What Bucket List Item Failed to Live Up to Expectations?

[leavesofapple]

On 5/13/2022 at 8:57 PM, ldubs said:

 

If things go according to plans, we will visit The Last Supper in Milan later this year.  Apparently they limit viewing to small groups of 15.  Hopefully that will improve the experience.  

 

I"ve been talking to Mrs Ldubs about one of these days visiting Waterloo because of what happened there.  I suspect it will be pretty disappointing.   But I would still would like to just be where it all happened I guess.   

You get only a short time with The Last Supper  (10-15 minutes if I remember correctly) but with the small group it is enough for a good look. And the monastery in itself is a beautiful and quiet place. 
 

We did Waterloo with a group and a guide. If you’ re not an expert yourself I think a good guide is important. The Museum was recently updated and interesting. We arrived back at the bus at the very last minute. 

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, capriccio said:

Answers to your questions, as best as I can remember 12 years later 😄 are in red. 

 

I appreciate answering my questions.  Thank you.

 

My crocodile hunting tour was somewhat different from yours.  We sailed from the dock on a larger boat (50 people sounds right); got to a landing where we then entered the canoes (10 people sounds right); no guided tour at the landing and no dinner; the guide that caught the small crocs stayed in the canoe while the driver pulled close to the shore so that the animals could be caught.  We returned to where we started, left the canoe, and boarded the boat returned us to the dock where Royal Princess was docked.  I was on a canoe with a better driver and guide.  My guy caught two of them while others were in canoe's that saw the eyes of one or two, but, their guides did not catch any.  

 

I regret missing the Piranha fishing tour.  (All due to the lazy Brazilian Immigration Officers.)  It would be a really special photo for me holding a Piranha that I had caught.

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, leavesofapple said:

You get only a short time with The Last Supper  (10-15 minutes if I remember correctly) but with the small group it is enough for a good look. And the monastery in itself is a beautiful and quiet place. 
 

We did Waterloo with a group and a guide. If you’ re not an expert yourself I think a good guide is important. The Museum was recently updated and interesting. We arrived back at the bus at the very last minute. 

 

Thanks for the info -- much appreciated.  

[rkacruiser]

I am thankful that I was able to view Michelangelo's Pieta in New York during the World's Fair in 1964.  It was so magnificently and beautifully displayed in the Vatican Pavilion.  Seeing it at St. Peter's, the sculpture was still an important highlight for me when I visited Rome, but, because of its protective cover and different lighting and the crowds in front of it, it would have been a bucket list disappointment if I had not seen it in New York.  

[capriccio]

8 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

I am thankful that I was able to view Michelangelo's Pieta in New York during the World's Fair in 1964.  It was so magnificently and beautifully displayed in the Vatican Pavilion.  Seeing it at St. Peter's, the sculpture was still an important highlight for me when I visited Rome, but, because of its protective cover and different lighting and the crowds in front of it, it would have been a bucket list disappointment if I had not seen it in New York.  

Our two children were born in Rome and the oldest was actually baptized in St. Peters.  When she was a toddler we would go to the Square and she would chase the pigeons but showed no interest in entering the building..  When she was 3 1/2 and we would be leaving Rome in a couple of months I asked if she wanted to go inside and see all the beautiful decorations.  She replied in the affirmative, I repeated the rules of expected behavior, and up the stairs we went and turned right towards the Pieta as we entered.  There was a small group of tourists (this was in 1986 - there are never small groups inside now) admiring the statue and speaking quietly amongst themselves.  We were whispering too until she said, in a loud 3 year old's voice, "But why is that man naked?"  I was mortified and repeated "inside voice" while the tourists - who were a Canadian tour group understanding her comment perfectly - started laughing.  Our art history lesson was cut short.  She went back on her own at the age of 20 when living in London and told us she had used her inside voice with her friends and much appreciated the beauty of the statue. 

[cruisemom42]

7 hours ago, capriccio said:

We were whispering too until she said, in a loud 3 year old's voice, "But why is that man naked?"  I was mortified and repeated "inside voice" while the tourists - who were a Canadian tour group understanding her comment perfectly - started laughing.  Our art history lesson was cut short.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I had forgotten that when we took 6-year-old DS to Rome, he just couldn't get over all the "naked" statues!

