Is Holland America trying to drive away 4-star and above Mariners?

[Laminator]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:32 PM, oaktreerb said:

The 4* perks aren’t that great.  Without 4* cruisers HAL would not be able to continue to sail.  They are giving free rooms to casino players so who knows what their business model is going forward.   Maybe supervisors in the office need some customer service training.  A lot of staff are probably working from home.  The staff onboard are well trained in customer service but the land based support staff seem a bit apathetic.  A good  travel agent who books a lot of HAL cruises should be able to get your issue resolved to your satisfaction.  

There is a misconception about HAL giving away free cabins to casino players. That is not the case. Carnival casino pays HAL for those rooms. When I book a casino offer my PCC contacts the Carnival casino division. They take approximately 2 to 4 days to pay HAL for my cabin. That is when my booking shows as paid in full. I have no clue if this is a corporate strategy to attempt to prop up the brand or not but from HAL's side they are getting their money.

[Boatdrill]

It seems that the OP has sailed on. His/her posts are gone. 

[oaktreerb]

5 hours ago, Laminator said:

There is a misconception about HAL giving away free cabins to casino players. That is not the case. Carnival casino pays HAL for those rooms. When I book a casino offer my PCC contacts the Carnival casino division. They take approximately 2 to 4 days to pay HAL for my cabin. That is when my booking shows as paid in full. I have no clue if this is a corporate strategy to attempt to prop up the brand or not but from HAL's side they are getting their money.

Good to know!  I get frustrated when I read about free casino rooms, upsells, added benefits, etc.  

[Oceanwench]

1 hour ago, Boatdrill said:

It seems that the OP has sailed on. His/her posts are gone. 

I would go away too, frustrated at how people don't read the post and jump to conclusions.

 

There is always a lot of victim blaming on this board -- has been for years. That's why I have stayed away. Too much bullying.
But I have two cruises booked for 2022 on HAL, so I thought I'd visit and get up to speed on the changes. I haven't sailed on HAL since 2017, but I once sailed HAL exclusively and am a 4-star Mariner.

 

OP never mentioned "legal action." But suddenly that's a topic here.

OP is being chastised for not staying on top of her reservation. Read her own words:

 

"In January of this year we were able to book a transatlantic on the Rotterdam for 4/22.  We have our confirmation with our room number, showing paid in full."

 

She has the paperwork. Confirmation with cabin number, stating paid in full.
Why does she need to go online to see if that has changed?

Obviously HAL messed up. I've seen the cruise line do all sorts of things for passengers, even when it's not the line's fault. In this case, it is.
Maybe they should tell the people who are in the cabin OP booked that it was double-booked, then move them?
 

[Desdemona01]

On 11/18/2021 at 6:58 AM, KirkNC said:

Didn’t you or your TA get a cancellation notification when final payment was not made or in this case converted from FCC?

Absolutely not—neither of us did. Her HAL rep said it was a computer glitch and no “human” was involved… had I not tried to check on excursions neither of us would have known

[Desdemona01]

18 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Why was not your T/A monitoring you're booking??

What’s to monitor?  We both had confirmation from HAL showing our stateroom number and paid in full….

[Desdemona01]

18 hours ago, kazu said:

 

That’s what I am confused by.  I always hear from TA if she even SUSPECTS something will happen and right away if it’s cancelled.

 

Cancellations weren’t normal pre-covid but sadly they have been now -or ship changes - or itinerary changes, etc.

There was absolutely no indication that this had happened,  Even  during her initial contact with HAL, they could not explain it.

[kazu]

11 minutes ago, Desdemona01 said:

Absolutely not—neither of us did. Her HAL rep said it was a computer glitch and no “human” was involved… had I not tried to check on excursions neither of us would have known

 

Wow!  Thank heavens you went to check for your shore excursions.  Scary!

[Desdemona01]

17 hours ago, CHPURSER said:

About 10 years ago HAL did an internal study of onboard spending habits of Mariners Members, based on their Star Level.

