Harmony Just Caused Space X launch Cancellation

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Rayhorn said:

Just to be clear, the TFR boundaries that you posted are for aircraft and are totally different than the maritime exclusion zone for boats/ships. 

The red box is the maritime exclusion zone overlaid on an air navigation chart.

[Rayhorn]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The red box is the maritime exclusion zone overlaid on an air navigation chart.

Respectfully, it is not. Red area is TFR (temporary flight restriction) 2/8978 applicable to aircraft from surface to unlimited altitude. Orange area is TFR 2/9053 applicable to aircraft from surface to 18000 feet. The boundaries of the red box are different than the boundaries of the maritime exclusion zone. I have linked both the TFR and the MEZ below. 

https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_2_8978.html

https://www.patrick.spaceforce.mil/Portals/14/3%235 RS 31 Jan 22.pdf

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Rayhorn
Grammar

[Oceansaway17]

hmm first I heard of this story.  I did not see it on the Yahoo threads.

But sounds to me a big ship of paying passengers over rules at rocket with a couple of paying passengers.     I say good going Harmony.   ok Indy it is your turn next.  Also Disney ships go out of P Canaveral so let's get them in on the action too.

[dandee2]

48 minutes ago, Rayhorn said:

Just to be clear, the TFR boundaries that you posted are for aircraft and are totally different than the maritime exclusion zone for boats/ships. 

I get that, But i do not have the link for the maritime one. I'm a pilot.

 

[dandee2]

42 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The red box is the maritime exclusion zone overlaid on an air navigation chart.

And not an official FAA publication.

[Rayhorn]

23 minutes ago, dandee2 said:

I get that, But i do not have the link for the maritime one. I'm a pilot.

 

I figured you did. That was more for those who might not understand what they are looking at. Ex airline pilot here. 🙂

 

I linked the official maritime one above if you’re curious. 

[coaster]

Looks like the first credible source naming Harmony as the ship involved.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coast-guard-starts-investigation-royal-191328475.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADXq7eLUuZqxP6Y6bhwkJkfYYoGxk0ZtNABuhLkGCIKBDK3m8rvs1ertLQQpv-xbIhlB_22ZNeRGdrSYMSfJ8r5a4R0LFSDvVFmrKJXZ9XkKW1fSAZYnIl7sIzuLftTxZY7hFP5sLxyFIj0A_L0Y0TxWwVexoHZ670K1sZFtxNow

[Husky1987]

2 minutes ago, coaster said:

Looks like the first credible source naming Harmony as the ship involved.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coast-guard-starts-investigation-royal-191328475.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADXq7eLUuZqxP6Y6bhwkJkfYYoGxk0ZtNABuhLkGCIKBDK3m8rvs1ertLQQpv-xbIhlB_22ZNeRGdrSYMSfJ8r5a4R0LFSDvVFmrKJXZ9XkKW1fSAZYnIl7sIzuLftTxZY7hFP5sLxyFIj0A_L0Y0TxWwVexoHZ670K1sZFtxNow

Always pays to add in a little last-paragraph cruise advertisement.

[kelleherdl]

52 minutes ago, coaster said:

Looks like the first credible source naming Harmony as the ship involved.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coast-guard-starts-investigation-royal-191328475.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADXq7eLUuZqxP6Y6bhwkJkfYYoGxk0ZtNABuhLkGCIKBDK3m8rvs1ertLQQpv-xbIhlB_22ZNeRGdrSYMSfJ8r5a4R0LFSDvVFmrKJXZ9XkKW1fSAZYnIl7sIzuLftTxZY7hFP5sLxyFIj0A_L0Y0TxWwVexoHZ670K1sZFtxNow

I wouldn’t normally call Florida Today a credible source, but they were quoting the USCG spokesperson.  So I guess we wait to see the inquiry.

 

 

[chengkp75]

If you go here:  https://cgmix.uscg.mil/IIR/IIRSearch.aspx, and search for Harmony of the Seas, any investigation report will show up here, eventually.

[flczr]

Ships exiting the harbor are escorted by a sheriff’s patrol boat. Weren’t they monitoring Chanel 16? Why didn’t USCG try to raise the ship on 16? I don’t think Harmony is entirely to blame.  

[coaster]

I know Carnival  established a 24 hour central Fleet Operations Center back in 2018 to track all of their ships. Just thinking a setup like this on Royal's side could of prevented a ship going into a restricted zone.