[ilikeanswers]

I haven't had a bucket list destination disappoint me, but my bucket list is pretty selective 😜. Since I didn't travel pre crowds I don't have that nostalgia. Cowds at tourists sites are the only normal I know😂. In saying that I have had three famous places disappoint me. One was Bled in Slovenia, overly touristified as if locals didn't even live there on top of that prices were 10x higher than in the rest of Slovenia and it didn't feel like 10x the value. The other was Poas crater in Costa Rica. It was one of those moments where you find yourself thinking, is this it? The other destination was New York City. I had friends who talked it up so I probably went in with too high an expectation and it just wasn't for me in the end. 

 

Most destinations I'm probably more "meh". I'm not disappointed but I'm not blown away. I go in with a lot of curiosity so for me seeing sights in real life is part of the joy travelling even if those sights aren't particularly amazing or maybe disappointing I'm still happy to have that experience. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[rkacruiser]

15 hours ago, capriccio said:

We were whispering too until she said, in a loud 3 year old's voice, "But why is that man naked?"  I was mortified and repeated "inside voice" while the tourists - who were a Canadian tour group understanding her comment perfectly - started laughing.  Our art history lesson was cut short

 

A wonderful story!  Thank you for sharing it with us.  

[mnocket]

On 5/13/2022 at 12:47 PM, ldubs said:

This is one that might normally be thought to be not worthwhile.  For us it was just the opposite of a disappointment for any number of reasons.  

 

 

How in the world did you manage to get there when it wasn't overrun with people?  I didn't think that was possible😉

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, mnocket said:

How in the world did you manage to get there when it wasn't overrun with people?  I didn't think that was possible😉

 

Oh, that is just a stock photo I posted.  When we were there, I would say there were maybe 6 to 8 others.   If memory serves, seems there was someone offering to take pics for a fee.   I kind of felt sorry for the vehicles that had to wait for us to cross back and forth several times.  Haha. 

[bbwex]

I think one needs to keep an open mind, and you find some of the most fascinating things when you were not even looking for them.

 

In Berlin we were having a fairly boring tour when we happened to find ourselves outside the Pergamon Museum.  Inside they have the Ishtar Gate and Pergamon Altar among many other incredible pieces.  The place was a true find we were not looking for at all.

 

In Rome, our guide took us to a small restaurant and after lunch we went down into the basement which was part of the government complex when Caesar was in power.  Certainly the Colosseum was incredible, but this too was a memorable moment.

 

That's the thing about traveling, you stumble upon some of the world's really fascinating things when you least expect them!!

[herbanrenewal]

I thought Venice was greatly overrated. Hot, muggy, stinky, super crowded, expensive. Rooms smelled moldy. Cruising out of the Grand Canal was the only part I actually felt lived up to the hype but you cant do that anymore.

[Essiesmom]

40 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

I thought Venice was greatly overrated. Hot, muggy, stinky, super crowded, expensive. Rooms smelled moldy. Cruising out of the Grand Canal was the only part I actually felt lived up to the hype but you cant do that anymore.

But you didn’t cruise out of the Grand Canal, unless you were in a vaporetto or gondola.  You cruised down the Giudecca Canal.  EM

[cruisemom42]

22 hours ago, bbwex said:

I think one needs to keep an open mind, and you find some of the most fascinating things when you were not even looking for them.

 

In Berlin we were having a fairly boring tour when we happened to find ourselves outside the Pergamon Museum.  Inside they have the Ishtar Gate and Pergamon Altar among many other incredible pieces.  The place was a true find we were not looking for at all.

 

In Rome, our guide took us to a small restaurant and after lunch we went down into the basement which was part of the government complex when Caesar was in power.  Certainly the Colosseum was incredible, but this too was a memorable moment.

 

That's the thing about traveling, you stumble upon some of the world's really fascinating things when you least expect them!!

 

I would agree with this to a certain extent, but as an intensive planner, I would also like to think that in my planning I'd have discovered many of these places and would've made plans to visit/see them. From long experience I know what things tend to appeal to me and I target cities and locations where I'm likely to find them.

 

The Pergamon museum has been on my list for years, ever since I visited the actual Pergamon site in Turkey back in 2008. Unfortunately the museum was closed for several long years for renovation and in fact I'm not sure it's completely open even now.

 

Nothing would be worse to me than discovering that I missed an opportunity to see something like that museum when I have such an interest in classical history. Second worst would be stumbling on something in the course of a day tour or ramble and not having enough time to see it because of already having planned out my day with other visits/commitments.  That's why I do my research for many months before.