Not surprisingly, the higher the Star Status, the lower the spending.

What was surprising was how very little the 4 and 5 Star Mariners spent on a daily basis.

The report was shown only to senior managers, then hidden away.

 

We need to remember that onboard spending comprises nearly 100% of HAL profits. In retrospect, this was probably not the best business plan for HAL.

 

Internal discussions since that time have been very consistent. It is true that HAL could not survive if they alienated ALL the 4 and 5 Star Mariners at the same time. But they will not survive if they are unable to SLOWLY replace the low spenders with new blood.

That’s what is happening now; alienate the frugal passengers slowly - one at a time - and replace them with new money.  

 

Unfortunately they picked the wrong ones to alienate. Our onboard spending has definitely gone up over the years.  But your post is extremely informative—thank you.

[Desdemona01]

14 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Having read the OP, something doesn't make sense. If your TA cruise is 4/22 final payment would not have been due until late Dec, so why would HAL cancel for non payment now?  If your travel agent can't fix this, you need to find a new one with enough stroke to get it fixed.

You still have to put down a deposit and they claim that the computer saw no payment at all since It didn’t recognize FCC as payment.

[Desdemona01]

14 hours ago, iancal said:

Even IF you get it fixed....is this a business that you want to deal with in the future?

Exactly 

[Desdemona01]

12 hours ago, nocl said:

A couple of questions:

Did you get paperwork from your TA or HAL when you initially made the reservation that showed that the FCC had been applied at the time the booking was made, basically leaving a zero balance?  I have always gotten that information whenever a payment has been applied for either HAL or their sister line Princess (they share many of the same back office systems).  If you did get the information showing zero balance and then the FCC went away then it certainly would be HALS fault but if not than maybe not.  Also keep in mind that FCC cannot usually be used for the port taxes and fees.  So even if FCC was used for the cruise you would still have to make that payment.

 

Were you actually on the phone with the HAL representative and your TA? Or are going going by what your TA said.

 

Did you TA actually cancel your existing room when the new room was agreed upon or at least make sure that it was canceled?  They certainly should have made sure that was done at the time the new room was agreed upon.

1) yes.  I have the HAL confirmation showing the entire room charges, minus port fees, were paid in full with my FCC.  The FCC on my account still had a credit balance due to the port charges we’d paid for the previously canceled booking.

2). Not sure what you’re asking.  HAL will not talk to me because I have a T/A.  She’s a high volume booker with HAL and they have someone who deals with her directly (neither of us are very happy with him right now)

3). There was no need to cancel our first room because HAL did it sometime between January and two weeks ago, and put the FCC back on our accounts. 

[Desdemona01]

12 hours ago, nocl said:

That is kind of interesting isn't it.  Almost sounds as if the FCC was never applied correctly and as a result the booking was canceled almost immediately.  The OP should have received an e-mail when the booking was made showing the properly credit.  Certainly the TA should have confirmed proper application of the credit. 

As stated previously, I have the booking confirmation from HAL showing the FCC was applied, paying stateroom charges in full. My Mariners account at that time showed a credit balance of the port charges we’d paid from two previously canceled, then rebooked, cruises.

[kazu]

25 minutes ago, Desdemona01 said:

Unfortunately they picked the wrong ones to alienate. Our onboard spending has definitely gone up over the years.  But your post is extremely informative—thank you.

 

We are the same.  Our on board spending is pretty hefty.  HAL should find a way to “mark” those that do spend well.  To paint all 4 and 5* Mariners with the same brush is a huge mistake.

[Desdemona01]

2 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

It seems that the OP has sailed on. His/her posts are gone. 

So sorry.  I do have a life, which included dealing with a migraine

[iancal]

We had a credit from TUI, Thomson for a Mexico AI stay in early 2020.  TUI are the largest travel firm in the world.  Annual turnover is just under $2 Billion GBP.  They operate tours, airlines, cruise ships, you name it. We often buy last minute AI's and hotels from them when we are traveling.