[coaster]

54 minutes ago, flczr said:

Ships exiting the harbor are escorted by a sheriff’s patrol boat. Weren’t they monitoring Chanel 16? Why didn’t USCG try to raise the ship on 16? I don’t think Harmony is entirely to blame.  

Sure the Chief here has an opinion on this. Sheriff's patrol boat and USCG  monitoring and relaying risk factors to the Captain of a cruise ship? 

Edited January 31, 2022 by coaster

[wayne_trisha]

4 hours ago, dandee2 said:

pretty Clear on the NOTAM

The air and sea hazard areas are similar but not the same. Nice to see both of my maps in this discussion. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, flczr said:

Ships exiting the harbor are escorted by a sheriff’s patrol boat. Weren’t they monitoring Chanel 16? Why didn’t USCG try to raise the ship on 16? I don’t think Harmony is entirely to blame.  

 

12 minutes ago, coaster said:

Sure the Chief here has an opinion on this. Sheriff's patrol boat and USCG  monitoring and relaying risk factors to the Captain of a cruise ship? 

Sheriff's boat has no jurisdiction past the jetties.  USCG does not have a VTS (vessel tracking service) in the Miami area, so they would not be tracking vessels like air traffic control does.  Not sure if there were cutters out patrolling the area.  It is not that the USCG would be "relaying risk factors" to the Captain, but if a cutter determined that the ship was inside the zone, they should have been calling on 16 and telling them to get out.  It is not a matter of "risk factor", that exclusion zone is a matter of law, and violation can lead to fines, as I've said earlier, up to $250k.  As a law enforcement agency, the USCG has every right to notify the Captain of a vessel that he is in violation of a regulation.

[flamingos]

No ships tonight: she's up!

[F27TW]

21 hours ago, matj2000 said:

How many threads can we start on this one??

 

Agree ... and so many experts here on CC deciding who's at fault and should be fined.  LOL

[kelleherdl]

Sonic boom from the Falcon booster landing just hit our house.  I have been watching launches from the late 50’s.  This was one of the most beautiful ones I’ve ever witnessed.  The passengers on Meraviglia and Harmony OTS missed a doozie.

 

 

[Baron Barracuda]

No sympathy for Space X here.  Several years ago was flying from EWR to FLL on a Saturday morning ahead of a Sunday sailing.  Arrived at airport to discover all flights from the Northeast to south Florida were on hold due to anticipated Space X launch.  Launch was delayed, delayed, delayed and after 3 1/2 hours finally scrubbed.  Didn't arrive in MIA until almost 4pm and watched lots of folks with Carnival & Royal luggage tags desperately racing through airport.  Not sure if they all made their ships.  

[coaster]

Thank you Chief for your take on this event. You are the most experienced, respected and creditable member here when it comes to maritime matters without any bias. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by coaster

[coaster]

4 hours ago, Oceansaway17 said:

hmm first I heard of this story.  I did not see it on the Yahoo threads.

But sounds to me a big ship of paying passengers over rules at rocket with a couple of paying passengers.     I say good going Harmony.   ok Indy it is your turn next.  Also Disney ships go out of P Canaveral so let's get in on the action too.

You really believe a ship takes priority over a scheduled rocket launch? Harmony is ok after ignoring and entering a restricted zone but it could of been bad if the launch went wrong and fuel tanks fell on the ship.

Edited January 31, 2022 by coaster

[Biker19]

21 minutes ago, kelleherdl said:

The passengers on Meraviglia and Harmony OTS missed a doozie.

Enchantment was still in port. 

[sjb317]

52 minutes ago, kelleherdl said:

Sonic boom from the Falcon booster landing just hit our house.  I have been watching launches from the late 50’s.  This was one of the most beautiful ones I’ve ever witnessed.  The passengers on Meraviglia and Harmony OTS missed a doozie.

 

 

You’re right, I think this was one of the best launches we have seen.  Amazing!
 

Sherri🙂

[livingonthebeach]

The Coast Guard has just started an investigation of the incident:

https://news.yahoo.com/coast-guard-starts-investigation-royal-191328475.html

 

""We ask that all pilots and mariners double-check their Notices to Airmen (NOTAM) and Notices to Mariners (NOTMAR) to ensure they are fully aware of all pending launch activities in this historic month on the Space Coast," 

Edited February 1, 2022 by livingonthebeach

[BirdTravels]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There are also possible proceedings against the Captain's license, if this is shown to be a willful violation.

Regardless of a finding of willful violation, time for a Captain to "retire".