 

The restaurant example is somewhat serendipity, I agree, but I also keep a running list of mentions of restaurants (or other places) such as that and then seek them out next time I visit. 😄

Edited May 19, 2022 by cruisemom42

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, herbanrenewal said:

I thought Venice was greatly overrated. Hot, muggy, stinky, super crowded, expensive. Rooms smelled moldy. Cruising out of the Grand Canal was the only part I actually felt lived up to the hype but you cant do that anymore.

I do not think you understood what you were doing (or seeing)  - no cruise ship has ever entered the Grand Canal (unless, perhaps, you would call Marco Polo's departure for Acre a "cruise").

[herbanrenewal]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I do not think you understood what you were doing (or seeing)  - no cruise ship has ever entered the Grand Canal (unless, perhaps, you would call Marco Polo's departure for Acre a "cruise").

actually i was just using the description of the sail-away location from the cruise several years ago - funny that the only thing i thought was worth seeing was sailing away from Venice - which was my point. Venice was disappointing and the only part that lived up to the bucket list hype was sailing away!

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

Since the Mona Lisa has been referenced so much, let me ask you folks something.  I've always been curious about whether people genuinely like it all that much or if it's just a fascination for the fact that it is arguably the most famous painting (and undoubtedly worth a ton).  For my part, if I owned it, I wouldn't hang it on my wall.  On the other hand, I'd give up a billion dollars to hang The Starry Night if I had that kind of money.

 

 

Often just fame - for whatever reason - confers preference.  I agree about not being personally struck by the Mona Lisa - finding Gainsborough ‘s “Daughters Chasing a Butterfly”  closer to my ideal.  Then, of course, hype does wonders in creating art appreciation — Warhol’s Marilyn certainly seems to be winning a top position —- although I am inclined to think that later generations will scoff at today’s valuation of that cartoon.

 

Art critics and dealers have strong motives for talking up current works - commissions on sales can be awesome.

Edited May 20, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[herbanrenewal]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Often just fame - for whatever reason - confers preference.  I agree about not being personally struck ...

I remember the first time i saw Botticelli's Birth of Venus I thought it was pretty mediocre and Malevich's White on White in MOMA leaves me blank. Musee de L'orangerie in Paris was a bust for me because I thought most of Monet's Water Lilies exhibit was boring 

I've decided  art experts are like wine connoisseurs. I'll never understand it so i stick to what I like

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, herbanrenewal said:

I remember the first time i saw Botticelli's Birth of Venus I thought it was pretty mediocre and Malevich's White on White in MOMA leaves me blank. Musee de L'orangerie in Paris was a bust for me because I thought most of Monet's Water Lilies exhibit was boring 

I've decided  art experts are like wine connoisseurs. I'll never understand it so i stick to what I like

Yes, I'll stick to what I like is good advice.

 

My DW is an art teacher, and I have really grown to appreciate much art. However, there are exceptions. For instance, for the life of me I can not see what there is to like about paintings by Jackson Pollack. One of the ports on our very first cruise was Valletta, Malta. She had us go to a church where there was a famous painting she had to see, The Beheading of St. John the Baptist by Caravaggio. She of course loved it; I had nightmares about it!

[capriccio]

1 hour ago, herbanrenewal said:

I've decided  art experts are like wine connoisseurs. I'll never understand it so i stick to what I like

You don't need to be an art expert but it helps to have an interest in the subject (the work of art, the time period, the artist, etc.).

 

We lived in Italy for a year when my DH had a Fulbright Fellowship which meant great opportunities but very little money.  In college we had taken lots of history classes (he was working on a PhD in history) but no art history.  Given that our favorite free sightseeing was churches (there are over 400 in Rome) and museums (on their monthly free day), I decided I had to rectify that.  If I am going somewhere with famous works I do a little bit of research ahead of time.   I discovered that knowing something about the history of the time period and the artist, and the specific work made viewing art (which is everywhere in Italy) much more enjoyable. 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

…

 

Now I think all assets are currently way overvalued including art so it may suffer a decline …. But this particular painting (eyesore that it may be) has a lot going for it from a valuation perspective.  It is probably Warhol's most famous work (with only the soup cans even probably in contention).  It is a Warhol and though I'm not much of a fan, the art world seems to have established that he is the Van Gogh/Picasso of his generation. 

 

…

The fact remains that the value of Warhol’s work is largely the result of his wide acceptance by TODAY’S experts.  Any competent cartoonist of any future generation could tear off acres of similar canvasses - while the works of the old masters are a hell of a lot harder to replicate. It will take a few generations to see how much lasting value much of this century’s works will retain.