 

 We were advised immediately that it existed, that it had to be used by Oct. 2021 and that if we did not use it they would send us a refund.

 

We had a least five emails from TUI during the intervening period reminding us of that credit and how to use it.  Then a note saying the credit had expired.  Two weeks later a note saying a cheque was cut and on its way.   Ten days later a cheque arrived in our mail from the UK

 

We did not have to make one phone call, send one email.  The opposite was true...got tired of the credit note reminder emails.

 

Some business do know how to take care of customers and earn their future business.  All down to a first rate IT system and good management.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by iancal

[Desdemona01]

Update—.HAL “found” another room in the general vicinity of the previous two.  Of course, it’s a higher category so we had to pay an additional $$$$ to secure it,  and my T/A had to fight to get the booking package restored.  Still no acknowledgement from HAL so I expect 2022 will see us leaving them.  We will still write to corporate, sending all of the documentation, but I doubt that they care.  Thanks to everyone who offered helpful suggestions.

[canadianbear]

26 minutes ago, Desdemona01 said:

Update—.HAL “found” another room in the general vicinity of the previous two.  Of course, it’s a higher category so we had to pay an additional $$$$ to secure it,  and my T/A had to fight to get the booking package restored.  Still no acknowledgement from HAL so I expect 2022 will see us leaving them.  We will still write to corporate, sending all of the documentation, but I doubt that they care.  Thanks to everyone who offered helpful suggestions.

Such a hassle and I’d have a migraine for days with what you’ve had to go through.  I would hope that when you send all your proof to the HAL president office they would/should allow you to keep your original fare since it was HAL’s fault.  Good luck and please let us know if HAL finally makes this better for you. 
 

I have found the one time recently I sent an email about an issue the reply was positive and within 2 days: 
officeofthepresident@hollandamerica.com

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, Desdemona01 said:

Update—.HAL “found” another room in the general vicinity of the previous two.  Of course, it’s a higher category so we had to pay an additional $$$$ to secure it,  and my T/A had to fight to get the booking package restored.  Still no acknowledgement from HAL so I expect 2022 will see us leaving them.  We will still write to corporate, sending all of the documentation, but I doubt that they care.  Thanks to everyone who offered helpful suggestions.

We had an huge issue with HAL from  a canceled cruise last year that eventually our TA fixed but we decided to also leave HAL after 8 years of cruising with them exclusively. Our Oosterdam cruise next year, we booked as part of our resolution from last year, is our last.

 

We did a Celebrity cruise in August after a 10 year absence in their new Retreat Suite class and it was the absolute best cruising experience of any cruise in 25 years. We have 3 cruises booked with Celebrity, all in Sky Suites Retreat in their 2 newest ships for 2023 and 2024. That is a lot of revenue HAL will not see from us.  Going forward Celebrity and Oceania will be our cruise lines of choice. 

 

I am glad you got some resolution but I  too am appalled that they did not give you the upgrade at no extra cost after it was HAL's error that caused the problem. I hope you find another cruise line that takes care of you and that you book some excellent travel.

Edited November 19, 2021 by terrydtx

[kazu]

59 minutes ago, Desdemona01 said:

Update—.HAL “found” another room in the general vicinity of the previous two.  Of course, it’s a higher category so we had to pay an additional $$$$ to secure it,  and my T/A had to fight to get the booking package restored.  Still no acknowledgement from HAL so I expect 2022 will see us leaving them.  We will still write to corporate, sending all of the documentation, but I doubt that they care.  Thanks to everyone who offered helpful suggestions.

 

Somehow it doesn’t seem right to me that you have to pay additional dollars for an upgrade when HAL lost your room and booking.  JMO.

 

I would definitely write when you are in the mood.  A factual letter of the issues and see what happens.

I haven’t had to write in a very long time, but the last time I did, I found HAL responsive and their solution was equitable for me.

