any pattern of slower price increases for inside rooms as lines have transitioned to ship within a ship concept.  The primary reason is because as with most pricing on cruise ships pricing power is somewhat limited and in each case the assets( the rooms) are priced in line with competition and at a level that maximizes revenue for the cruise line (to the limit of their pricing power) .  So the only reason one would expect any positive impact on fares would be if demand for them sufficiently dropped that the cruise lines would be forced to sell them at a reduced rate.

 

Cruise lines have always had limited pricing power due to competition from other travel, as well as competition from other cruise lines.

 

Certainly business make all kinds of decisions to maximize their profitability.  Just as when they make a fundamental change in their business model, such as going to a ship within a ship class model, their customers will also make their own decisions.  Mine is that I would rather spend more to cruise on a line that does not have that model, then to cruise on a mass market line trying to create the impression that it is premium for a subset of its customers on a very large ship.

 

Pretty much the entire travel industry has decided that they have pretty much unlimited pricing power at the luxury end of the market.  Rooms at hotels that were $300 pre-Covid are pricing at $900+ now.  Will be interesting to see how long that lasts.

 

If I find my value eroding on Princess as a result of these changes, lots of other travel choices.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

14 minutes ago, FLAlaska said:

At Disney, Chapeks view is clear. He isn’t interested in the daily, local guest who spends little or the small weekend warrior. He wants the guests that want the mega experience willing to pay the big money. That is his vision and has pretty much said that. 

Disneys changes have come at the expense of regular customer with simple examples such as limiting the best fireworks viewing to a pay system, same with parades. It’s not new offerings (which I don’t mind) it’s restructuring and eliminating included options. 

 

I booked Princess for February after a long time away. Mostly because I didn’t feel nickel and dimes, the prices were good and hate not a fan of the amusement parks at sea. I don’t mind seeing new decks created that come at a special costs but would hate to see it happen at the expense of the original offerings . We will see, I guess.

Used to spend some time at Animal Kingdom Lodge each year when traveling to Florida.  Looked at doing it next year.  Priced spending 4 nights and 5 days there and the total price for 2 including park tickets was $5382.12 (not including any airfare between CA and FL).  On the other hand  I can book a 12 day classic Africa tour, including game viewing cruise and drives in various areas for $5498.  Bye Bye Disney hello South Africa.

[oteixeira]

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

They certainly have for years.  Princess gets between 25 to 28% of its revenue from on board spend (the portion of inclusive packages related to the inclusions are considered to be on board spend for accounting purposes). That percentage of revenue has actually gone up as the  sales of inclusive fares have increased.  So yes when calculated as a whole they do make some money on inside rooms.

 

The pattern shown with other lines have not indicated any reduction or even any pattern of slower price increases for inside rooms as lines have transitioned to ship within a ship concept.  The primary reason is because as with most pricing on cruise ships pricing power is somewhat limited and in each case the assets( the rooms) are priced in line with competition and at a level that maximizes revenue for the cruise line.  So the only reason one would expect any positive impact on fares would be if demand for them sufficiently dropped that the cruise lines would be forced to sell them at a reduced rate.

 

Cruise lines have always had limited pricing power due to competition from other travel, as well as competition from other cruise lines.

 

Certainly business make all kinds of decisions to maximize their profitability.  Just as when they make a fundamental change in their business model, such as going to a ship within a ship class model, their customers will also make their own decisions.  Mine is that I would rather spend more to cruise on a line that does not have that model, then to cruise on a mass market line trying to create the impression that it is premium for a subset of its customers on a very large ship.

 

 

But you are missing the point.  Those of us who love ship within a ship love it because the luxury lines don't provide us with the entertainment, nightclubs, casino vibe, and tons of eating choices that the big ships do.  We choose to cruise this way because we love the big ships and what they offer, and also love to be able to go to a quiet area where they cater to our every need.  It is NOT the same product that the luxury lines small ships offer.  

[HBCcruiser]

Just now, oteixeira said:

But you are missing the point.  Those of us who love ship within a ship love it because the luxury lines don't provide us with the entertainment, nightclubs, casino vibe, and tons of eating choices that the big ships do.  We choose to cruise this way because we love the big ships and what they offer, and also love to be able to go to a quiet area where they cater to our every need.  It is NOT the same product that the luxury lines small ships offer.  