[Essiesmom]

I have always wanted to travel, to see the places or things I was reading about.  I wanted to be able to visualize them if they came up again in my reading.  I love old things.  Architecture and culture.  When I lived in Germany I drove around looking for old castles.  I had a boyfriend that liked the same thing, and we had a map that showed castles and ruins.  I think the less that remained, the better we liked it. 
    In college, I took an art history course, and the instructor showed a lot of slides, many of them in Europe.  Churches, mosaics, etc.  when I was in Germany the rec center had cheap weekend tours, and I realized I could actually visit some of those places.  And that was when I realized that when I traveled, I wanted to visit places that were different from my background.  I developed a list of features required:  they don’t use the same alphabet, don’t use the same kind of toilet, and you can’t drink the water.  
  But I also realized that when I visit museums I want them to be about the place I am in, not full of antiquities looted from other locations.  And art is not big for me.  Most of the old masters leave me cold, unless they illustrate period living.  EM

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

I couldn't agree with you more and the only thing that surprises me is how often people take offense to that kind of talk.

 

 

 

Agreed.  But that is the same with most artists lie Pasquiat, Pollack, Picasso, Monet and most all impressionists and post impressionists with the exception of Van Gogh (whom I considered to be the most fascinating figure in the history of mankind).  In fact, it's perfectly consistent with your premise of fame attracting attention and preference and no one is even in the ballpark of being as famous as Warhol during his generation.  Just because you hate it (and I'm not a fan either) doesn't mean that future generations will.  I hate most of Monet's stuff but he is considered a "master" and will surely forever be.

 

 

 

Thank you for agreeing with me about Jackson Pollack, but I'll have to disagree about Monet. But, that's ok as much of appreciating art is personal and subjective.

 

And my favorite artist, and the same for DW, is Van Gogh.

[cruisemom42]

17 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

Since the Mona Lisa has been referenced so much, let me ask you folks something.  I've always been curious about whether people genuinely like it all that much or if it's just a fascination for the fact that it is arguably the most famous painting (and undoubtedly worth a ton).  For my part, if I owned it, I wouldn't hang it on my wall.  On the other hand, I'd give up a billion dollars to hang The Starry Night if I had that kind of money.

 

 

 

I'm not an art history major by any means but I come from a family that has always appreciated art, enjoyed museum visits, etc. I'd also say that I believe in the idea that peoples' likes, dislikes, ideas, etc. evolve over time if one keeps an open mind.

 

The book in your avatar is a good example. When I read it at age 16 or so, I had a totally different opinion of it than when I read it again around age 40. Why?  At age 16 I was still self-centered and found it difficult to understand and relate to the characters, thinking the whole thing very contrived. Second time I had a much deeper understanding of the world and was able to grasp the nuances I missed the first time.

 

I was about the same age (16) when I first saw the Mona Lisa. Again, it was just a famous picture, hard to relate to. But since then I have understood so much more about it. How the Renaissance painters basically had to rediscover painting techniques like perspective, light and shadow, etc. that were known in antiquity but lost. How masters like Michelangelo, Da Vinci and Raphael studied the Greek and Roman sculpture and frescoes and learned from them. How Da Vinci differed from his colleagues in needing to understand how people's musculature looked, how they moved, in order to paint more realistically. How he arrived at a unique style by avoiding the harder painted outlines most other painters used in portraits in favor of a less defined edge that gives a sense of movement and realism to his portraits. In short I now find Da Vinci's work unrivaled and his (few) paintings to be masterpieces. Yes, I'd hang it on my wall -- I could study it infinitely. (And it's not necessarily even my favorite painting of his, but arguably one of his most finished works...)

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

All of that is fine and maybe that's how your mind is wired.  But at the end of the day, at least for me, a painting needs to stand on its own and either captivate me or not.  There are no doubt literally thousand if not millions of paintings that I would enjoy looking at more than the Mona Lisa.  I'm sure that will never change.  Personally, I can't think of too many things, or even one thing, related to art where I've changed my mind or perspective. 

 

As others have stated, if I like it, then I like it regardless of the back drop or whatever else someone feels about it.  I've always loved Fitzgerald's novels (and he is the second most fascinating person for me in the history of mankind).  I've always liked Van Gogh and I've never like the Mona Lisa.  I have uber respect and admiration for DaVinci, but not the Mona Lisa.  And we can never know this but if it wasn't DaVinci who painted it, I'm fairly certain it would have long been lost to ravages of time.

 

 

 

Each to his/her own. I'm not one who "likes what I like" and never changes, grows or expands my understanding and tastes.