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

We are the same.  Our on board spending is pretty hefty.  HAL should find a way to “mark” those that do spend well.  To paint all 4 and 5* Mariners with the same brush is a huge mistake.

 

HAL does track accumulated onboard spending credits which I believe are in $300 increments, as one moves up the Mariner's ladder. Along with actual numbers of days sailed - check your online account. They used to announce these numbers at the medals ceremony for some reason, which were restricted to days actually sailed.

 

Then they stopped doing it. I remember a "gasp" in the audience when they announced ours - which was due only to our routine heavy spending on shore excursions and certainly not the numbers of days sailed.  We were surprised and embarrassed at this "spending" recognition and told the CD this must have been a mistake. This continued for several other cruises a few years back.  And then stopped. 

[Tampa Girl]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

HAL does track accumulated onboard spending credits which I believe are in $300 increments, as one moves up the Mariner's ladder. Along with actual numbers of days sailed - check your online account. They used to announce these numbers at the medals ceremony for some reason, which were restricted to days actually sailed.

 

Then they stopped doing it. I remember a "gasp" in the audience when they announced ours - which was due only to our routine heavy spending on shore excursions and certainly not the numbers of days sailed.  We were surprised and embarrassed at this "spending" recognition and told the CD this must have been a mistake. This continued for several other cruises a few years back.  And then stopped. 

 

They were still doing it on the Zaandam Antarctica cruise in January, 2020.  If I recall correctly, It was made clear that the number was actual sailing days.  

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, Desdemona01 said:

Absolutely not—neither of us did. Her HAL rep said it was a computer glitch and no “human” was involved… had I not tried to check on excursions neither of us would have known

Wow, unbelievable, amazing you didn’t show up at the pier 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Desdemona01 said:

1) yes.  I have the HAL confirmation showing the entire room charges, minus port fees, were paid in full with my FCC.  The FCC on my account still had a credit balance due to the port charges we’d paid for the previously canceled booking.

2). Not sure what you’re asking.  HAL will not talk to me because I have a T/A.  She’s a high volume booker with HAL and they have someone who deals with her directly (neither of us are very happy with him right now)

3). There was no need to cancel our first room because HAL did it sometime between January and two weeks ago, and put the FCC back on our accounts. 

Thank you for the responses.  If you have the receipt showing the payment then clearly the fault lies with them

 

I asked question number 2 because back when I used TA's there were a couple of time when I had an issue when the TA would tell me something, and I requested a three way call to discuss the issue with both the cruise line and the TA, that the story was considerably different when I got both of them on the line.  Basically the TA was telling me that it was all the cruise lines fault, when in fact they had not bothered to act on something that the cruise line sent them. After a couple of instances with different TA's I have stopped using TA's totally.  Any time you have a problem like you are having a 3 way call involving you, the TA and the cruise line a 3 way call at least gives you a chance to talk directly to the cruise line.  

 

Not sure about HAL but I know with other cruise lines there is a department that handles issues like this that normal customer service cannot handle effectively.  With Princess for example it is called the Resolutions Department (never had an issue rise to that level with HAL, but since they share a lot of the same back office they probably have a similar structure.  Unfortunately during the shutdown they laid off many of their more senior individuals.  I know an individual that used to be in that department for Princess.  Now they are hiring, but only bringing in people at a lower pay scale, so many of their experienced folks in both customer service and resolutions are gone for good. I expect HAL is the same.

 

My comment in question 3 was if they considered the new one a double booking then clearly there had to be another booking for you in the system, either from the original problem, or one made for the room they originally tried to give you. All of that should have been cleared out when an agreement was made between your TA and the cruise line.

[nocl]

12 hours ago, KirkNC said:

If you are waiting for the vaccinations requirements to go away, take a seat, it will be a while.  A long while I believe.

Looking at current decisions in EU countries not only will it be a while before they go away, but rules concerning the definition of being fully vaccinated are starting to change  and requiring on going boosters.