100% THIS☝️☝️

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

But you are missing the point.  Those of us who love ship within a ship love it because the luxury lines don't provide us with the entertainment, nightclubs, casino vibe, and tons of eating choices that the big ships do.  We choose to cruise this way because we love the big ships and what they offer, and also love to be able to go to a quiet area where they cater to our every need.  It is NOT the same product that the luxury lines small ships offer.  

Well enjoy the new pricing for your exclusive portion of the ship. Compared to the current systems where all of the passengers could pretty much access the same facilities, ala carte.  Will be interesting to see if that holds up under the new approach.

 

Kind of surprised you haven't been spending your travel dollars on the 5 lines that have already gone in that direction instead of one of the few main stream lines that has not.

Edited September 17, 2022 by ldtr

[Sea Hag]

32 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

😂😂 To be fair, these cabins are for solo cruisers only and provide access to a private studio lounge. Solo cruisers love them and they tend to sell out fast. 

 

Lounge:

 

 

 

I understand that. My hubby would go berserk in one of those by himself. He's claustrophic.

[oteixeira]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Well enjoy the new pricing for your exclusive portion of the ship. Compared to the current systems where all of the passengers could pretty much access the same facilities, ala carte.  Will be interesting to see if that holds up under the new approach.

 

Kind of surprised you haven't been spending your travel dollars on the 5 lines that have already gone in that direction instead of one of the few main stream lines that has not.

If you look at my signature you will see that I do.  I am in this thread because I am EXCITED that Princess is doing ship within a ship.  I wrote them off years ago for having dated, boring, and really run down ships when I sailed on the Grand.....this might be my way back in.  I am reading to see if the product has improved since I was on back in 2007.  

[HBCcruiser]

I wonder if Princess will be escorting the Signature Suite Pax onboard first like NCL and RCI (I’m guessing X too)?

[oteixeira]

2 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

I wonder if Princess will be escorting the Signature Suite Pax onboard first like NCL and RCI (I’m guessing X too)?

They just have to, priority embark and debark is one of the top perks of ship within a ship.

[sloopsailor]

9 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

They just have to, priority embark and debark is one of the top perks of ship within a ship.

 

And more reason to dislike ship within a ship concept. My regular fare isn't going down because the line is now catering to the big spenders. Instead, I am paying the same, or slightly more, to be forced to the back of the line behind those big spenders. I get zero positives, and many negatives, to this money grab. That is why we left Celebrity - we continually were treated as a lower priority, even though we paid our required fare. 

 

Just another example of the rich being treated better, and the average person being treated as a necessary evil. It's an old and tiresome story, one of which the rich on this thread are defending as if their enjoyment of their vacations depends entirely on it.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by sloopsailor

[oteixeira]

1 minute ago, sloopsailor said:

 

And more reason to dislike ship within a ship concept. My regular fare isn't going down because the line is now catering to the big spenders. Instead, I am paying the same, or slightly more, to be forced to the back of the line behind those big spenders. I get zero positives, and many negatives, to this money grab. That is why we left Celebrity - we continually were a lower priority, even though we paid our fare. 

 

Just another example of the rich being treated better, and the average person being barely an afterthought. It's an old and tiresome story that the rich on this thread are defending as if their enjoyment of their vacations depends entirely on it.  

Actually, they are boarded from a different area, in a different entrance, and go to a totally separate area.  They don't at all change the rest of boarding (which works just as it always did), they just get their own line and private area.  So in this way you are absolutely not portraying it as what it truly is.  I have done both ship within a ship and regular rooms on the same ship multiple times, it really has no effect on the regular room boarding.

[cruisingrob21]

2 hours ago, Highwaydude said:

After looking over the deck plans. I would assume that Deck 17 is now the Lido deck and from the layout it looks like the World Fresh Market place is no longer there. If my guess is right from looking at the photo of the ship, It is now going to be located on Deck 8 and in the rear section of the ship with outdoor eating options on both sides.  You can see the large glass wrap around deck there.  Which if correct is disappointing to me. I enjoy it up on the Lido deck.  Time will tell as they reveal more details. 

Possibly - I hadn't thought about that.  It could also be a forward world fresh marketplace on deck 17.  Or it could be aft on deck 18.  Either way, it looks to have an al fresco eating area on either side of it based on the images.

[richsea]

24 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

I wonder if Princess will be escorting the Signature Suite Pax onboard first like NCL and RCI (I’m guessing X too)?

When we first starting cruising back in 1996 on Celebrity, the did not escort you on the ship, but they did escort every passenger to their cabin, even us to our lowly inside room.